AP2 - Snow radar failure

[whitex]

I wonder whether or not the AP2 camera has a heater, or is it simply left ON by the software (power management not implemented yet)? I recently noticed I got similar melted snow around my Blackvue dashcam on the front windshield and liftgate glass - those are ON 24/7.

 

[AWDtsla]

Well, while on AP1 the radar design may be better because radar heat melts some snow

Any heat the AP1 sensors puts out is insignificant. Sadly, other manufacturer's radar control cruise come with ACTUAL heaters on them.

No reason for this thread to be AP2 only, but it does seem like things went further backwards with AP2.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

I have never, ever heard of the suggestion not to use cruise control in winter time.

Frankly, I'd consider it crazy talk, if I didn't hear it has been suggested in Canada where they actually should know what they are saying.

Winter is a normal part of life in a significant portion of the world. It is not a day to shutdown schools and go play in the snow.

Automated car systems definitely should work in winter conditions to a reasonable degree. "Avoid until spring", is not reasonable.

 

[Canuck]

Oh, so the fancy Tesla-only traction control reaction that reacts in 1ms simply fails in the snow?

No -- it works fine just like it does with all vehicles. It's not traction control that is the problem -- it's using cruise in the snow that is the problem, according to the experts, one of which is not you.

Defend poor design and implementation to the death, that is the Tesla cult motto.

Calm down. I never even commented on the obviously poor Tesla design of no heated radar and I hope it's fixed before I get my 3. My comment about using cruise control had nothing at all to do with Tesla. You posted wrong info and I corrected it. If you actually read my posts, you will see I often criticize Tesla so please lay off the "cult' nonsense.

As to the comment about a Tesla turning "from technological marvel to beater from the 1970's" when the radar doesn't work because of snow, it was a gross exaggeration and I simply pointed it out. I've been in many 70's beaters and there's no comparison to a Tesla without AP -- like mine.

Fragile ego much?

 

[AWDtsla]

No -- it works fine just like it does with all vehicles. It's not traction control that is the problem -- it's using cruise in the snow that is the problem, according to the experts, one of which is not you.



Calm down. I never even commented on the obviously poor Tesla design of no heated radar and I hope it's fixed before I get my 3. My comment about using cruise control had nothing at all to do with Tesla. You posted wrong info and I corrected it. If you actually read my posts, you will see I often criticize Tesla so please lay off the "cult' nonsense.

As to the comment about a Tesla turning "from technological marvel to beater from the 1970's" when the radar doesn't work because of snow, it was a gross exaggeration and I simply pointed it out. I've been in many 70's beaters and there's no comparison to a Tesla without AP -- like mine.

Fragile ego much?

You haven't corrected anything, you just backed into a corner of nonsense. So traction control is 100% disabled when cruise control is enabled? Got it. I will have to bow to your "expert" opinion.

 

[croman]

Despite numerous snowstorms, I haven't had this issue frequently. I think it boils down to snow type. Light powder will not accumulate like that (unless its salted, compacted, and slushy).

Wet snow likely poses the biggest risk. That being said, I think a heating element makes sense and I think it is a flaw not having it.

 

[Tam]

Elon Musk tweeted:

"Good thing about radar is that, unlike lidar (which is visible wavelength), it can see through rain, snow, fog and dust"

But this thread seems to suggest that works as long as snow on radar should be melted first so it can see through next.

Who is right? Can radar see through snow or not?

 

[cwerdna]

I have never, ever heard of the suggestion not to use cruise control in winter time.

Nothing to new to me.

AGES (decades) ago, I did use cruise control on an Dodge Caravan (now that old for its time) for a drive between WA state and SF Bay Area. There was pretty heavy rain on I-5 in Oregon. The car was definitely intermittently hydroplaning so sometimes w/cc enaged, you could hear the engine (and see it via the tach) revving pretty high due to lack of traction. And, once traction was regained, engine revs were back to normal. This happened MANY times.

Attached is a warning from my '13 Leaf manual. It does not and cannot have any sort of adaptive cruise control via radar, laser, etc.

Long ago, I'd heard of some Infinitis (in a car review) having overly nanny-like behavior refusing to engage CC if the wipers were on. Cruise Control Problem - MyG37 seems to confirm that.

EDIT: Owner's Manual on p. 5-30 says it cannot be used outside of 25 to 90 mph, while brakes are applied, when wipers are operating at speed LO or HI, or with VDC off. You must have a factory freak John.

Later posts mention the above seemed to only apply to their Intelligent CC.

 

[Joe F]

I have never, ever heard of the suggestion not to use cruise control in winter time.

Frankly, I'd consider it crazy talk, if I didn't hear it has been suggested in Canada where they actually should know what they are saying.

Winter is a normal part of life in a significant portion of the world. It is not a day to shutdown schools and go play in the snow.

Automated car systems definitely should work in winter conditions to a reasonable degree. "Avoid until spring", is not reasonable.

You should read more to become a safer driver. Start with any owners manual, or an easy Google search.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Let's forget about pre-ESP cruises. We're talking smarter cars here. ESP-era cruises disengage when ESP engages.

Are you guys really suggesting driver's aid features should not be used in snow? I have driven (mostly German) adaptive cruises in snow for the past eleven years without any issues (except the rare radar issue, very rare because of heating). I don't recall any training or manuals prohibiting this. Again, if a wheel slips, the car can disengage.

Snow covers the ground for a quarter or third of the year depending on where one lives. A blanket "don't" does not sound realistic or reasonable. Taking extra care is of course warranted.

Maybe this is one of those American vs. European things.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Later posts mention the above seemed to only apply to their Intelligent CC

It also prohibits the use of cruise in rain, if read that way.

This should be helpful for Tesla. SAE requires auto-wipers for autonomous cars, but Tesla can just deny AP2 driving in rain and thus the current lack of auto-wipers is no issue.

 

[googleiscoul]

Correct me if I am wrong but don't facelift ap2 cars have the radar under the Tesla logo? And at least for me I didn't see the snow getting in there and blocking it yet. I can see it being a problem during slush driving though - water resistant spray on the radar?

 

[jjh1234]

Correct me if I am wrong but don't facelift ap2 cars have the radar under the Tesla logo? And at least for me I didn't see the snow getting in there and blocking it yet. I can see it being a problem during slush driving though - water resistant spray on the radar?

I believe it's to the right of the T and the garage door transmitter is on the left.

 

[Joe F]

Let's forget about pre-ESP cruises. We're talking smarter cars here. ESP-era cruises disengage when ESP engages.

Are you guys really suggesting driver's aid features should not be used in snow? I have driven (mostly German) adaptive cruises in snow for the past eleven years without any issues (except the rare radar issue, very rare because of heating). I don't recall any training or manuals prohibiting this. Again, if a wheel slips, the car can disengage.

Snow covers the ground for a quarter or third of the year depending on where one lives. A blanket "don't" does not sound realistic or reasonable. Taking extra care is of course warranted.

Maybe this is one of those American vs. European things.

So the warning in your beloved Audi manual is what, fake views?

 

[croman]

Should not is a suggestion. Do not is an instruction.

 

[comanchepilot]

sure, lets use cruise control and AP during a snow storm where not only do you have impaired visibility but the car does too. . . .

 

[AnxietyRanger]

sure, lets use cruise control and AP during a snow storm where not only do you have impaired visibility but the car does too. . . .

Snow storm? We're talking about rather average winter days that seem to kill the AP2 radar, no snow storms.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

@Joe F

That is an American manual, the wordings in Europe are different. That said, I see nothing unreasonable in that - it suggests avoiding cruise control use when the road conditions are poor.

Not when there is snow in general. Snow is normal in winter time, not a poor condition.

But I get it, Tesla is a California car. Only use in fair weather!

 

[Canuck]

Are you guys really suggesting driver's aid features should not be used in snow?

Good question. I only commented in relation to cruise and snow/ice. We have a lot of heavy fog, especially this time of year through the mountain passes. I'm looking forward to this new technology that can easily "see" through the fog and tell me where the vehicle is in front, and also slowing me down in case I don't see it. I see a lot of potential for its use in bad weather so please don't take my comments wrong. I was only replying to the comments suggesting it's safe, or even safer, to use cruise in snow. It's not and it doesn't matter if the snow is on European or American roads.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

I was only replying to the comments suggesting it's safe, or even safer, to use cruise in snow. It's not and it doesn't matter if the snow is on European or American roads.

I liked your comment, though I disagree with this sentence. IMO a good adaptive cruise with ESP absolutely is safe to use in snow, for the same reason AP2 is safe to use in general - the driver remains in charge. There is nothing inherently dangerous about maintaining speed automatically, especially when the system knows how to disengage on slippage.

Autonomous vehicles will eventually have to be able to handle snow by themselves too, of course.