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All discussion of Nikola Motors
- Thread starter Buckminster
- Start date
LN1_Casey
Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus
I'm surprised that this thread has died, with the recent drop in NKLA SP.
Nikola Stock Is Crashing - And No One's Buying Its Founder's Excuse
Here we have the CEO spending time defending its stock price.
Here we have the CEO spending time defending its stock price.
adiggs
Well-Known Member
Reason #3 in that article is that the CEO is spending too much time and energy and focus on the stock price. I think that's a good reason here in the particular, and it helps me articulate a more general idea.
If you want to know what's important to somebody, you can listen to what they say - it's at least a pointer in the right direction. What you really want though is to focus on what they do. What they do will reveal what's really important to them, and hopefully the words and deeds are in alignment.
In this case, I'm pretty sure the CEO will say that bringing an awesome electric vehicle to market is what's important. The deeds suggest that his focus is elsewhere.
And that's too bad. I'd like to see anybody show up with serious Tesla competition, so we as consumers have real choices and not settle-for choices. I'm thinking that NKLA won't be that somebody.
Whereas Elon is very specific to the point of stuttering sometimes, this guy is straight up door to door sales. As an introvert myself, this is a very big red flag.
Moving here since it doesn't belong in the Tesla thread...
@PV4EV Really, it is just a BEV Semi with a FC range extender. The FC was only putting out ~100kW, but they were consuming ~500kW when accelerating an unloaded Semi in a parking lot. Could the FC ramp up? Doubtfully enough to actually power a loaded Semi up a hill, they have to rely on the battery for that, so the FC just has to keep it topped up. (But it was only at ~18% in the demo.)
@PV4EV Really, it is just a BEV Semi with a FC range extender. The FC was only putting out ~100kW, but they were consuming ~500kW when accelerating an unloaded Semi in a parking lot. Could the FC ramp up? Doubtfully enough to actually power a loaded Semi up a hill, they have to rely on the battery for that, so the FC just has to keep it topped up. (But it was only at ~18% in the demo.)
willow_hiller
Well-Known Member
Great thread on how NKLA still hasn't figured out how to store 80 kg of hydrogen on their trucks: https://twitter.com/ajtourville/status/1281332814059917312?s=19
Dimensions are all TBD, but basic math on the dimensions needed for 4-5 tanks of hydrogen stored at 10,000 PSI put it outside of allowable DOT limits.
Dimensions are all TBD, but basic math on the dimensions needed for 4-5 tanks of hydrogen stored at 10,000 PSI put it outside of allowable DOT limits.
Doggydogworld
Active Member
His 1.9m cylinder length is laughable. The entire truck would be shorter than a Model 3!!!
He bases it on a 22.5 inch front tire height, lol. That's literally knee-high. 22.5 is the WHEEL diameter. Tire diameter is almost double that, roughly 40 inches.
A class 8 tractor can fit 4m tanks between the wheels. 3.5m and 0.48m diameter holds 16 kg. 5 of those fit in the 2.44m DOT width limit and present no floor height problem.
Why can't people use their brains?
Someone pointed out that he used the wrong size for the tires, but concluded that it's still impossible after correcting for it. So he re-did the calculations to correct for the tire size (now 40"): https://twitter.com/ajtourville/status/1281396279055134724
I think the clincher will be whether you can fit more than 3.5m of tank between the wheels. That's almost 15 feet, which doesn't look likely either. Even 3m is pushing it.
Doggydogworld
Active Member
3.5m is 11 and a half feet, not 15. And he "corrected" his 78% error by increasing tank length 17%. Ha.
Tractor wheelbase can be 22 feet from center of the front wheel to midpoint between the rears. Take out 60+ inches for wheels and you've got over 5 meters to play with. I guarantee 3.5m tanks can fit.
"Proving" fraud using a random artist's conception is goofy in the first place. NKLA is mostly a scam, but that doesn't justify copying the TSLAQ cult's methods.
actually, I would say it confirms it is possible...just go vertical and horizontal, below seems vertical only
problem for nkla is that Hyundai has started production.
World’s first fuel cell heavy-duty truck, XCIENT Fuel Cell, heads to Europe for commercial use. | Hyundai News | Hyundai Australia
key points from Hyundai
350bar hydrogen
dual 95kW fuel cell stacks. Seven large hydrogen tanks offer a combined storage capacity of around 32.09kg of hydrogen.
Hyundai to develop tractor unit with driving range of 1,000km on a single charge for USA market
consider carefully, 36 tonnes with 190kW stack, their battery (73kWh) must do a lot of duty.
but the point is, Tsla had a vacuum of competitors, Nkla looks like it will have a least 1 credible competitor.
problem for nkla is that Hyundai has started production.
World’s first fuel cell heavy-duty truck, XCIENT Fuel Cell, heads to Europe for commercial use. | Hyundai News | Hyundai Australia
key points from Hyundai
350bar hydrogen
dual 95kW fuel cell stacks. Seven large hydrogen tanks offer a combined storage capacity of around 32.09kg of hydrogen.
Hyundai to develop tractor unit with driving range of 1,000km on a single charge for USA market
consider carefully, 36 tonnes with 190kW stack, their battery (73kWh) must do a lot of duty.
but the point is, Tsla had a vacuum of competitors, Nkla looks like it will have a least 1 credible competitor.
the batteries referred to, pretty obviously are lithium sulphur. thundersky sold them about 10 years ago, min cell size was 600Ah, maximum cell size was 30,000 Ah!
Lithium Sulfur Batteries - AEVA Forums
I vaguely remember that they sold some for Chinese grid applications, then it went quiet.
Doggydogworld
Active Member
Did ThunderSky (or anyone else) ever actually deliver any of these? They seem wholly unsuited for grid use, where the buyer doesn't care about weight but cares A LOT about cycle life. I do remember TS and others listing them on their websites, but I never heard of anyone getting actual batteries.
What makes you think NKLA is talking about Li-S vs. lithium metal anode/solid state or silicon anode or one of the other "next great things"?
FWIW, I've always held the (very unpopular) opinion that Roadster 2 is designed around solid state cells.
Lithium Sulphur is always the chemistry when the specs focus on weight and ignore volume.
Its also cheap. Is there any other chemistry real or research that significantly improves weight performance vs li ion without any benefit in volume also?
Grid application as in substation scale, similar to how the japanese use sodium sulphur batteries.
Its also cheap. Is there any other chemistry real or research that significantly improves weight performance vs li ion without any benefit in volume also?
Grid application as in substation scale, similar to how the japanese use sodium sulphur batteries.
I have been looking into NKLA, trying my best to be objective.
But...
NKLA's website is full of false information, hyperbole and promises and computer renderings of products and services that do not exist. Information on warrants was misleading, undefined maps of elusive H2 fueling stations, no schedules for major events, "NKLAWorld" are listed. (Tweets seem to be the source for upcoming events.)
Based on many years of experience, products do not get developed from computer renderings- many prototypes and years of development are required. For me, watching the recent smartphone video of the Semi reveals his shallow understanding of technology, and this is proven out by many of his technically naive tweets.
not advice, no position.
But...
NKLA's website is full of false information, hyperbole and promises and computer renderings of products and services that do not exist. Information on warrants was misleading, undefined maps of elusive H2 fueling stations, no schedules for major events, "NKLAWorld" are listed. (Tweets seem to be the source for upcoming events.)
Based on many years of experience, products do not get developed from computer renderings- many prototypes and years of development are required. For me, watching the recent smartphone video of the Semi reveals his shallow understanding of technology, and this is proven out by many of his technically naive tweets.
not advice, no position.
Bye Bye $NKLA
Looks like they wanna dump their stonk on gullible retail investors.
https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1731289/000104746920004141/a2242084z424b3.htm
Looks like they wanna dump their stonk on gullible retail investors.
https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1731289/000104746920004141/a2242084z424b3.htm
willow_hiller
Well-Known Member
Wow. If I'm reading this right, NKLA has a public float of about 100 million shares? Nikola Corp.
And that SEC filing says they're planning on expanding it by at least another 53 million shares?
Unclear whether it's 53m or 24m... But yeah... It's the official conversion of the warrents... I mean this was well known, but finally should end up fixing the price arbitrage that existed between $NKLA and $NKLAW.
The 25%-50% increase in float should also allow more shorts to pile on and drive this thing down. IV on options has been crushed over the past few weeks and probably will be crushed even more on Monday.
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