All discussion of Nikola Motors

[Right_Said_Fred]

... the vehicle that Nikola names the "Badger" and which GM engineers, validates, builds, services, and sells?

Finally the name Badger makes sense. GM builds it and then Nikola puts its badge on it...

 

[smorgasbord]

Securities Act of 1933
"Often referred to as the "truth in securities" law, the Securities Act of 1933 has two basic objectives:

• require that investors receive financial and other significant information concerning securities being offered for public sale; and
• prohibit deceit, misrepresentations, and other fraud in the sale of securities."

If you claim to have working mass product semi truck design, when actually you don't have anything but non-function compressed natural gas prototype, is not just misrepresentations, it is deceit. Later build prototypes doesn't change that deceit

Selling stock and calming to be fuel-cell vehicle manufacturer, when you don't have any actual IP of such technology is a scam.

OK, but where is the decit? The video says: “Behold, the 1,000 HP, zero-emission Nikola One semi-truck in motion.”

That was technically true.

 

[kbM3]

Here in Silicon Valley we call it "Fake it until you make it."

One might say worse about Elon's unveiling of the Solar City Solar Roof Tiles, which was reported to be fake tiles on a movie set, and used that to convince investors to approve the merger deal.

And in response to a previous poster, it took years for the tiles to become available.

TDIL that Elon faked Zip2, PayPal and SpaceX before he made it with Tesla.

And no the Solar Roof demonstration was in no way comparable, but thanks for playing. In order to be equivalent, Elon would have had to state the Roofs were currently generating power and shown fake power meters that were hooked to some other power supply.

Does that clear up your confusion on the point?

 

[Stretch2727]

Besides the potential legal issues he has created for himself how do you deal with Trevor as a partner. I don't see how GM could trust him to execute marketing/service/sales of the pickup or manufacturing the semi. Even with contracts there is always a large amount of trust that is part of these relationships. My prediction is he is out in a month. Nikola may live on somehow but I really think he is done.

 

[Boomer19]

in a nutshell - last few years.

“we’re vertically integrated”
”everything is our IP...
except the stuff bosch makes
we’ll make our own batteries.
we’ve designed our own cell tech.
we can just go buy batteries from someone else, not worth it for us to do it.
we make our own inverters, it’s all our IP
we have a breakthrough in batteries. game changer.
we have a breakthrough in CNG. actually we’re using LNG, nope, we’re using CNG.
we have nat gas wells on HQ property.
hydrogen is where it’s at. fuel cells.
we make hydrogen at our HQ now, largest hydrogen production in the world. cheapest too. we won’t sell it to anyone.
trucks will come with batteries. can swap out to fuel cells any time.
IP is ours and kept in house.
here’s our off road vehicle the world has been waiting for. all our ip and design.
it’s made by guys that quit polaris.
gm is going to make everything, well put our sticker on it.”


it’s manic.
he’s manic.
cringeworthy every single time he takes the mic or the keyboard

Mary Barra looked uncomfortable during the cnbc interview.
i get it, risk free money for gm...basically. they fleece a company knocking on deaths door to take whatever scraps they can. they won’t get 2b when said and done, unless they are able to receive and dump the shares with no timeframe limitation or restriction (meaning they sold already) which i don’t think is case.

is GM that screwed they have to deal with Nkla? crude or shrewd or not, and even if GM gets lucky and secures ~25% of the deal by the time its over, is a few hundred million dollars of sweat-free cash going to matter that much to GM?
is it worth going through this shell game and subjecting yourself to these optics for that? makes you wonder what the hell is going on there.

as for just about everything that TM says...how is this happening?
and its being allowed to continue? it’s unbelievable!

he sells out and buys/builds the most expensive property in Utah haahha, so cliche.

there has to be something wrong with him
sociopath or something ...
he’s surely a pathological liar that much is clear

 

[JRP3]

I don't know why Milton felt the need to lie about that.

It's the only thing he's good at.

 

[JRP3]

OK, but where is the decit? The video says: “Behold, the 1,000 HP, zero-emission Nikola One semi-truck in motion.”

That was technically true.

Not the 1,000 HP part since it couldn't move under it's own power. Maybe he meant to say "Zero HP".

 

[Doggydogworld]

And no the Solar Roof demonstration was in no way comparable, but thanks for playing.

"The houses you see around you are all solar houses"

They weren't.

Two years later: "We now have several hundred homes with solar roofs on them".

Tesla later "clarified" that this included homes scheduled for install. Reuters reported there were actually about a dozen solar roofs in existence.

 

[Yuri_G]

"The houses you see around you are all solar houses"

They weren't.

Two years later: "We now have several hundred homes with solar roofs on them".

Tesla later "clarified" that this included homes scheduled for install. Reuters reported there were actually about a dozen solar roofs in existence.

So we should give Nikola the benefit of the doubt because one of Tesla's products took longer than expected to come to fruition? There's a difference between being overly optimistic and a pathological liar. If you can't see that, enjoy your Nikola investment.

 

[JRP3]

"The houses you see around you are all solar houses"

They weren't.

They weren't really houses either.

 

[JohnSnowNW]

My prediction is he is out in a month. Nikola may live on somehow but I really think he is done.

According to their prospectus:

We are highly dependent on the services of Trevor R. Milton, our Executive Chairman.

We are highly dependent on the services of Trevor R. Milton, our Executive Chairman, and largest stockholder. Mr. Milton is the source of many, if not most, of the ideas and execution driving Nikola. If Mr. Milton were to discontinue his service to us due to death, disability or any other reason, we would be significantly disadvantaged.

Prospectus

Honestly, I find this pretty humorous.



Their company summary is also pretty funny in light of the GM deal:

We are a vertically integrated zero-emissions transportation solution provider that designs and manufactures state-of-the-art battery-electric and hydrogen fuel cell electric vehicles, electric vehicle drivetrains, energy storage systems, and hydrogen fueling stations. Our core product offering is centered around our battery-electric vehicle ("BEV") and hydrogen fuel cell electric vehicle ("FCEV") Class 8 semi-trucks.

 

[heltok]

A few videos by TM:
Twitter
Twitter
Twitter

 

[JRP3]

Trevor Meltdown

 

[Fred42]

Did you notice that if you want to coast downhill in your car or truck you put the gear selector in N for Nikola? Someone was prescient decades ago.

 

[smorgasbord]

Well, it was 2.5 years between the truck rolling down hill and that ride along.

LA Times Oct, 2016: Elon Musk wants to sell people solar roofs that look great. Here's his much anticipated design
"Musk said the company would roll out the solar shingles by summer, starting in California, the largest U.S. solar market."

No, that didn't happen. Took, what, 3 years, and even then the product wasn't good enough?

Rive all but bet the announcement would trigger growth in SolarCity sales as the company lures homeowners off the sidelines with its new design. “I’m expecting to increase dramatically in Q4.”

No, that didn't happen. Matter of fact, Tesla wound down the Solar City business after the merger.

TDIL that Elon faked Zip2, PayPal and SpaceX before he made it with Tesla.

And no the Solar Roof demonstration was in no way comparable, but thanks for playing. In order to be equivalent, Elon would have had to state the Roofs were currently generating power and shown fake power meters that were hooked to some other power supply.

Does that clear up your confusion on the point?

Remember the Fast Company article: Inside “Steel Pulse,” The Project That Became Elon Musk’s Solar Roof

Shortly before sunset, Musk appeared onstage in front of a crowd of several hundred to make his big reveal. “The houses you see around you are all solar houses. Did you notice?” he said, gesturing toward the homes with a grin. They appeared to have regular shingled rooftops, but Musk said they’d actually been retrofitted with a new product called the Solar Roof, a potentially transformative system that’s nearly indistinguishable from a traditional rooftop—and one, he promised, that lasts longer and costs less, all while generating electricity. “Why would you buy anything else?” he said. The crowd cheered.

and

“There’s a reason that they announced the idea on a fake block in a fake neighborhood with fake houses!”) A well-connected source explains, “Basically, from August to October, it was more about getting the thing to look right, and then from October until now, it’s really about getting the thing to work. This is just how Tesla does things.

Still, the company does acknowledge that the demos Musk unveiled at Universal Studios were not functional.

That acknowledgement came 8 months later.

Your analogy requiring fake power meters isn't proper. The video commercial Nikola showed did not show current coming out of a battery or fuel cell. There was nothing said or overlaid on the images stating the vehicle was driving under its own power, just that it was 'in motion," which it technically was.


You say I'm confused, but you've apparently forgotten the lawsuits that have been filed about the Solar City merge debacle (btw, I voted against the merger and Musk has since said I made the right call). One of which was settled for $60M from Tesla's Board of Directors Judge OKs $60M settlement over Tesla buyout of SolarCity . And there is still a separate case pending against Elon Musk.

I highly doubt there will be a similar case brought against NKLA for that video commercial. It simply doesn't rise to the same level, either by the level of being misleading nor by the impact of such misleading images/statements.

So we should give Nikola the benefit of the doubt because one of Tesla's products took longer than expected to come to fruition? There's a difference between being overly optimistic and a pathological liar. If you can't see that, enjoy your Nikola investment.

Your umbrage is misplaced, and you're assuming motivations that just aren't true. Look at all my posts here and you'll see I'm clearly in the NKLAQ camp. My intent is to help people like you recognize their prejudices so that we may all apply the same guidelines for whether something said is simply something has changed since the statement was made, or was an honest mistake, or an inaccuracy, or a misleading statement, or an exaggeration, or a lie, or an outright attempt to deceive. The company we all love, Tesla, and its CEO are not guiltless of all of those. Early Roadster depositors were promised 2-speed transmissions and an under $100k price. Those didn't happen. We were all shown solar roof tiles in 2016 that turned out to not be functional (the houses were not "solar houses"), the product development for which was started just months earlier and wasn't complete for a few years after the unveiling. The lies were intended to get stockholders to approve the merger and help Musk save face (and maybe save Space-X as well since it had bought Solar City bonds that would have become worthless should the merger not been approved and Solar City allowed to fail).

I believe Milton has lied and deceived, and with intent to benefit himself and his company financially. But, the video of the truck rolling down the hill is not by any means the kind of fraud from which successful lawsuits are filed.

When emotions calm down, perhaps we can have a productive discussion to identify the impactful lies Milton has made. But, anyone saying Tesla and Musk have always been 100% above board, and yet are upset over a NKLA video where viewers inferred things that weren't stated is not looking dispassionately at the facts.

 

[TheTalkingMule]

Still, the company does acknowledge that the demos Musk unveiled at Universal Studios were not functional.

What are you talking about? Everything you're ranting on exists and can be bought TODAY at very reasonable prices. Nikola literally has no products.

A house on a studio lot doesn't have functioning electric? Shocking!

 

[Causalien]

I am pretty worried about his brother leading the hydrogen development.

Hydrogen is leaky right? Failed containment near a trucker smoking while fueling could be disastreous.

 

[Stretch2727]

I believe Milton has lied and deceived, and with intent to benefit himself and his company financially. But, the video of the truck rolling down the hill is not by any means the kind of fraud from which successful lawsuits are filed.

Then Milton should just come out and say they rolled it down a hill. There were comments from him around this video that they were now road testing at that point, so he can't admit it.

 

[smorgasbord]

What are you talking about? Everything you're ranting on exists and can be bought TODAY at very reasonable prices. Nikola literally has no products.

Why are you comparing the companies and their products? I'm not. Changing the subject doesn't win arguments.

I'm comparing the impact of statements, from mistakes and inaccuracies up through deceitful intention.

 

[pz1975]

I am pretty worried aboit his brother leading the hydrogen development.

Hydrogen is leaky right? Failed cintainment near a trucker smoking while fueling could be disastreous.

I think you’re given them way too much credit. I think they will never get anywhere close to developing and running actual H2 fueling stations. IMO the whole brother thing is just to get his brother in on the stock option profits before the whole thing blows up.