Auto Pilot Is Dangerous

[qdeathstar]

never gonna happen...

 

[Knightshade]

I think bare minimum you should be asking for a loaner vehicle- there's 0 reason to expect you to put miles on something else you own while they fix a defective vehicle under warranty. What if you didn't HAVE another car?

As to trial and error- I guess that comes down to how often the problem really happens... you might've said someplace in the last 8 pages but I'm unsure... if it's something they'd (as it stands now) be able to find in an hour or two of driving they ought to do so anytime they "think" it's fixed before calling you.... if it's something that goes days of driving between happening that's a lot bigger ask for what are already busy SCs.

 

[sduck]

See if you can get them to give you a loaner or rental until it's definitely fixed. Make sure they understand it's a 4 hour trip, and that driving back and forth is unacceptable (<<that's a really good word to use in negotiations like this).

I don't know why they need to do a trial and error thing - it should be pretty easy to determine if autopilot is working or not.

 

[KenC]

****UPDATE*****

the SC called Me today and told me they completed the remote diagnostic with the corporate engineers. He told me they were unable to pin point the cause of the autopilot problem,SO they ordered a bunch of parts and they plan to have me drop off the car next Wednesday Nov 20. Their plan is to start replacing parts until the problem is solved. When I asked how long? He said it will be a trial and error type of situation. They replace a couple parts and I pickup the car. If the issue continues then I drop off the car again and they replace more parts. While I’m glad they have a plan and he told me he bid committed to resolving the issue, driving 4 hours round trip isn’t fun for me not to mention wasting of my time from work. And mist of all what about the 160 mile round trip I would put in my leased car which is another list for me. Is this a fair deal or am I being too Whiny.

Yeah, it sucks. That's the risk of leasing with mileage limitation and a service center so far away. I would definitely want to know their complete thinking about what parts they think they should replace. Make sure you agree with their strategy, in order to minimize trips.

 

[DopeGhoti]

Is this a fair deal

Given that you live so far from the service center that it's basically a day trip, I'd suggest asking them if they're willing to test the car themselves before having you come by to give it a lookie-loo after replacing things, if for no other reason than to reduce the number of trips you have to make, as well as reducing the potential number of times they have your car occupying a slot in their service inventory.

 

[Az_Rael]

engineers cants figure out the issue on a brand new car, they should replace it and keep the car to chase the ghost in the system.

You will have to meet the lemon law rules in your state to go this route most likely. Usually states have rules about the time out of service or the number of repair attempts before you can file. Normally once your car meets the state requirements, Tesla will work with you on a manufacturer buyback vs you having to actually go thru the lemon process.

Downside is if your state allows 3 or 4 repair attempts, you will have to let Tesla go thru all that even though the service center is so far away.

 

[SoManyM3s]

So the interesting thing about this thread is, the videos clearly show that autopilot is not working as it should. This user definitely has the right to complain. My car does not do what his does. With V10, there is increased wiggle room within the lane so the car does ping pong a bit more but never as severe as this gentleman's car. There are people telling him this is expected and its beta and he shouldn't complain. These same people, if they had the same issues as this user, they'd complain too. I'm disappointed on how quickly people are judging this user to be not vigilant enough. Thank you for taking this to Tesla as this will make our cars better. Keep doing you, my friend. Ignore the haters and unrealists in this forum.

 

[Toppatop55]

You will have to meet the lemon law rules in your state to go this route most likely. Usually states have rules about the time out of service or the number of repair attempts before you can file. Normally once your car meets the state requirements, Tesla will work with you on a manufacturer buyback vs you having to actually go thru the lemon process.

Downside is if your state allows 3 or 4 repair attempts, you will have to let Tesla go thru all that even though the service center is so far away.

Interesting....I wonder if the lemon law would apply in my condition since my state doesn’t even allow the sales of Tesla’s. Not saying this qualifies

 

[Az_Rael]

Interesting....I wonder if the lemon law would apply in my condition since my state doesn’t even allow the sales of Tesla’s. Not saying this qualifies

Well, that would certainly be an interesting case. Especially if you are getting service out of state.

 

[Knightshade]

Interesting....I wonder if the lemon law would apply in my condition since my state doesn’t even allow the sales of Tesla’s. Not saying this qualifies

Lemon Law Eligibility Tool

Click on the tool- if you answer "new" to purchased new/used...but then answer you didn't buy it IN the state of CT, it tells you you are not eligible to file under the CT lemon law.

So if it's a case of the actual sale happened in another state and then it was just delivered to CT, sounds like you're out of luck with that....

(though they'd also need to fail to repair it multiple times before you'd otherwise be eligible anyway)

 

[Az_Rael]

Click on the tool- if you answer "new" to purchased new/used...but then answer you didn't buy it IN the state of CT, it tells you you are not eligible to file under the CT lemon law.

That is a pretty big potential downside to buying a Tesla in a non-allowed state that really hasn't been discussed much. Sure, no one plans to buy a lemon, but if you end up in that boat you would then have to rely solely on Tesla's goodwill to rectify the situation.

 

[Knightshade]

That is a pretty big potential downside to buying a Tesla in a non-allowed state that really hasn't been discussed much. Sure, no one plans to buy a lemon, but if you end up in that boat you would then have to rely solely on Tesla's goodwill to rectify the situation.

Well, you still have the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act which is essentially a federal lemon law (though it applies to more than cars) under which you could take legal action to enforce the warranty in such a case.

 

[GreenT]

AFAIK there's been 3 confirmed deaths on AP, in over a billion miles of driving.

2 of them were idiots using AP some place the manual explicitly says not to do so.

snip

Mind telling their families they were idiots???

 

[Knightshade]

Mind telling their families they were idiots???

I mean- if they read my posts, I already did.

Any death is tragic. Avoidable deaths perhaps most of all.

Those guys died entirely due to their own user error not only using a system someplace it's explicitly not meant to be used, but then relying on it a way it's explicitly not meant to be relied on.

Idiot is pretty apt. Tragic idiot if you like, but idiot nonetheless.

 

[Daniel in SD]

My bet is that it's the steering rack.
This seems like the type of issue where they should buy back the car and ship it to Fremont to be examined. It’s really bad that the system can’t detect that there is a problem.

 

[Judders]

Why are you giving him such a hard time. Even as Beta something is extremely wrong. And "Beta" is no excuse. I'd be pissed.

Now we don't know if it's a legitimate bug, due to glare in his left camera or what but he should get some reasonable answer than just "it's beta, live with it". I sure would like to know the root cause.

He's sharing his experience and Tesla's response for others. And I appreciate it.

It’s because like all forums there are always the asshole armchair quarterbacks that like to show their godly expertise on something they have zero clue on.

Yes it’s beta, yes we should be able to assume
control, would a GoPro mounted be better then a cell phone (note that is from The thread I’ve yet to get to see the video) yes but in the situation if one hand is available then I’m not to judge that decision.

All owners have spent a lot of money for a car that some day should be fully self driving. That to me means at that point I can sit in any seat and not have to take over the car at any given moment. The beta version to me requires twice the effort and work to be paying attention and that delay to take over puts everyone in a higher Risk scenario for any incident

I hope they figure out the issue because mines never acted like this is described

 

[Judders]

And as for the parts replacement and the and commute I’d demand they give you a rental as well. Fix the parts and test it. They have clearly shown there is an issue and they’re going to fix it. Shouldn’t be your job to do all the testing in between.


Now if they fix it and feel it’s fixed I understand them having you keep an eye on it going forward and unfortunately you live away from a service center, nature of the beast . But in no way should you be the one testing their work to fix the problem.

I got a rental for a week and a free high power wall charger while they repaired me with a new delivery as mine had a paint damaged hood. I have been shown nothing but good customer care and I’m sure if you ask you would get the same through them or through your insurance for a rental. Ask/telling them doesn’t hurt

 

[tr1sk]

Glad that OP finally got some action of out of Tesla but the "trial and error" parts replacement scheme is almost as disturbing as the original problem. You think they would be able to pretty quickly rule out certain parts, like they would be able to run some sort of diagnostic on all cameras and determine those were OK. Then verify the software installation, etc. and then just be left with the steering rack / power steering motor as sources of the problem. The fact that according to OP, the problem is intermittent probably doesn't help their remote diagnosis.

 

[theStig]

To the OP, taking your video to the media will have more weight than showing it on a Tesla forum. The public sees, the government listens.

For example, smart summon is no longer covered by insurance here because of videos that showed up on the news.

Sad to hear of all the deaths by a BETA autopilot system that should have only been allowed on QUALIFIED and TRAINED testers vehicles. A button tap to agree is not good enough.

https://driving.ca/tesla/auto-news/...rless-smart-summon-feature-not-allowed-in-b-c

 

[Kevy Baby]

Sad to hear of all the deaths by a BETA autopilot system...

Please point me to articles that prove that Autopilot has caused deaths. Just because AP was ON when a fatal accident occurred does not mean that AP was the cause. Of the fatalities that occurred in a car where AP was on, none were CAUSED by a failure of AP.

AP is there to assist the driver, not replace them. The driver is still responsible to pay attention while driving and take evasive measures when needed.

Cruise Control helps maintain a consistent speed - the driver still needs to stop/control the car
Power Steering helps making steering easier - the driver still needs to steer
Power Brakes help stop the car - the driver still needs to press the brake pedal
Auto Pilot helps drive the car - the driver still needs to pay attention, keep their hands on the wheel, and keep their feet where they can apply the brakes in the event of an emergency.