Any Model Y with new projector headlights in the USA?

[Zuese]

This Model Y has a birthday of 3/17/21 with the new process and it does not have the new headlights yet.

 

[BigTrailer]

When there is a $1,500 per light difference?

I'm still not even convinced the 2 are plug and play compatible. Would like to see the plug on both varients as well as the wiring harness.

"Show me"

Tesla does not pay $ 1500 more per light from their suppliers; not even close. OEM Automotive parts are marked up to the degree where if you could sell your car in the form of individual parts, you'd get 10x what you paid for it.

I have no idea if they're plug and play compatible; all the more reason to standardize.

 

[Jjrss]

Tesla does not pay $ 1500 more per light from their suppliers; not even close. OEM Automotive parts are marked up to the degree where if you could sell your car in the form of individual parts, you'd get 10x what you paid for it.

I have no idea if they're plug and play compatible; all the more reason to standardize.

All the more reason they wont just burn through existing stock, and start installing the new one... ie, it wasnt engineered to receive it to begin with.

The assumption logic works both ways, and without any proof either way we are both right and wrong... the only thing going for my side, it's Q1 and to date no LR has them, and we are getting just as credible reporting from SA's saying only the MYP will get it.

They already have the manufacturing and supply lines engineered to assemble LR without it. Takes more energy/engineering/cost to rework the wiring harness to make LR compatible with the new lights.

 

[Jjrss]

I also wonder why they stopped selling the $35k Model 3 after swapping to the newer lights...

 

[Mrbrock]

This is still logically inconsistent.

If it's easy to have variation in assembly on the Model Y; presumably they do so for a cost savings on the Model Y. If this were the case, the same savings they see on the Model Y would apply to the Model 3's sold in North America. Why not also have the same variation on the Model 3 as Y? Clearly it's overall less costly to have no variation, which is exactly why eventually the MY LR will also get these same lights. Because in manufacturing, support, and design having less variation is less costly.

There are many more Model 3s (SR+, LR, LRP) being exported to Europe than there are MYPs being sold in the US. Just like you say, its an issue of scale. It is cheaper to put new lights on a premium vehicle that is maybe 25% of MYs being sold than it is to put them on 100% of MYs being sold. 100% of MYs produced in Fremont are being sold in North America. Europe doesn't get them and Asia (what limited markets outside of China there are) gets them from China I think.

 

[Mrbrock]

I also wonder why they stopped selling the $35k Model 3 after swapping to the newer lights...

Margins don't work like they used to when you increase the price of certain parts...

 

[Mrbrock]

Tesla does not pay $ 1500 more per light from their suppliers; not even close. OEM Automotive parts are marked up to the degree where if you could sell your car in the form of individual parts, you'd get 10x what you paid for it.

I have no idea if they're plug and play compatible; all the more reason to standardize.

The quote of costs is from a service center. They charge $500 for the old lights and $2100 for the new ones. If they use a multiplier on parts, say 300% markup, the new lights still cost 4.2 times as much as the old ones ($167 vs $700). That price increase has to be justified somewhere down the road for the accountants.

 

[Jjrss]

Margins don't work like they used to when you increase the price of certain parts...

And if the same impact to margins could jeopardize the sub $50k model Y... you postpone indefinitely, until competition requires the premium parts

 

[BigTrailer]

The quote of costs is from a service center. They charge $500 for the old lights and $2100 for the new ones. If they use a multiplier on parts, say 300% markup, the new lights still cost 4.2 times as much as the old ones ($167 vs $700). That price increase has to be justified somewhere down the road for the accountants.

You can get Projector Retrofit kits for $ 300 as a consumer. If someone is selling a niche product like that in low volume to the after market crowd who are notorious for RMA'ing and all the reverse logistics cost that go with that. Well you're talking about a product that probably costs around $ 30 to manufacture.

 

[Jjrss]

You can get Projector Retrofit kits for $ 300 as a consumer. If someone is selling a niche product like that in low volume to the after market crowd who are notorious for RMA'ing and all the reverse logistics cost that go with that. Well you're talking about a product that probably costs around $ 30 to manufacture.

Link to the OME retrofit kit? Or aftermarket?

 

[BigTrailer]

Link to the OME retrofit kit? Or aftermarket?

Bi-xenon HID Mini Motor Kit

Looking for a complete Bi-xenon retrofit kit for your motorcycle, without much hassle to mount the projectors? The Bi-xenon Mini Motor kit is the kit of your choice! Safety is important on your motorcycle. A good light output is important to see everything what's happening on the road in front...

www.retrofitlab.com

 

[Mrbrock]

You can get Projector Retrofit kits for $ 300 as a consumer. If someone is selling a niche product like that in low volume to the after market crowd who are notorious for RMA'ing and all the reverse logistics cost that go with that. Well you're talking about a product that probably costs around $ 30 to manufacture.

Bi-xenon HID Mini Motor Kit

Looking for a complete Bi-xenon retrofit kit for your motorcycle, without much hassle to mount the projectors? The Bi-xenon Mini Motor kit is the kit of your choice! Safety is important on your motorcycle. A good light output is important to see everything what's happening on the road in front...

www.retrofitlab.com

Do you understand what these new lights provide? They are matrix lights. If the laws in the US allowed, they can be dimmed in certain paths to prevent blinding oncoming cars for example. You wouldn't need to switch from high beams to low beams when a car comes over a hill. Cameras would sense the oncoming lights and locally dim the beam in that direction but still lighting the road in front of you as bright as possible. Do people really think that Tesla is "upgrading" the M3 and MY lights to projector technology from 20 years ago?

 

[BigTrailer]

Do you understand what these new lights provide? They are matrix lights. If the laws in the US allowed, they can be dimmed in certain paths to prevent blinding oncoming cars for example. You wouldn't need to switch from high beams to low beams when a car comes over a hill. Cameras would sense the oncoming lights and locally dim the beam in that direction but still lighting the road in front of you as bright as possible. Do people really think that Tesla is "upgrading" the M3 and MY lights to projector technology from 20 years ago?

Yes, the only difference between that and what I posted is the LED matrix that has an array of dimmable LED's. All of the controller logic can live the same place it does now; in the existing Tesla Vision logic. There are no additional cameras or sensors in the new light assembly.

While it sounds very complicated; it's simply combining several inexpensive commodity technologies into an integrated solution. With almost all the cost and complexity being in the software.

 

[Mrbrock]

Yes, the only difference between that and what I posted is the LED matrix that has an array of dimmable LED's. All of the controller logic can live the same place it does now; in the existing Tesla Vision logic. There are no additional cameras or sensors in the new light assembly.

While it sounds very complicated; it's simply combining several inexpensive commodity technologies into an integrated solution. With almost all the cost and complexity being in the software.

All of what you say is not born out in reality. Here is a matrix led upgrade for Audi. $6,000.

Headlights | A5, S5, RS5 Matrix LED Retrofit Package (Genuine)

Brand new all-clear full matrix LED housings coupled with all of the needed components to retrofit from the LED headlights. Package includes VAS5054A clone interface for final calibration. Remote coding and calibration of the headlights is included for an easy installation. Instructions for...

europrice.us

Those are not retrofits. Nobody makes an LED matrix projector retrofit. If we were talking about a straight LED projector retrofit that is one thing, the matrix is entirely different.

 

[BigTrailer]

All of what you say is not born out in reality. Here is a matrix led upgrade for Audi. $6,000.

Headlights | A5, S5, RS5 Matrix LED Retrofit Package (Genuine)

Brand new all-clear full matrix LED housings coupled with all of the needed components to retrofit from the LED headlights. Package includes VAS5054A clone interface for final calibration. Remote coding and calibration of the headlights is included for an easy installation. Instructions for...

europrice.us

Those are not retrofits. Nobody makes an LED matrix projector retrofit. If we were talking about a straight LED projector retrofit that is one thing, the matrix is entirely different.

You are missing the context, I'm talking about production cost you're comparing retail costs. You're also comparing apples to oranges because what you're linking to contains all the hardware required to run the system.

What Tesla needs to achieve the same capability is far more simple, because the car already has the sensors and processors required to control a simple set of components.

These are the main material components required in addition to what's already in the car:

1) Servo's to move the projector
2) Gimbal to float the projector
2) LED matrix array to provide lighting
3) Projector enclosure with lens

That's all that there is above and beyond the existing hardware in the car. These components do not cost thousands of dollars. They cost very little when purchased in volume, designed, spec'd assembled by an offshore ODM. A $ 300 DJI drone has more complex and sophisticated hardware than what's mentioned above, and those only cost ~$ 60 USD to manufacture.

 

[Mrbrock]

You are missing the context, I'm talking about production cost you're comparing retail costs. You're also comparing apples to oranges because what you're linking to contains all the hardware required to run the system.

What Tesla needs to achieve the same capability is far more simple, because the car already has the sensors and processors required to control a simple set of components.

These are the main material components required in addition to what's already in the car:

1) Servo's to move the projector
2) Gimbal to float the projector
2) LED matrix array to provide lighting
3) Projector enclosure with lens

That's all that there is above and beyond the existing hardware in the car. These components do not cost thousands of dollars. They cost very little when purchased in volume, designed, spec'd assembled by an offshore ODM. A $ 300 DJI drone has more complex and sophisticated hardware than what's mentioned above, and those only cost ~$ 60 USD to manufacture.

What I linked to includes the headlights and modules. The only additional item is a clone interface for programming. Do you think Tesla is selling headlights without the drivers and modules that are attached to them?

I don't doubt that that is all that is needed. I'll take your word for it since I have no knowledge of the inner workings on lights. So you are suggesting Tesla is taking something that cost $60 additional to make and marking up an additional $1600 from the original part (2667%)? I find that very hard to believe. If that is the case the cars we buy would be going for 100 times what the do now because all the parts would be ridiculously expensive. Also the SR 3 would still be able to be ordered. The only thing additional cost from the 2020 to 2021 was the headlight upgrade. And they dumped the car with the smallest margins because the new headlights obviously made that car unprofitable. Hard to believe that they did that over $60 x 2.

 

[BigTrailer]

What I linked to includes the headlights and modules. The only additional item is a clone interface for programming. Do you think Tesla is selling headlights without the drivers and modules that are attached to them?

I don't doubt that that is all that is needed. I'll take your word for it since I have no knowledge of the inner workings on lights. So you are suggesting Tesla is taking something that cost $60 additional to make and marking up an additional $1600 from the original part (2667%)? I find that very hard to believe. If that is the case the cars we buy would be going for 100 times what the do now because all the parts would be ridiculously expensive. Also the SR 3 would still be able to be ordered. The only thing additional cost from the 2020 to 2021 was the headlight upgrade. And they dumped the car with the smallest margins because the new headlights obviously made that car unprofitable. Hard to believe that they did that over $60 x 2.

Remember we're talking about the difference in cost. The old one still had a housing, etc.

With respect to parts pricing. I remember doing this exercise for a 2011 Ford Edge when I had access to a parts catalogue in a database format. The entire price of the car was well over $ 240k Canadian in parts of I recall correctly.

It is normal practice to heavily mark up automotive parts. Until there are 3rd party alternatives, it's not like you can go to the competition. Additionally the majority are purchased by insurance companies who just pay the bill.

This is how an epi pen got up to near $1000 when you could buy the same one in Canada for $80. If people can overcharge that much for a necessary life saving device... Guess how concerned they are about overcharging on a light.

 

[Jjrss]

Remember we're talking about the difference in cost. The old one still had a housing, etc.

With respect to parts pricing. I remember doing this exercise for a 2011 Ford Edge when I had access to a parts catalogue in a database format. The entire price of the car was well over $ 240k Canadian in parts of I recall correctly.

It is normal practice to heavily mark up automotive parts. Until there are 3rd party alternatives, it's not like you can go to the competition. Additionally the majority are purchased by insurance companies who just pay the bill.

This is how an epi pen got up to near $1000 when you could buy the same one in Canada for $80. If people can overcharge that much for a necessary life saving device... Guess how concerned they are about overcharging on a light.

What you linked is a banana in an already apples to oranges discussion.

I ask for an OEM link, since you are literally just making up numbers. Next you'll link a kiwi.

Apple = existing MY LR light $4~500 per light
Orange = MYP, M3 LED matrix light, $2100 per light.

The costs to kits you listed have nothing to do with either, regardless of your "cost" argument.

Please dont link a whale oil latern on ebay next.

 

[_tb_]

 

[Jjrss]

Guys, I dont understand why they dont just put the more powerful MYP rear motor in the LR, look at the cost of this electric motor:

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It would make manufacturing easier if my LR came with all the same parts as the MYP because the cost of all the parts is pennies. Simplify the manufacturing, save money... logic