roblab
Active Member
Believe me, I've been well paid. 125,000 miles in 4.5 years. Best. Car. Ever. You make me blush.
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Articles re Tesla—Fact or Fiction?
- Thread starter Robert.Boston
- Start date
Believe me, I've been well paid. 125,000 miles in 4.5 years. Best. Car. Ever. You make me blush.
This is a bit OT, apologies. I first found out about this US tax rule 40 years ago (though didn't do me any good not living in the US) when friends and I were travelling to the Seattle area nearly every weekend to participate in grass and beach doubles and triples volleyball tournaments. After meeting a whole bunch of nice people, one couple actually invited a group of us to use their home's floor instead of us having to pay for hotels all the time. The only thing they asked was that we keep all our receipts for any purchase (i.e., juice, food, etc) and allow them to use those for their income tax.
I have to say, I thought then and I still think, that tax rule is logical. Or maybe I'm just jealous.
Sales tax was deductible back then, but that deduction went away for a while and came back a few years ago. I moved to Washington in the late 80s, I heard from old timers that there were a lot of receipt collectors because back then Washington had sales tax on everything including food. By the time I moved here the sales tax on food was gone, though they still tax some food items like soft drinks.
Washington doesn't have any state income tax, which does make tax time a little easier.
i found this response extremely funny to someone complaining about Tesla BEV's (bad) vs ICE (good) vis a vis fuel and batteries "getting used up"
""uou perhaps are overlooking that gasoline, while more energy dense than a battery, is 'single use'. And, don't forget that that gasoline gets 'hauled around' a lot, not just by your car...""
I enjoy Randy's comments from an engineering perspective (he is also a long term long
""uou perhaps are overlooking that gasoline, while more energy dense than a battery, is 'single use'. And, don't forget that that gasoline gets 'hauled around' a lot, not just by your car...""
I enjoy Randy's comments from an engineering perspective (he is also a long term long
GBleck
Member
SpaceX’s Careful Image Management Hides an Ugly Truth
More of a space-x hit piece but it includes a nice preamble of tesla bashing. Some classic bs techniques on calculating launch cadence over the last 4 years and extrapolating it linearly. Would love to know where this piece was funded.
More of a space-x hit piece but it includes a nice preamble of tesla bashing. Some classic bs techniques on calculating launch cadence over the last 4 years and extrapolating it linearly. Would love to know where this piece was funded.
GBleck
Member
Article was written by
George Landrith
George Landrith is President of Frontiers of Freedom.
FoF is a librarian pro tobacco and Exxon organization.
George Landrith
George Landrith is President of Frontiers of Freedom.
FoF is a librarian pro tobacco and Exxon organization.
One thing for Cramer to clown around, but CNBC and Yahoo are actually promoting this headline,
"You have to be on drugs to get Tesla's business"
TSLA : Summary for Tesla, Inc. - Yahoo Finance
The campaign to spread misinformation to consumers and investrors has only gotten bolder and more pervasive over the years. Isn't a libel suit overdue?
"You have to be on drugs to get Tesla's business"
TSLA : Summary for Tesla, Inc. - Yahoo Finance
The campaign to spread misinformation to consumers and investrors has only gotten bolder and more pervasive over the years. Isn't a libel suit overdue?
Unfortuneately from Teslas position it is protected opinion not directed at Tesla and Tesla would have a difficult time with damages. Interestingly it is directed at most of us on TMC who think we understand Tesla's business. Could someone make a case that they are saying an entire class of investors are on drugs which may be libel per se in most state? More likely it would be held to be sarcasm and an opinion however. Lots of freedom to be condescending to others.
Yes, I was wondering if a lawsuit from shareholders might make for a better path. I see your point, he is effectively saying all of us longs are on drugs, which is a false accusation which can damage our credibility with anyone who knows of our Tesla stock position. What's more, I can understand why Tesla is reluctant to divert attention and resources to a lawsuit.
Whether from Tesla or shareholders, I'm wondering, re the potential of a libel suit,
could you explain a little about "protected opinion" and your sense that it is not directed at Tesla?
does it make any difference that the headline is not in quotes?
does it make any difference that in the video story the headline links to, Cramer grossly misrepresents what Elon Musk said in the earnings call in Cramer's claiming examples of why he me made such a claim?
I assume you meant "libertarian".
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
I'm not sure it's false considering the euphoria when TSLA starts climbing, and the crash when it drops
For a lawsuit to stand up, you have to show damages and you have to have standing. Stockholders would be able to make a case for both, but their defense would be that there has been lots of bad investment advice given over the years. Those who were bears on Amazon in 1998 lost their shirts, but the investors who were denigrated in any bearish articles weren't hurt in the long run.
Libel and Slander suits are VERY difficult. In many cases you have to prove an intentional falsehood that is malicious. Then you need to prove that people believed it to your detriment/harm (damages). Finally if you are a Public Figure the law often presumes that you have an opportunity to refute the charge. Take a couple of examples George Bush I said read my lips no new taxes. That was not a lie since he probably intended that taxes not be raised but couldn't keep his promise. HRC was likely not a liar when she said she turned over all relevant emails because it was her opinion as to what was relevant at the time and a prosecuter would have to prove intentional deception. Opinion is almost always protected from Libel. Here is a crude example: Susie looks like a slut ---opinion. Susie is a prostitute --- fact and actionable. "not an advice" LOL
I'm not sure it's false considering the euphoria when TSLA starts climbing, and the crash when it drops
Also because people on here a lot smarter tahn me cannot undersand Solar City.
EDIT: Old men should not try to type with their thumbs
Sometimes FUD article takes the shape of an uninformed person spouting off in an email and that email gets wide distribution. Here's one that arrived from a pilot friend today and my reply follows below in green. Let's hope my reply makes the rounds as well.
Papafox
>From a Usually Factual, Retired, Fed-EX Capt.
Electric car, Eh?
As a "joke", the Chevy dealer gave me a Volt as a loaner while my full-size pick-up was getting some attention. He thought it was funny to give his energy company CEO this thing here on Vancouver Island ! I live 30 kms outside of Victoria BC near Sidney .
The battery was dead - later he admitted they almost never charged it. While the car was "ok", on gasoline, it was pretty anemic. So for the extra money, even taking into account Chev rebates and Provincial incentives, you get an under-powered, heavy car that felt "too small" for its actual size (battery has to go somewhere).
Now the kicker: at a neighborhood BBQ, I was talking to a Neighbor, a BC Hydro executive. I asked him how that renewable thing was doing. He laughed, then got serious. If you really intend to adopt electric vehicles, he pointed out, you had to face certain realities. For example, a home charging system for a Tesla requires 75 amp service. The average house is equipped with 100 amp service. On our small street (approximately 25 homes), the electrical infrastructure would be unable to carry more than 3 houses with a single Tesla, each. For even half the homes to have electric vehicles, the system would be wildly over-loaded.
This is the elephant in the room with electric vehicles. Our residential infrastructure cannot bear the load. So as our genius elected officials ram this nonsense down our collective throats, not only are we being forced to buy the damn things and replace our reliable, cheap generating systems with expensive, new windmills and solar cells, but we will also have to renovate our entire delivery system! This latter "investment" will not be revealed until we're so far down this dead end road that it will be presented with an oops and a shrug.
If you want to argue with a green person over cars that are eco-friendly, just read the below:
Note: However, if you ARE the green person, read it anyway. Enlightening.
Eric test drove the Chevy Volt at the invitation of General Motors...and he writes...For four days in a row, the fully charged battery lasted only 25 miles before the Volt switched to the reserve gasoline engine. Eric calculated the car got 30 mpg including the 25 miles it ran on the battery. So, the range including the 9 gallon gas tank and the 16 kwh battery is approximately 270 miles.
It will take you 4 1/2 hours to drive 270 miles at 60 mph. Then add 10 hours to charge the battery and you have a total trip time of 14.5 hours. In a typical road trip your average speed (including charging time) would be 20 mph.
According to General Motors, the Volt battery holds 16 kwh of electricity. It takes a full 10 hours to charge a drained battery. The cost for the electricity to charge the Volt is never mentioned so I looked up what I pay for electricity. I pay approximately (it varies with amount used and the seasons) $1.16 per kwh. 16 kwh x $1.16 per kwh = $18.56 to charge the battery. $18.56 per charge divided by 25 miles = $0.74 per mile to operate the Volt using the battery. Compare this to a similar size car with a gasoline engine that gets only 32 mpg. $3.19 per gallon divided by 32 mpg = $0.10 per mile.
The gasoline powered car costs about $15,000 while the Volt costs $46,000.........So the American Government wants proud and loyal Americans not to do the math, but simply pay 3 times as much for a car, that costs more than 7 times as much to run, and takes 3 times longer to drive across the country.
Note: Solar energy generation is the highest form of generation, just above wind generation. At this time, natural gas generation is one of the lowest forms of generation.
Hmm, this discussion is of very little value to weigh the pros and cons of electric vehicles. Why? First, the Chevy Volt is not a good choice. It uses a gas engine to charge a small battery and it runs the propulsion from an electric motor. This is like inventing an early car that uses a horse on a treadmill to provide the propulsion. It's like an airplane created by a committee, and we all know how well that concept works. A fully electric vehicle such as the Tesla is a much better comparison. The performance version of the car will do zero to 60 in 2.5 seconds. Anemic? Not unless you consider top of the line Ferraris and Porsches anemic in acceleration. Then there's the bit about speaking with one utility executive in Vancouver and taking his word that the world's electrical infrastructure cannot support more than 3 Teslas on a street. Well... in the little Lanikai neighborhood in the beach town of Kailua there are nearly a hundred Teslas now and the grid hasn't failed. Look also at the area in Palo Alto near Stanford University where Teslas are called Palo Alto Camrys because they're so numerous. Again, no crash of the grid. So, what are you going to believe, a doubting utility executive who's been drinking at a barbeque or are you willing to look at neighborhoods where Teslas are already common and have no problems? People who are doubtful about the genius of Elon Musk are welcome to short Tesla stock. They've been doing so since the stock was introduced at about $20. On Friday, Tesla closed up 12 points, at $308. Personally, I'd put my money on Elon and not on the word of one utility executive.
Papafox
Papafox
>From a Usually Factual, Retired, Fed-EX Capt.
Electric car, Eh?
As a "joke", the Chevy dealer gave me a Volt as a loaner while my full-size pick-up was getting some attention. He thought it was funny to give his energy company CEO this thing here on Vancouver Island ! I live 30 kms outside of Victoria BC near Sidney .
The battery was dead - later he admitted they almost never charged it. While the car was "ok", on gasoline, it was pretty anemic. So for the extra money, even taking into account Chev rebates and Provincial incentives, you get an under-powered, heavy car that felt "too small" for its actual size (battery has to go somewhere).
Now the kicker: at a neighborhood BBQ, I was talking to a Neighbor, a BC Hydro executive. I asked him how that renewable thing was doing. He laughed, then got serious. If you really intend to adopt electric vehicles, he pointed out, you had to face certain realities. For example, a home charging system for a Tesla requires 75 amp service. The average house is equipped with 100 amp service. On our small street (approximately 25 homes), the electrical infrastructure would be unable to carry more than 3 houses with a single Tesla, each. For even half the homes to have electric vehicles, the system would be wildly over-loaded.
This is the elephant in the room with electric vehicles. Our residential infrastructure cannot bear the load. So as our genius elected officials ram this nonsense down our collective throats, not only are we being forced to buy the damn things and replace our reliable, cheap generating systems with expensive, new windmills and solar cells, but we will also have to renovate our entire delivery system! This latter "investment" will not be revealed until we're so far down this dead end road that it will be presented with an oops and a shrug.
If you want to argue with a green person over cars that are eco-friendly, just read the below:
Note: However, if you ARE the green person, read it anyway. Enlightening.
Eric test drove the Chevy Volt at the invitation of General Motors...and he writes...For four days in a row, the fully charged battery lasted only 25 miles before the Volt switched to the reserve gasoline engine. Eric calculated the car got 30 mpg including the 25 miles it ran on the battery. So, the range including the 9 gallon gas tank and the 16 kwh battery is approximately 270 miles.
It will take you 4 1/2 hours to drive 270 miles at 60 mph. Then add 10 hours to charge the battery and you have a total trip time of 14.5 hours. In a typical road trip your average speed (including charging time) would be 20 mph.
According to General Motors, the Volt battery holds 16 kwh of electricity. It takes a full 10 hours to charge a drained battery. The cost for the electricity to charge the Volt is never mentioned so I looked up what I pay for electricity. I pay approximately (it varies with amount used and the seasons) $1.16 per kwh. 16 kwh x $1.16 per kwh = $18.56 to charge the battery. $18.56 per charge divided by 25 miles = $0.74 per mile to operate the Volt using the battery. Compare this to a similar size car with a gasoline engine that gets only 32 mpg. $3.19 per gallon divided by 32 mpg = $0.10 per mile.
The gasoline powered car costs about $15,000 while the Volt costs $46,000.........So the American Government wants proud and loyal Americans not to do the math, but simply pay 3 times as much for a car, that costs more than 7 times as much to run, and takes 3 times longer to drive across the country.
Note: Solar energy generation is the highest form of generation, just above wind generation. At this time, natural gas generation is one of the lowest forms of generation.
Hmm, this discussion is of very little value to weigh the pros and cons of electric vehicles. Why? First, the Chevy Volt is not a good choice. It uses a gas engine to charge a small battery and it runs the propulsion from an electric motor. This is like inventing an early car that uses a horse on a treadmill to provide the propulsion. It's like an airplane created by a committee, and we all know how well that concept works. A fully electric vehicle such as the Tesla is a much better comparison. The performance version of the car will do zero to 60 in 2.5 seconds. Anemic? Not unless you consider top of the line Ferraris and Porsches anemic in acceleration. Then there's the bit about speaking with one utility executive in Vancouver and taking his word that the world's electrical infrastructure cannot support more than 3 Teslas on a street. Well... in the little Lanikai neighborhood in the beach town of Kailua there are nearly a hundred Teslas now and the grid hasn't failed. Look also at the area in Palo Alto near Stanford University where Teslas are called Palo Alto Camrys because they're so numerous. Again, no crash of the grid. So, what are you going to believe, a doubting utility executive who's been drinking at a barbeque or are you willing to look at neighborhoods where Teslas are already common and have no problems? People who are doubtful about the genius of Elon Musk are welcome to short Tesla stock. They've been doing so since the stock was introduced at about $20. On Friday, Tesla closed up 12 points, at $308. Personally, I'd put my money on Elon and not on the word of one utility executive.
Papafox
Also $1.16 (even Canadan dollars) per kWh is usury, and frankly I don't believe it for a second.
Yeah, that's a fake number. The only people paying numbers like that are people who are on "not really a grid" grids powered by diesel generators. Anyone paying that should, of course, put up solar and batteries immediately.
Good point. This link shows electrical rates for Vancouver, B.C. It's about 8.5 cents/kwh for the first tier and 12.5 cents/kwh for the remainder of the bill.
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