AP 2 Bad Behavior - 1b27c6d

[Padelford]

I've noticed in the past that AP 2 can have some very bad behavior under the following circumstances:

• Driving in the right lane
• Rising/descending pavement
• Following a freeway turn
• Passing an exit

Essentially, the vehicle gets confused and dives for the exit. The vehicle can also lose lane control when an exit isn't involved. I don't typically see this kind of behavior when the road stays flat. The ascending/descending motion seems to be a key part of this mis-behavior.

I drove a short time on a freeway south of Seattle near Tukwila, WA and recorded some video of the bad behavior. I was heading north on SR-599 from I-5 North in the right lane.

In the first clip (0:11), I actually let the vehicle recover from its dive for the exit. Some beeping was heard as the vehicle steered back onto the highway.

In the second clip, there are two instances of bad behavior. The first is at 0:21, where the vehicle loses lane control as the highway climbs and turns to the right. During the second, at 1:26, I seized steering control before the vehicle hit the guardrail between the exit and the highway.

I'd advise everyone to be very careful when using AP 2 when the road rises or descends and turns. I hope Tesla makes this problem a high priority for fixing soon.

 

[HankLloydRight]

OT.. just wanted to say - what an awesome -- and relevant -- avatar!

 

[boaterva]

This is 17.36 by the way. Please use those release version numbers. The hashcode means nothing and has to be looked up each time unless you have a better memory than I have!

 

[buttershrimp]

A couple of questions, how long have you been updated? Who was honking in the first video? Also what was your speed relative to the speed limit? I've noticed 17.36 has issues with exiting highway again, something which was better on the previous update.... however, 17.36 seems much better tracking through intersections and in slower and tighter roads. Especially when not speeding, however, even 5 mph over creates problems sometimes for me.

I've noticed in the past that AP 2 can have some very bad behavior under the following circumstances:

• Driving in the right lane
• Rising/descending pavement
• Following a freeway turn
• Passing an exit

Essentially, the vehicle gets confused and dives for the exit. The vehicle can also lose lane control when an exit isn't involved. I don't typically see this kind of behavior when the road stays flat. The ascending/descending motion seems to be a key part of this mis-behavior.

I drove a short time on a freeway south of Seattle near Tukwila, WA and recorded some video of the bad behavior. I was heading north on SR-599 from I-5 North in the right lane.

In the first clip (0:11), I actually let the vehicle recover from its dive for the exit. Some beeping was heard as the vehicle steered back onto the highway.

In the second clip, there are two instances of bad behavior. The first is at 0:21, where the vehicle loses lane control as the highway climbs and turns to the right. During the second, at 1:26, I seized steering control before the vehicle hit the guardrail between the exit and the highway.

I'd advise everyone to be very careful when using AP 2 when the road rises or descends and turns. I hope Tesla makes this problem a high priority for fixing soon.

 

[Electroman]

On the first video it should be of no surprise why AP took the exit. The highway is curving to the left and the exit is at a shallow angle and actually is bit of a straight path from the right lane.

How the heck will AP know which way to go when there is a shallow fork? AP prefers to follow the line to the right and you can argue it is better off following the line to the left. But in any case just applying some basic common sense it should be clear why it is getting confused near an exit. .

On hills the distance the camera can see the lines is obscured by the crest and hence the struggle.

Also it is not clear how much faster were you beyond the speed limit.

I suggest that everyone take some time to understand how AP works - then almost all the behavior will make sense, atleast for AP1.

Then you can actually use AP far more effectively in more situations than you would do today without getting all worked up. I use AP1 even in some stretches of city streets now

 

[buttershrimp]

On tthe first video it should be of no surprise why AP took the exit. The highway is curving to the left and the exit is at a shallow angle and actually is bit of a straight path from the right lane.

How the heck will AP know which way to go when there is a shallow fork? AP prefers to follow the line to the right and you can argue it is better off following the line to the left. But in any case just applying some basic common sense it should be clear why it is getting confused near an exit. No need to get all worked up.

On hills the distance the camera can see the lines is obscured by the crest and hence the struggle.

Also it is not clear how much faster were you beyond the speed limit.

I agree with you that the first video makes a ton of sense as to why it exited.... I think AP would likely keep doing that even with far more advanced AP software until detailed map data play more of a role in knowing the expected course of the road... So in the first video, I don't call it bad behavior but more incorrect behavior.

The second example definitely made me cringe, I felt bad for the guy who honked... but I understand the OP was trying to capture video to illustrate his point.. . I can't speak to the OP's speed, but the second video is one of those things that shouldn't happen with improved software regardless of map data. I though this was a good example of where AP1 and AP2 currently struggle.

One other thought I had is that the road itself appeared to be a moderately complicated stretch of road.... a good example of how folks in wyoming or washington might encounter some tricky turns, exits, and crests a little more often. For what it's worth, my car was handling similar situations today better than it did a week ago even though it's the same firmware. That's why I'm curious as to how long he's been at it. I've noticed this firmware update has struggled more with freshly pained lane lines on newly opened roads.

 

[Mark Z]

17.38 arrived on 9/29. Much improved on my OC to Murrieta drive. No lane change on its own, yet it still had a desire to move around occasionally. Most of the time the drive was flawless with the 90D in the center of the lane.

 

[Padelford]

A couple of questions, how long have you been updated? Who was honking in the first video? Also what was your speed relative to the speed limit? I've noticed 17.36 has issues with exiting highway again, something which was better on the previous update.... however, 17.36 seems much better tracking through intersections and in slower and tighter roads. Especially when not speeding, however, even 5 mph over creates problems sometimes for me.

I’ve had 17.36 for about two weeks, but ai don’t drive this highway too often.

The honking was because AP2 lost lane control as I went up a small rise and the road turned to the right.

 

[Padelford]

I agree with you that the first video makes a ton of sense as to why it exited.... I think AP would likely keep doing that even with far more advanced AP software until detailed map data play more of a role in knowing the expected course of the road... So in the first video, I don't call it bad behavior but more incorrect behavior.

The second example definitely made me cringe, I felt bad for the guy who honked... but I understand the OP was trying to capture video to illustrate his point.. . I can't speak to the OP's speed, but the second video is one of those things that shouldn't happen with improved software regardless of map data. I though this was a good example of where AP1 and AP2 currently struggle.

One other thought I had is that the road itself appeared to be a moderately complicated stretch of road.... a good example of how folks in wyoming or washington might encounter some tricky turns, exits, and crests a little more often. For what it's worth, my car was handling similar situations today better than it did a week ago even though it's the same firmware. That's why I'm curious as to how long he's been at it. I've noticed this firmware update has struggled more with freshly pained lane lines on newly opened roads.

I was going the speed limit (60 mph) in the first video and half the second, then I increased speed to 65.

 

[Padelford]

On the first video it should be of no surprise why AP took the exit. The highway is curving to the left and the exit is at a shallow angle and actually is bit of a straight path from the right lane.

How the heck will AP know which way to go when there is a shallow fork? AP prefers to follow the line to the right and you can argue it is better off following the line to the left. But in any case just applying some basic common sense it should be clear why it is getting confused near an exit. .

On hills the distance the camera can see the lines is obscured by the crest and hence the struggle.

Also it is not clear how much faster were you beyond the speed limit.

I suggest that everyone take some time to understand how AP works - then almost all the behavior will make sense, atleast for AP1.

Then you can actually use AP far more effectively in more situations than you would do today without getting all worked up. I use AP1 even in some stretches of city streets now

AP right now relies too heavily on right side solid line markings. I’ve seen similar problems driving in the leftmost lane passing left-side exits or on-ramps. The software should rely more on the dashed lane markers. There should be some logic such that when the solid line markers diverge away from the vehicle (such as at an exit), the vehicle switches to the dashed lines for route guidance temporarily.

My biggest concern is that AP frequently has lane control problems with rising or descending highway pavement.

 

[buttershrimp]

AP right now relies too heavily on right side solid line markings. I’ve seen similar problems driving in the leftmost lane passing left-side exits or on-ramps. The software should rely more on the dashed lane markers. There should be some logic such that when the solid line markers diverge away from the vehicle (such as at an exit), the vehicle switches to the dashed lines for route guidance temporarily.

My biggest concern is that AP frequently has lane control problems with rising or descending highway pavement.

Yeah, rising crests are definitely a challenge, seems to be getting better over the past few updates, but still have a way to go. I ask about the honking because I couldn't tell if it was from a different driver because I saw you passed a mercedes bus on the video, but it didn't look like anyone was around you when I heard the honk. I'm just wondering if it came from you or someone who thought you were leaving the lane? I've made a couple of driver's nervous letting my autopilot steer, but I don't let it get too far out of hand.....

 

[oktane]

I hate how it likes to dive towards the remaining lane marker when one disappears (like for an exit or turn lane). If one lane hasn't moved it should keep the same vector.

 

[Padelford]

Yeah, rising crests are definitely a challenge, seems to be getting better over the past few updates, but still have a way to go. I ask about the honking because I couldn't tell if it was from a different driver because I saw you passed a mercedes bus on the video, but it didn't look like anyone was around you when I heard the honk. I'm just wondering if it came from you or someone who thought you were leaving the lane? I've made a couple of driver's nervous letting my autopilot steer, but I don't let it get too far out of hand.....

The honking was from a tractor-trailer rig behind me. The vehicle swerved to the right then to the left as it ascended and turned to the right. I mentioned a “dump truck” in the video.