AutoPilot Buddy now officially banned in USA!

[Jonathantuba]

I got an Autopilot buddy not because I am some irresponsible person who is going to sleep or watch videos, or even text while driving - but because on recent roadtrip I was put in Autopilot Jail 4 times because I WAS looking at the road ahead and paying attention and as a result did not notice the nags on the display. So I loose the use of Autopilot just when I need it most to aid safe stress free driving.

The simple fact is the present Tesla nags do not work and are there I am sure only because of legal advice to protect Tesla.

A far better system would be eye detection to check attention to the road. I would willingly pay Tesla to fit such camera to my model X to get the current nags switched off - and I am sure a lot of other Tesla drivers would also.

I am not planning using the Autopilot Buddy daily, but just keeping it for long drives where the 30 second nags get annoying to say the least. I have so far only trialed it on short drive, but it does seem to work.

 

[Interferon]

I just put a exercise wrist weight on the steering wheel. It is the only thing that makes EAP usable on long trips.

 

[HankLloydRight]

So when Tesla didn't have nags, they were as negligent as the people making this product?

Yes, and people died because of it and put the lives of others at risk. So Tesla changed their position and increased the nags. Rules (and laws, ahem) are supposed to change and adapt given new inputs and new data. As Darwin would say "adapt or die."

Because all this does is return to that setup.

Reverting back to a previous known unsafe and dangerous state is the opposite of adaptation. Good luck with that.

 

[Interferon]

Yes, and people died because of it and put the lives of others at risk. So Tesla changed their position and increased the nags. Rules (and laws, ahem) are supposed to change and adapt given new inputs and new data. As Darwin would say "adapt or die."



Reverting back to a previous known unsafe and dangerous state is the opposite of adaptation. Good luck with that.

It wasn't so much a safety improver than a CYA move for the lawyers. There hasn't been a drastic change in AP incidents since the nag policy was implemented.

If you want to make perfectly safe vehicles, you should limit them to 5 MPH. That would virtually eliminate the 40,000 deaths per year caused by vehicle accidents in the USA.

Of course, most people are willing to compromise some degree of safety for going faster.

The point being that different people have different risk tolerances, so they should get to decide what risks they are willing to take, not the nanny state (or nanny Tesla).

 

[Electroman]

So Tesla changed their position and increased the nags.

Yes the safety is now improved because less people use AP. In fact if they make the nag to one second, then AP related accidents will go down to zero, as no one will use it. Voila problem solved.

It is the same reason why Mercedes, Suburu and Nissan's systems have no related accidents.

 

[Sir Guacamolaf]

You can keep blaming it on nag defeaters, or crashing idiots, but lets be honest where the real blame lies.

Tesla has failed to deliver FSD and reliable AP.

There, I said it.

 

[Sir Guacamolaf]

Yes the safety is now improved because less people use AP. In fact if they make the nag to one second, then AP related accidents will go down to zero, as no one will use it. Voila problem solved.

Exactly. The damn thing nags even if I have my hands on the steering wheel now. Effectively, they have removed AP.

 

[Interferon]

You can keep blaming it on nag defeaters, or crashing idiots, but lets be honest where the real blame lies.

Tesla has failed to deliver FSD and reliable AP.

There, I said it.

That is true, but as a software engineer, I sympathize with Tesla because of how hard the problem is.
What I don't sympathize with is that they sold FSD before they knew they could deliver. And they don't give the driver an option to disable the various nags for EAP and the seat belt.

 

[Sir Guacamolaf]

That is true, but as a software engineer, I sympathize with Tesla because of how hard the problem is.
What I don't sympathize with is that they sold FSD before they knew they could deliver. And they don't give the driver an option to disable the various nags for EAP and the seat belt.

I'm with you on that 100%. It was never easy, but they sold this snake oil with 100% assertion and false confidence that they will deliver on it. Also, in the software industry it is a well known fact how poor Tesla's software management practices are, and that combined with high turnover, also probably hasn't helped the cause.

 

[Jonathantuba]

Tesla has failed to deliver FSD and reliable AP.

I personally am impressed with the reliability of the latest Autopilot (2018.32.2). I drove over 100 miles today, mostly using Autopilot on a variety of types of roads, including small ones with just centre line and it proved surprisingly reliable. On main well marked roads, I never had to intervene and even on those small roads I was only intervening about once every 10 miles and that was more for my peace of mind (getting too near for comfort) rather than Autopilot was not working.

I had the Autopilot Buddy fitted and although it reduced nags, I was still getting them about every 10 minutes which is probably a nice compromise between none and every 30 seconds.

For FSD I did not pay for that, as personally think it is many years away. I can’t see how it can work unless all cars are so fitted and some roads are redesigned. Like how is it going to decide who has priority on single track roads? That requires human judgment based on the actions of the other driver.

 

[ulrichw]

[...] There hasn't been a drastic change in AP incidents since the nag policy was implemented.[...]

Source?

 

[PhilDavid]

So when Tesla didn't have nags, they were as negligent as the people making this product? Because all this does is return to that setup. Or is it that whatever the NTSB says is infallible, even when it changes. Since the Feds are God, we must slavishly do whatever they think is best for us.

Also, none of the people that crashed their Teslas while in Autopilot mode had one of these devices on their car. It was the crashing idiots that created the nags, not the nag-defeaters.

Wow. You do realize that that all this device does is invite more of the "idiots" you mentioned to crash their cars while harming themselves and others?

When Tesla released this feature it was a first for the automotive industry and they assumed that customers would use the feature in a responsible way. When it was evident some did not, they introduced additional safety measures to make it more likely that customers would use Autopilot in a responsible way. Tesla continues to refine how Autopilot is implemented and used to maximize the safety of customers and save lives.

Your moral equivalency of Tesla working to keep customer safe and save lives with a tool whose whole purpose in life is to bypass said safety measures reminds me of the absence of common sense, facts, and logic prevalent in some corners society these days.

Tesla should be commended for how much they have done to advance autonomous and semi autonomous driving technologies but with the advancements comes great responsibility to ensure the software is used as designed. If a bunch of more people crashed their cars while not paying attention, none of us will have Autopilot any more.

 

[Interferon]

Wow. You do realize that that all this device does is invite more of the "idiots" you mentioned to crash their cars while harming themselves and others?

When Tesla released this feature it was a first for the automotive industry and they assumed that customers would use the feature in a responsible way. When it was evident some did not, they introduced additional safety measures to make it more likely that customers would use Autopilot in a responsible way. Tesla continues to refine how Autopilot is implemented and used to maximize the safety of customers and save lives.

Your moral equivalency of Tesla working to keep customer safe and save lives with a tool whose whole purpose in life is to bypass said safety measures reminds me of the absence of common sense, facts, and logic prevalent in some corners society these days.

Tesla should be commended for how much they have done to advance autonomous and semi autonomous driving technologies but with the advancements comes great responsibility to ensure the software is used as designed. If a bunch of more people crashed their cars while not paying attention, none of us will have Autopilot any more.

I sure am glad that Tesla always knows the perfect risk/convenience trade-off for their nag settings. Because of their omniscience, they knew to set to 20 seconds instead of 2 minutes or 20 minutes or 2 seconds (at least for this week). Just like the Pope, whatever nag interval they choose for whatever the current version is is infallible.

I know I am too dumb to choose my level of risk vs convenience, because I'm not God, unlike Tesla or the NTSB. Any attempt of me choosing that risk level for myself is blasphemous, just like Lucifer when he put himself above God.

 

[PhilDavid]

I sure am glad that Tesla always knows the perfect risk/convenience trade-off for their nag settings. Because of their omniscience, they knew to set to 20 seconds instead of 2 minutes or 20 minutes or 2 seconds (at least for this week). Just like the Pope, whatever nag interval they choose for whatever the current version is is infallible.

I know I am too dumb to choose my level of risk vs convenience, because I'm not God, unlike Tesla or the NTSB. Any attempt of me choosing that risk level for myself is blasphemous, just like Lucifer when he put himself above God.

The point being Tesla are not perfect but they are doing the best they can with the end goal of saving lives and keeping their customers safe. This "device" is not helping.

 

[Electroman]

If the goal is for Tesla to have zero incidents in AP they should disable AP completely. Now they have made it partially useless and it has apparently reduced accidents. Make it fully useless then problem is solved fully.

That is how my Honda gets 100% reliability. They were smart and did not even put any autonomous features at all.

By the same argument if we ban cars then there won’t be any car accidents.

 

[Xminus6]

The point being Tesla are not perfect but they are doing the best they can with the end goal of saving lives and keeping their customers safe. This "device" is not helping.

I literally just returned from a 800 mile round trip and have to say that EAP is almost useless now. I got restricted from AP usage twice and I never had my hands OFF of the steering wheel. The nags now required you to not only hold your hands in the very specific 10-2 o’clock positions, but also to jiggle the wheel almost constantly. When I’m driving long distances I like to hook my thumbs over the bottom of the wheel and rest my hands on my legs but AP will never detect that, even though I have a grip on the wheel.

I eventually just turned AP off because it was MORE distracting and irritating to constantly have to watch if I was getting the “light force” message than it was to just drive it myself. So why did I pay for EAP again?

 

[bro1999]

I literally just returned from a 800 mile round trip and have to say that EAP is almost useless now. I got restricted from AP usage twice and I never had my hands OFF of the steering wheel. The nags now required you to not only hold your hands in the very specific 10-2 o’clock positions, but also to jiggle the wheel almost constantly. When I’m driving long distances I like to hook my thumbs over the bottom of the wheel and rest my hands on my legs but AP will never detect that, even though I have a grip on the wheel.

I eventually just turned AP off because it was MORE distracting and irritating to constantly have to watch if I was getting the “light force” message than it was to just drive it myself. So why did I pay for EAP again?

Sounds like until Tesla implements some kind of eye monitoring hardware, that is about the best you can expect from AP (unless they reduce the nags). I still think most of the AP fiasco would have been avoided if it had been named something that better reflected its actually ability. I'm sure you would have still had the risk takers abusing AP like they have, but perhaps there would have been a lot less scrutiny of AP if it was called "Co-Pilot Assist" instead of "Autopilot".

 

[HankLloydRight]

Look like I won't be upgrading from 2018.18 anytime soon.

 

[mongo]

I literally just returned from a 800 mile round trip and have to say that EAP is almost useless now. I got restricted from AP usage twice and I never had my hands OFF of the steering wheel. The nags now required you to not only hold your hands in the very specific 10-2 o’clock positions, but also to jiggle the wheel almost constantly. When I’m driving long distances I like to hook my thumbs over the bottom of the wheel and rest my hands on my legs but AP will never detect that, even though I have a grip on the wheel.

I eventually just turned AP off because it was MORE distracting and irritating to constantly have to watch if I was getting the “light force” message than it was to just drive it myself. So why did I pay for EAP again?

It is not grip that it detects, it is torque. Rather than buy a defeat device, try driving with only one hand on the wheel.

 

[Need]

It is not grip that it detects, it is torque. Rather than buy a defeat device, try driving with only one hand on the wheel.

That's what I do now, one hand AP, two hand regular driving. BTW, after owning the model 3 for a week, I found that AP nags a LOT less on the model 3 than the model X. Both are on AP 2.5, but on the X, even with one hand on the wheel, I still get some nags. Maybe because the model 3 steering wheel is much smaller so require less force to detect hands on wheel?