Any "wiggle room" with CPO?

[bcsteeve]

I realize that ordering a new Tesla means paying MSRP... but for CPO, is there any point in me trying to negotiate?

If online tools like teslainventory.com are accurate, I can see the car I'm looking for has sat in inventory since February at my local showroom. They've dropped the price a bunch of times (and the mileage has gone up a couple of times, but minor - test drives I imagine). Can I play hardball and ask them to drop it further? How much further? Anyone have any luck?

I'm kind of wanting to ask them to eat the tax (15%), but I'm guessing that won't fly. Its about equal to the amount they've already dropped it since February.

Thoughts?

 

[cameronr]

I asked my CPO advisor and he wouldn't budge but doesn't hurt to try.

 

[bcsteeve]

Thanks. One slightly encouraging thing is when I asked the sales girl, her answer was "usually not" and she said she'd get the manager to call me in the morning. "usually not" means "sometimes yes" in my view

They also seem to be having trouble moving their growing inventory if several cars haven't sold since Feb/Mar. But then, maybe they don't move because they won't deal?

 

[cameronr]

Yeah, I've wondered the same thing about inventory cars that have been in their system for a long time. Worst they can do is say no

 

[Tforme]

I wouldn't ask. Instead make a firm offer and let it be known you're ready to buy at that price. A ready and able buyer gets lots more attention than a vague "would you take" question.

 

[bcsteeve]

True. Doesn't matter though. This is the third time they said they would follow up with me and then didn't. I'm done trying to chase them down to give then a hundred grand.

 

[G'sinHawaii]

I actually watched several "new inventory" prices drop almost daily basis, the reason I think is its used as the service loaners, so as the mileage goes up, the price comes down, if I remember correctly is was about a little more then a $1,000 in 2 weeks that i watched a few models until the were probably sold as it drop out of the system..

Yeah, I've wondered the same thing about inventory cars that have been in their system for a long time. Worst they can do is say no

 

[cameronr]

I actually watched several "new inventory" prices drop almost daily basis, the reason I think is its used as the service loaners, so as the mileage goes up, the price comes down, if I remember correctly is was about a little more then a $1,000 in 2 weeks that i watched a few models until the were probably sold as it drop out of the system..

You can check ev-cpo.com to see when a car was removed from the system (hit the current listings toggle to show archived listings). It's not a guarantee that a car was sold but could be interesting.

 

[G'sinHawaii]

You can check ev-cpo.com to see when a car was removed from the system (hit the current listings toggle to show archived listings). It's not a guarantee that a car was sold but could be interesting.

Cameron - Thats cool thanks so 1 that i was watching isn't there, the other is

a while ago S/N 204462 - with 50 miles was $158,800, currently it showed up in ev-cpo in San Francisco with 428 current miles and $144,500 but also, being that the price dropped about 10K on a custom build, maybe this followed that too, for the 14K drop....

so to answer the original question it does

 

[bcsteeve]

So in the end, I got a great deal (I think) on a 2015 P85D. I didn't buy CPO. I went with a private dealer and it was over $12,000 less than the lowest priced similar CPO. It doesn't have the sound upgrade or spoiler, but pretty much every other upgrade is there. Same km (within 200km) of the comparable CPO. I get 1 yr, 7 months less warranty, but I can extend by 2 yrs for $3,500. I personally don't think the warranty + stereo is worth even close to $12k.

* All figures CAD.

 

[Ghosty]

So in the end, I got a great deal (I think) on a 2015 P85D. I didn't buy CPO. I went with a private dealer and it was over $12,000 less than the lowest priced similar CPO. It doesn't have the sound upgrade or spoiler, but pretty much every other upgrade is there. Same km (within 200km) of the comparable CPO. I get 1 yr, 7 months less warranty, but I can extend by 2 yrs for $3,500. I personally don't think the warranty + stereo is worth even close to $12k.

* All figures CAD.

What site did you use to find your car?

 

[bcsteeve]

In the end, Google. I started with autotrader but then I started just Googling "2015 P85D for sale" and scouring through the hits I started to see individual site inventories. I guess in a way I got lucky with this particular one. The place that was selling gave up on it and sold it to a different dealer in a bigger market. He passed my info on. The timing had it where the new dealer hadn't even received it yet... so I was making their job VERY easy, since it was essentially sold before it landed. All he had to do was take detailed pictures and confirm some details and we're good.

I do have some risk, of course. I'm buying sight unseen. But, with Tesla, isn't that kind of the norm? I know it will have little scratches and dings - it is 2 yrs old afterall - but I can live with that. The CarProof report was clean, so I'm comfortable at the moment.

 

[TheJayAlvarez]

In the end, Google. I started with autotrader but then I started just Googling "2015 P85D for sale" and scouring through the hits I started to see individual site inventories. I guess in a way I got lucky with this particular one. The place that was selling gave up on it and sold it to a different dealer in a bigger market. He passed my info on. The timing had it where the new dealer hadn't even received it yet... so I was making their job VERY easy, since it was essentially sold before it landed. All he had to do was take detailed pictures and confirm some details and we're good.

I do have some risk, of course. I'm buying sight unseen. But, with Tesla, isn't that kind of the norm? I know it will have little scratches and dings - it is 2 yrs old afterall - but I can live with that. The CarProof report was clean, so I'm comfortable at the moment.

How are you extending the warranty? I thought Tesla didn't allow extended warranties when used cars are purchased from dealers

 

[bcsteeve]

If that's true, then nobody should be buying a Tesla because it would demonstrate a ghastly lack of regard by a company for their OWN view of their reliability. It would mark the first time ever that an automotive company put a restriction like that. What's next, I can't buy a car cover from them? A new set of wheels? I can't get it repaired?

Tesla is semi-unique in that it cuts out the retail, but ultimately that changes nothing legally. The warranty is between the manufacturer and the customer, regardless of who did the retailing. If they offer an extended warranty to their customers (ie. car owners) it shouldn't matter how/where the car was purchased.

I can't say for certain that you're mistaken, but I think you are. Not that it really matters for me. I wouldn't pay to extend the warranty anyway.

 

[Tforme]

Jay is correct. Tesla Extended Warranty can't be bought if the Tesla was purchased from a dealer - but can if bought private party. I've heard a couple of different "reasons" for this. Neither of which really make any sense.

 

[bcsteeve]

That felt like complete nonsense to me so I figured I'd better get the answer directly from Tesla. Shockingly, you guys are right. They will not sell an extended warranty for a car that was not purchased directly from a Tesla Center. That's absolutely ridiculous. The logic they used was that they don't know the history of the car. That's either completely false, because they have all the online records from the previous owner, or else it's irrelevant because they'd have no records so to speak from any owner at any given time if that were the case.

To me this speaks volumes that Tesla cares more about controlling sales than they do their customers. They really need to resolve amongst themselves this strange relationship they have between manufacturer and customer and then also playing retailer. As a manufacturer they should be completely retail agnostic in caring for their customer.

But, as has been often the case, I'll have to let this slide and give them a pass being a relatively new manufacturer. Because I believe in the mission and I want the car. I'm just losing a little faith in how the company decides to behave. This is kind of the thing I'd expect from the General Motors of the world, not a company that's supooedly trying to do things the right way.

Incidentally, I've been really impressed with this third-party dealer I've been working with. Their level of knowledge and passion for the brand far exceeds what I've seen from the actual Tesla Center. It is clear that the gentleman that owns this business is an enthusiast to the highest degree. Despite the warranty, I feel more comfortable purchasing from them than Tesla.

 

[stan23]

That felt like complete nonsense to me so I figured I'd better get the answer directly from Tesla. Shockingly, you guys are right. They will not sell an extended warranty for a car that was not purchased directly from a Tesla Center. That's absolutely ridiculous. The logic they used was that they don't know the history of the car. That's either completely false, because they have all the online records from the previous owner, or else it's irrelevant because they'd have no records so to speak from any owner at any given time if that were the case.

To me this speaks volumes that Tesla cares more about controlling sales than they do their customers. They really need to resolve amongst themselves this strange relationship they have between manufacturer and customer and then also playing retailer. As a manufacturer they should be completely retail agnostic in caring for their customer.

But, as has been often the case, I'll have to let this slide and give them a pass being a relatively new manufacturer. Because I believe in the mission and I want the car. I'm just losing a little faith in how the company decides to behave. This is kind of the thing I'd expect from the General Motors of the world, not a company that's supooedly trying to do things the right way.

Incidentally, I've been really impressed with this third-party dealer I've been working with. Their level of knowledge and passion for the brand far exceeds what I've seen from the actual Tesla Center. It is clear that the gentleman that owns this business is an enthusiast to the highest degree. Despite the warranty, I feel more comfortable purchasing from them than Tesla.

I'm going to have to side with Tesla on this one.

A 3rd party dealerships primary goal is to sell you a car. They may get a trade in on a car in less than stellar shape, and need to recondition it to get it 'out the door' so they can make their money.

My bet is they will recondition the car (not up to Tesla's standards) and get it out for sale. If you think about it, why would Tesla sell you their warranty if they haven't been able to 'bless' the car? What if they sell you a warranty on a sight unseen car, and found out that someone had attempted to remove the battery pack and or change the DU?

If we were talking about a traditional ICE car, I would not even bat an eye, but this car and it's electronics are a whole new ball game.

I would not feel comfortable buying a used Tesla that wasn't blessed by them. At most, I would buy a private party one and buy the extended warranty prior to taking delivery.

 

[bcsteeve]

For the same reason EVERY OTHER MANUFACTURER IN THE WORLD does... because the arguments made (by them and you) are irrelevant.

Let's use your example. Let's say the dealer "reconditioned" the car and did a poor job of it. OK, now let's say you buy a car from Tesla directly and kick the door panel in... covered? Of course not. That's not what a warranty is. If the dealer messes up the car or you mess up the car, that's not a manufacturer's defect and wouldn't be covered in any case no matter who or where the car was purchased from. "Reconditioning" has nothing to do with anything. That's just touching up scratches, detailing interiors, shining up wheels... that kind of thing. None of that is covered by warranty or has anything to do with a warranty.

So what other argument could be made... how about, "what if the previous owner abused the battery". So? What if the CURRENT owner abuses the battery? They're covered and I'm not? Zero logic there. If abuse is evident, then it should be covered or not independent of who owns it or where it was purchased.

The option to be able to buy additional warranty comes down to one thing and one thing only... incentive to buy from Tesla. They can't control the used market, but they (apparently) can control the warranty. So they want to incentivise me to buy in a way that increases their profit. Understandable? From a stock holder perspective, sure. Legal? Probably not. Tesla has found out along the way that the way they want to do things doesn't always match up with the law. I'm sure this will get challenged eventually. Smart? Not at all.. it reflects poorly on them. It tells us that they'll only stand by THEIR product if THEY made the profit not only on the original sale, but again on the resale. That's not acceptable.

But again, Tesla fans will continue to give Tesla a pass on whatever it does, in perpetuity.

This policy is a mistake by Tesla. Really no two ways about it.

 

[stan23]

For the same reason EVERY OTHER MANUFACTURER IN THE WORLD does... because the arguments made (by them and you) are irrelevant.

Let's use your example. Let's say the dealer "reconditioned" the car and did a poor job of it. OK, now let's say you buy a car from Tesla directly and kick the door panel in... covered? Of course not. That's not what a warranty is. If the dealer messes up the car or you mess up the car, that's not a manufacturer's defect and wouldn't be covered in any case no matter who or where the car was purchased from. "Reconditioning" has nothing to do with anything. That's just touching up scratches, detailing interiors, shining up wheels... that kind of thing. None of that is covered by warranty or has anything to do with a warranty.

So what other argument could be made... how about, "what if the previous owner abused the battery". So? What if the CURRENT owner abuses the battery? They're covered and I'm not? Zero logic there. If abuse is evident, then it should be covered or not independent of who owns it or where it was purchased.

The option to be able to buy additional warranty comes down to one thing and one thing only... incentive to buy from Tesla. They can't control the used market, but they (apparently) can control the warranty. So they want to incentivise me to buy in a way that increases their profit. Understandable? From a stock holder perspective, sure. Legal? Probably not. Tesla has found out along the way that the way they want to do things doesn't always match up with the law. I'm sure this will get challenged eventually. Smart? Not at all.. it reflects poorly on them. It tells us that they'll only stand by THEIR product if THEY made the profit not only on the original sale, but again on the resale. That's not acceptable.

But again, Tesla fans will continue to give Tesla a pass on whatever it does, in perpetuity.

This policy is a mistake by Tesla. Really no two ways about it.

Your tone is aggressive and argumentative, so I'll reply once and stop at that. I sincerely hope you enjoy your car. If you search my old posts, you can see i'm not a fanboy - my delivery experience was poor, and my new car has some minor issues.

We're not dealing with a traditional car company and we're not dealing with a traditional ice car. While on the exterior, it may seem silly for Tesla to offer extended warranties for current owners, and not for any cars that go through a 2nd hand dealer - they probably do it for liability issues. Maybe they don't trust 2nd hand dealers? Maybe they want to recondition all used cars so that they are problem free, thus enhancing everyone's Tesla experience?

 

[bcsteeve]

In a text-only medium, there can be no "tone" - easily the biggest flaw in online communications. Any tone you read, is you reading it. Try to read it again picturing me with a big smile on my face and handing you an ice cream