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An Open Letter about My Model X Body Repair Experience...

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While I can't claim to know the process, Tesla relies a lot on automation with special jigs. Trying to translate that to field work was probably not part of the original engineering. Add in the repair of twisted aluminum and assembling new part has to be a headache. I know repairs to A8's have are just as tedious. My 2016 F150 (aluminum body on high strength steel) was totaled at a value of 65k for something that looked like less damage. Diminished value can easily equal the repair cost if it effects areas that are part of the frame that is designed to crumple a certain way when involved in an accident. There are professionals that will appraise the after accident value since it has the accident associated with it on a carfax type report.

I would ask the insureds company if they are going to total it out after your deminished value claim. They may have no choice (legally) but to call it a total. Good luck! Hope you get a new vehicle soon.View attachment 256152 View attachment 256153 View attachment 256154


That was a total?!
 
I don't understand why your insurance company is paying for the repair... It's this a US thing?
If you suffer a loss, you are entitled to file a claim against the at-fault party (or their insurer) to seek restitution for any loss the at-fault party has caused. But that insurance company may very well push back, and fight, and make you prove your case, possibly requiring the filing of a legal suit, and all the time and expense that entails. You are not the customer of that insurance company and it has no reason to be cooperative with you.

On the other hand, your own insurance company covers restoration of your vehicle under your policy. If you suffer a loss and submit a claim to your insurance company, it will pay for repairs (minus deductible) and generally cooperate with you, since you are its customer (and it wants the public reputation of being cooperative with customers). Then it will go after the party responsible to recover the cost, whose own insurance company will pay out under liability coverage (legal liability for damage caused to others). If it recovers the cost from the other party's insurer, you receive a reimbursement of your deductible. An insured party will always find it easier to make a claim against their own insurance company, and let it do all the hard work of arguing fault with the other party.

However, insurance policies generally cover restoration of one's own vehicle and liability for damage to others, so one's own insurer will not cover diminished value (reduction in resale value). If you want that, you have to prove to the at-fault party's insurer its liability to restore whatever (unrecovered) loss you have suffered. If you want your car to be considered a total loss, then you have to convince the payer that it is cheaper to pay out the current value of the vehicle than it is to attempt to repair it (and other property liability, such as diminished value). The diminished value claim may push it over that threshold, but only if the same insurer would have to pay directly for both.
 
That was a total?!

Yes, repair + diminished value was equal or greater than 75% of total value. In illinois that is considered a total loss and ACV is paid out on the vehicle. Aluminum demands a premium repair price and in my case, a new high strength steel frame. Once a high strength steel frame is damaged, it must be replaced. It cannot be heated or bent back into place.
 
MN is also a no-fault insurance state. This means that in an accident each vehicle is repaired by the insurance company of the vehicle owner. In accidents like this one, even though this was not the fault of the Model X driver, his insurance company pays for the repairs to his vehicle. In some cases the insurance company may subrogate against the insurance company of the other driver if they feel they can recover their costs. If they do recover their costs, they would then reimburse their insured for the value of his/her deductible.
 
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I don't think I agree with this, can you elaborate what parts is more complex to build/fix? I definitely can see thing being done differently, but I don't think make it hard for bodyshop to fix, if yes, then it's a training problem.

There are more electric and computer parts then others cars, but I don't think this will make fix harder either, when there are problem on these components, mostly you just swap the computer boards.

maybe this due to people from different industry, as a software engineer, I see this is easier compare with the ICE cars which have more moving parts
The way I see it, the Model-X is a low-volume, high-end production vehicle. Getting parts for it is going to be hard enough, considering that there is only 1 small supplier (Tesla). Other vehicles generally have many 3rd party options that are a lot cheaper.

Furthermore, Tesla did things very different, which requires new techniques and equipment for repairs. Not only is there going to be a learning curve for any body-shop (think expensive labor charges), but they also have to get new tools.

Once Tesla matures and body-shops are up-to-speed and equipped, it should get significantly cheaper and quicker to repair. The Model-3 should have an easier time, simply due to volume.
 
Thank you for that sobering and fair letter - man that is rough. As a company, Tesla needs to get on top of this issue or it could have extremely negative impact on the perception of these cars as viable - especially with the model 3 coming out. You probably need to see if you can find a local lawyer to push this issue. The suggestions of total loss are interesting, but, the fact that this is a 100k plus vehicle makes that very difficult. Why? For one, insurance companies have broad discretion in making this type of discretion and will be unwilling to part with $100k on a P.D. claim. Also, most people carry insurance policies with liability limits for property damage that is far too low to cover a loss of a 100k vehicle - usually in the range of $25k. This means every Tesla owner (for the first few years of ownership) should carry both collision and uninsured/underinsured motorist coverage for property damage in the amount of at least $100k. If there is sufficient insurance limits, then you can start to push a claim through when the property damages are very high - apparently that is frequently the case when Tesla's are in moderate to severe crashes. (and why many insurers are jacking up the rates to insure Teslas). Note, every state is different on insurance limits and how they handle claims and I only know about Texas.

I'm a personal injury lawyer and we often take care of our client's property damage claims gratis, especially when they are having difficulty with an insurance company. I've been forced to learn way more about property damage claims than I cared to. Here are some thoughts more I hope you find useful.

Assuming you have sufficient insurance coverage, you need to start building a case that will pressure the insurance companies involved into paying sooner. In Texas, we have experts who will do a well supported report on vehicles damaged in a wreck that will help determine the diminished value of the vehicle even after it is repaired. These property damage experts can also help you establish your loss of use claim which is also part of the property damage claim. If you've been without the vehicle for 6 months, then you are entitled to recover for loss of use of your vehicle. This is often determined by what the cost is to rent a comparable vehicle. My guess is to rent a Tesla would cost more than $50 a day. Lets say it was $50, multiply that time 6 months or 180 days and you've added $9,000 to your property damage claim. If you have a significant diminished value claim (seems likely given the extreme difficult of getting it repaired) perhaps you've added another $10k or more on top of the cost of repairs and loss of use claims. The clock is ticking at $50 a day and I suspect diminished value is increasing as well based on the extreme length of the repair time. That is because the vehicle is worth less in year than if it were repaired now. You need to document these damages in writing and get them to the insurance company along with the highest repair estimates you can find. Maybe Tesla can help with that part. It may be that you can still get them to change their mind and declare your car a total loss. That seems like it would be your best outcome at this situation. Good luck!
 
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MN is also a no-fault insurance state. This means that in an accident each vehicle is repaired by the insurance company of the vehicle owner. In accidents like this one, even though this was not the fault of the Model X driver, his insurance company pays for the repairs to his vehicle. In some cases the insurance company may subrogate against the insurance company of the other driver if they feel they can recover their costs. If they do recover their costs, they would then reimburse their insured for the value of his/her deductible.

Thanks, that explains it. Seems like it creates a lot of hassle, having to deal with two insurance companies.

In the UK you can claim for increased insurance premiums too.
 
And you've ordered another Tesla? Fool me once...

My much smaller repair was done in Tesla Approved Body Shop, it took 4 months. Mainly because of parts availability issues from Tesla.
I can say, 6 months is a short time for this kind of repair.
 
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How are insurance companies with these extremely long delays?

I once had an issue where a part had to be ordered from Japan for a Mitsubishi, and took three months to arrive before they realized it was the wrong one and ordered the right one locally which took another week.

The at-fault party's insurer was pretty upset about the rental cost of the hire car I was driving and kept trying to get me to downgrade to something cheaper. They then tried to wriggle out of it by saying it was the repair shop's fault (which it wasn't, Mitsubishi gave them bad information) and that I should have used their own preferred repairer (who would undoubtedly have used cheap pattern parts and half-arsed the job).
 
Wow. First of all, dutch2187, thanks so much for posting your experience. You’ve done a great service for all Tesla owners, and for Tesla itself for that matter. Because you are right: If Tesla does not get on the stick and prevent these kinds of repair nightmares, they will be buried in disgruntled owners and damaged cars as they start meeting their ultra-ambitious production goals. And that could sink them for good.

It seems to me that poor planning, unbelievably poor planning, is the culprit here! Yes, they built a marvel of technology. But was it news to them that accidents happen and that they needed to equip third-party repair networks — body shops and insurance companies — to deal with their cars without leaving their customers high and dry for over half a year? What conceivable excuse can they have for not foreseeing this issue and planning for it?

The least that they can do in your case is absorb the financial damage this has caused you and make you whole on your planned trade-in. That’s the least they can do.

And if I were you, I would insist that they do it. Yes, I know the counterargument: They can’t do this for everyone, or they’d go broke. Of course. But it’s still early days for Tesla, and you uncovered a fatal weakness (and you are not alone in having this experience), so they can afford to be generous now and do the right thing. You’ve helped warn both Tesla and the Tesla community of this unbelievable and unacceptable problem with repairing their cars. So Tesla owes you one, big time. And if they’re smart, they will act accordingly, lest they are engulfed in a catastrophe of their own making.

Good luck!
 
I feel your pain. I was involved in a very minor accident August 30th. Something that should take a body shop no more than two weeks MAX to fix. It was over a month before the insurance company and the body shop agreed on what would be paid for and how much (apparently there is some ambiguity in the parts catalog that repair shops use vs. the ones that insurance companies use and the estimates never match), three weeks for parts to come in. A headlamp was DOA on arrival and there was not a single one to be found in North America. IT HAD TO BE MANUFACTURED! This truly is insane. I understand that the car is "special" and like no other, but there is no excuse whatsoever for not having something as simple as a headlamp in stock and available to a repair shop. A motor, sure. That's a "real thing". But headlamps, turn signals, bumpers/sensors, are all commodity items that are going to be burned through rapidly by drivers just in the course of driving the car.

I tweeted Elon, and Telsa about this and never got a response (no surprise), but this really does need to be addressed and fixed. Bad enough that one pays a premium for insurance on these vehicles (double my previous TWO vehicles combined), but then when you can't EXERCISE that insurance because of these sorts of shortcomings in the supply chain and support logistics, it becomes a loosing proposition to own the vehicle.

Three months I will have made payments on the car, and to the insurance company on a vehicle that I can't drive because it sits, waiting for parts.

I wonder what the economics are for an insurance company to keep a vehicle off the road like this for an extended period of time and still collect insurance payments on it? Seems to me like the insurance company is collecting three months of premiums on a vehicle that has absolutely no risk associated with it since it can't be driven! How about suspending insurance payments for the time its in the shop? Especially since they contributed to the delay?

Okay, I've vented... not at all being rational. But it is very frustrating. Especially for something so minor.
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I wonder what the economics are for an insurance company to keep a vehicle off the road like this for an extended period of time and still collect insurance payments on it? Seems to me like the insurance company is collecting three months of premiums on a vehicle that has absolutely no risk associated with it since it can't be driven! How about suspending insurance payments for the time its in the shop? Especially since they contributed to the delay?

I would certainly suspend my collision/liability coverage while it was in the shop. (Since you aren't going to be driving it.) You would want to keep comprehensive, etc. so that other things would be covered if they happened. (Like theft/vandalism.)
 
Nearly two years ago, in December 2015, I was fortunate to place an order for a new Model X 90D.

The anticipation of owning and driving a brand new, and at that time, relatively rare electric SUV made by Tesla had me walking on air for the six months I waited for my Model X to be produced and delivered.

In June 2016, I finally did take delivery and I was absolutely THRILLED with the end result. I was and still am floored by the amazing piece of modern tech that the Model X is and represents. The wait was well worth it when I took my first test drive with my local Tesla rep.

Prior to ordering this fantastic vehicle, I had done my homework, and carefully considered the pros and cons of committing to what is essentially a start up company with a completely unproven new model of automobile.

I understood full well that by placing a firm order, I was signing up for all of the potential negatives that come with small companies, new cars and advanced technology.

I understood that at some level I would be committing myself to being a "guinea pig" of sorts and that my experience with the quality of the car, its construction, functionality, drivability and reliability would help inform Tesla about how to operate better, improve their manufacturing, improve their software, etc.

Hands down my 2016 Model X 90D performed incredibly well. Minor software glitches were cleared up instantly with an assist from the Model X User's Manual. Driving my sleek electric silver bullet was PURE JOY.

There were two or three minor cosmetic quibbles inside and outside of the vehicle, but they made me love my X even more. Where other owners would be in the Tesla Service Center seemingly every other week looking to tweak this minor bit or adjust that general area, I saw these minor cosmetic quirks as adding unique character to my X.

I had 10 months of primetime ownership, making multiple unnecessary trips out into nowhere or to the grocery store 40 miles away, just because I wanted to drive my X, and I was constantly selling my friends and family on the virtues of a smooth, clean and efficient Tesla electric drive.

Then suddenly in April of 2017, a black VW and a green Subaru threw all of that off track in what has become a nearly interminable 6.5 month wait for my X to be repaired and leave an independent body shop.

The right rear side of my X was hit flush (directly on the rear wheel) by the front end of the black VW, the force of the impact which caused my X to spin/slide sharply to the left where my driver's side door was crushed upon impacting the rear bumper of the green Subaru that was sitting stationary in line behind a few other cars at a stop light.

In the nearly seven months that my Model X has been in a local independent body shop, I have taken numerous calls and e-mails from the shop itself, plus several from the official Tesla Body Shop Consumer Advocate team, I have even received a much appreciated assist via this forum and Twitter from Tesla SVP Jon McNeill. I have also jumped through multiple hoops with my insurance company.

During this experience I have also received tremendous support and empathy from my local Tesla Service Center.

Unfortunately, beyond everyone's control is the seemingly complicated nature of the construction of the Model X itself and how, apparently, incredibly difficult it is to repair. Now mind you, this was not a fender bender. It was a serious accident that fortunately saw every person involved, and one tiny dog, walk away without injury.

At the outset of my X being loaded onto a flatbed and towed to the body shop, I clearly understood this was not going to be an easy or quick fix.

However, I could not have anticipated that more than half a year would pass and my Model X would STILL be in that shop.

I expected there would be delays in getting the necessary parts. I knew that the shop wouldn't have a full assessment of all the actual damage until the dash was pulled out and they had access to everything behind it, which of course there was, which of course required additional parts and time for them to be delivered.

However, what I did not anticipate or even understand at first, was a two month delay in just getting the proper jigs/bench fixtures made for Model X to attach my car to a work bench/lift so the shop could actually work on the car. This is where Jon McNeill and the Tesla Body Shop Customer Advocate team came in to facilitate and expedite the acquisition of these jigs for the body shop, which did happen and the shop got right to work, but that was nearly 5 months ago.

I am writing this as a means to encapsulate my experience for other Tesla owners and potential owners to understand the very complicated world of a small auto company and the unique logistical challenges an owner can face when confronted with an event like an accident with heavy damage that can't simply be buffed out or covered with a coat of paint.

The resulting strange limbo-type experience has seen me make loan payments for nearly seven months on a car that is not drivable. A car that is depreciating in value every single day sitting in the shop, but cannot be traded in toward the purchase of a new car, because it's still being repaired with no end in sight.

I am a Tesla owner with no Tesla. My car has been in the shop nearly as long as I had owned it prior to the accident.

To the great credit of my local Tesla Store & Service Center store manager Alex Liebl, he listened to my issues, empathized with my situation and made every effort to find a way I could transfer ownership of my wrecked Model X to Tesla and lock in its BB value so I could use that toward the purchase of a new Model X.

Unfortunately, my insurance company was NOT on board with that idea.

About a week ago the body shop informed me that my X is now half painted, requires the dash to be reconnected and reinstalled, a couple of seats need to be reinstalled, and multiple software updates need to take place.

Will this take a week? Two weeks? Another month? Who knows.

Regardless, I decided to order a brand new Model X 100D. I hope my repaired 90D will show up in time for me to do a trade-in when my 100D is delivered by Tesla, but given the $43,000 in damages + basically 7 months of depreciation sitting in the shop, I can't imagine the trade-in value of the 90D will be worth much, if anything at all.

And this is the kind of thing that was nearly impossible to anticipate two years ago when I was still debating the pros and cons about whether to commit to ordering a Tesla in the first place.

Going forward, as a Tesla owner and stockholder, I believe the pros still outweigh the cons.

Yet, Tesla has a hell of a lot of work to do on the practical side of ownership. With Model 3 and future vehicles in the pipeline, hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of Teslas will be on the road in the coming decade, and there will be a significant increase in accidents involving Tesla vehicles.

Getting those Teslas repaired properly and back on the road in a timely fashion is SUPER critical. Whether Tesla itself gets into the business of body repairs or they significantly up their oversight and partnerships with approved independent body shops, they will need to find a much better throughput that will make the accidents and repair experiences that inevitably happen in auto ownership far less onerous.

Is Tesla to blame for my wait? Is the independent body shop to blame? Is it the complex design and advanced nature of the Model X itself to blame? Is it just simply bad luck or bad timing? Is it all of the above, or a combination, or none at all?

I'm not smart enough to give an informed or educated answer those questions, as I have no idea how to build a car, repair a car, nor do I have insider access or control over the parts supply chain in a car manufacturer, nor do I have insider access or control over the prioritization of jobs in a body shop.

I am at the mercy of the system itself. And, taken with a grain of salt, accidents do happen. If this were a warranty issue for say the Model X's motors not working properly and it took Tesla seven months to rectify the issue, the nature of this letter would be far, far different.

As it is, it was an accident that put me in this position and that, I can most assuredly confirm, is not Tesla's fault.

I love this company and what it stands for and I love my Model X. After my first drive in a Tesla in June 2016, I swore that I would never buy a car from any other car company ever again. And I still stand by that today.

Thank you.
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Dutch:

I feel your pain. When my P90D was a few months old an alert came on which was diagnosed as a problem in the main battery. Instead of putting in a replacement 90kw battery, they put in an 85 loaner and sent my battery back to CA for remanufacturing, with an estimate of 4 to 6 weeks. Alas, my battery wasn't returned for 6 months and when installed in my car and diagnostics run, it was found to be defective, i.e. it wouldn't hold a charge. It took making a major argument with Tesla to finally have them do what they should have day 1, which is give me a new 90 battery. The people at the SC were terrific, acting as my strong advocate -- the problem was Tesla in CA. Overall, it was 7 months before everything was done.

Earlier this year I made the mistake of parking too close to a concrete curb, running the nose of the car over it. In any other car it might have scratched the lip of the fender cover, but given how Teslas are built, all kinds of things were damaged, and the final bill was $7,000. But, whereas most car companies would deliver the needed parts within a few days of receiving the parts manifest, it took Tesla 8 weeks, and not everything was delivered. Luckily the car was still drivable, else I would have had to pay for a rental car as we waited for parts..

They haven't figured out how to be a car company which is a big reason that your experience turned out that way.
 
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