AutoPilot Buddy now officially banned in USA!

[d21mike]

As a follow-up, Consumer Reports in their review of the Cadillac Super Cruise (Cadillac Super Cruise May Lead to Safe Hands-Free Driving) notes that:

"offers convenience without trading off on safety"
"It may seem counterintuitive that keeping your hands off the wheel could be safer, but in this case, it helps to reduce ambiguity over control, Fisher says."

Essentially saying their belief is that the driver engagement is what provides the safer environment and not whether or not the driver has their hands on the wheel.

I just read part of the article and found the following below pretty interesting. I normally keep 1 hand on the wheel. But with the Cadillac I would be forced to keep hands OFF the wheel and CR feels this is SAFER. I wish the people that say you have to have 2 hands on the wheel to be SAFER would read this and give their opinion.

1. Do you feel CR is just crazy. And really not a good source for this kind of information?
2. The Cadillac is simply so far advanced then Tesla AP that there is no way they could get into an accident and ever need to put there hands on the wheel "quickly".

CR is starting to change my mind. Or maybe Cadillac's implementation could cause more accidents because if a real emergency the driver would not be able to take over quick enough. Call me confused......

Drivers will want to keep their hands off of the wheel, because if they don't, they could inadvertently turn Super Cruise off. The system understands that when the driver puts pressure on the steering wheel, the driver's intent is to change lanes, or take control. A driver resting his hands on the wheel while Super Cruise is engaged will only confuse the system.

 

[graphic]

You want the nag interval reversed, and since the nags are not a problem if you keep your hands on the wheel and Tesla has no other means to make sure you pay attention you basically want a system that doesn`t bother you and just drives by itself without making sure you`re paying attention at all...
And that`s level 4!

We all want Level 1 back, or something similar, however, the NHTSA and a handful of people like you ruin it. You need to go work for NHTSA and wear a badge so you can "really" be the Auto Pilot Police.

 

[IhateOPEC]

So, I am an airline pilot. I have just a small amount of experience with human-automation interface. Can you guess how many aircraft require your hands on the controls for the automation to work?

Zero.

One of the benefits of low level automation is the way it expands your awareness of what is going on around you. If you are constantly having to jiggle the controls and focus on proving to the system that you are still there you remove one of the things that make the system safer.

Imagine if it nagged every 3 seconds. How safe would it be to use? Every second? More alarms the better?

Me pulling on the wheel has zero correlation to how engaged I am. It's a CYA move that was put into place by lawyers who have no practical experience with these systems.

 

[Phrixotrichus]

We all want Level 1 back, or something similar, however, the NHTSA and a handful of people like you ruin it. You need to go work for NHTSA and wear a badge so you can "really" be the Auto Pilot Police.

Cry me a river. And after you`ve done that you should probably check Tesla`s official Autopilot documentation/description. You´ve never been in the right. It was just Tesla that didn`t follow through with the regulations in the past. They simply were forced to correct that. And no amount of whining from people who want their hands free system back that never was supposed to be hands free will change that.

The only chance for the nags to be reduced again is if the system itself makes tremendous progress.

So, I am an airline pilot. I have just a small amount of experience with human-automation interface. Can you guess how many aircraft require your hands on the controls for the automation to work?

Zero.

One of the benefits of low level automation is the way it expands your awareness of what is going on around you. If you are constantly having to jiggle the controls and focus on proving to the system that you are still there you remove one of the things that make the system safer.

Imagine if it nagged every 3 seconds. How safe would it be to use? Every second? More alarms the better?

Me pulling on the wheel has zero correlation to how engaged I am. It's a CYA move that was put into place by lawyers who have no practical experience with these systems.

Comparing airspace with usually several kilometers and different altitudes between the plains with something like LA traffic.....yeah right.

 

[Snowstorm]

I applaud them for doing something about it, though this is not the right solution. I mean common, what is auto-steer if you have to sort of steer every few seconds yourself? Would you accept a cruise control as a cost added option if 3 months after you buy the car it all of a sudden changed and would only work if you lightly tap the gas paddle every few seconds?

The real solution should be for Tesla to improve EAP (or just AP period) such that it doesn't require this type of hack. Note that I am not advocating inattentive driving, I am just saying that we shouldn't have to try to steer the wheel in order for auto-steer to work.

Tesla, if you guys are reading this, please FIX AP and set the nag interval to something more reasonable. Every 20 seconds effectively neuters this expensive feature that some may have even bought the car because of it.

I won't buy buy AP buddy for $200, but maybe a $10 wrist weight will do the trick...

 

[DarkMatter]

Cadillac currently has a better system within their operational domain. Tesla has a system that operates in more places but with a higher risk of failure. Both are pretty much pressing the tech as far as it can go in the mass market. They have made different tradeoffs about how they get there.

 

[DarkMatter]

So, hold the wheel exactly as I would in normal driving and ensure I apply torque to the wheel? Sounds like the definition of driving the car without EAP. Would be arguably, possibly safer.

As an aside you guys are also keeping your foot resting on the brake as well so that you can react as quickly to braking situations a? If not, why not? Maybe Tesla should add a Brake Nag as well to make everything even safer?

I position my foot as I do for cruise: on the floor in a good position for a quick brake application.

I can't speak to your experience, of course. I find it quite relaxing to use AP on the highway, even with my hands on the wheel. The few times I have had to dodge objects in the road, it has been ideal to have my hands on the wheel ready to react. I would love to go hands free but the tech just is not there yet.

 

[SSonnentag]

My post had nothing do do with anyone's specific tech. You stated you could not find any information about hands on vs hands off and change in safety if intervention was needed. I only provided the logical line of progression that shows a link. Feel free to refute any link or the conclusion.

Do you lightly rest your foot on the brake at all times while your car is moving? If not, you're driving unsafely . . according to your own logic.

 

[jelloslug]

Do you lightly rest your foot on the brake at all times while your car is moving? If not, you're driving unsafely . . according to your own logic.

That train of though makes no sense.

 

[SSonnentag]

That train of though makes no sense.

He was lamenting the time it takes to grab the steering wheel in the even of AP failure. It's the same reaction time it would take to move a foot to the brake in the event of a cruise control or object in the road event.

 

[mongo]

Do you lightly rest your foot on the brake at all times while your car is moving? If not, you're driving unsafely . . according to your own logic.

He was lamenting the time it takes to grab the steering wheel in the even of AP failure. It's the same reaction time it would take to move a foot to the brake in the event of a cruise control or object in the road event.

No lamenting, and I am not addressing driving logic.
The root question I was addressing :

There is absolutely no data I can find that says having your hands on the wheel is safer than not having your hands on the wheel if in both cases you are paying attention to the driving conditions around you.

To which I was replying that moving your hands to the wheel and steering takes longer than having your hands on the wheel and steering. Given time/ distance is critical for reacting, the extra time taken does reduce safety.

Moving your foot to the brake and then braking also takes longer than having your foot on the brake and braking. Should all people drive two footed because of that? Not an issue I am concerned with. Although it was previously asked and answered...

As an aside you guys are also keeping your foot resting on the brake as well so that you can react as quickly to braking situations a? If not, why not? Maybe Tesla should add a Brake Nag as well to make everything even safer?

Non-Tesla owner: if I am in a situation where I think the brake will be needed, I don't use ACC...
When driving normally, I don't have my foot over the brake either, it's on the accelerator.

 

[insaneoctane]

Ironically, I never would have considered this product for a variety of reasons. But, with the latest update, EAP nags me so much that I actually started to consider something like this. Something to remove the nags, even if my hands are actually on the wheel. Of course with a defeat device, you lose the ability for the system to legitimately get your attention! Of course, I would prefer to go back to the previous nag timings and make this all go away.

 

[jelloslug]

He was lamenting the time it takes to grab the steering wheel in the even of AP failure. It's the same reaction time it would take to move a foot to the brake in the event of a cruise control or object in the road event.

Except that nobody drives with their foot lightly resting on the brake pedal under normal conditions.

 

[MP3Mike]

Perhaps they should rename to Not-An-AutoPilot-Buddy.

I still prefer it being called the death donut.

 

[SSonnentag]

Except that nobody drives with their foot lightly resting on the brake pedal under normal conditions.

Exactly, that's my point. Why is it an issue to drive with hands off, but it's fine to drive with foot off?

 

[bro1999]

Brace yourselves! For the rush on oranges!

Actually, I've heard that the orange AP trick got quashed. Is that true?

 

[MorrisonHiker]

Oh I see...…you are going to deny it all.

No one has gone to sleep at the wheel of a Tesla on autopilot. You know this for sure?

See Supercharger - Emporia, KS and more info later at Supercharger - Emporia, KS

Now in no way shape or form am I blaming Tesla or autopilot for this by any means! I just simply fell asleep about a mile before the toll.

 

[SSonnentag]

Constantly trying to turn the steering wheel, however lightly, does not ensure a driver is attentive any more than driving with your foot on the throttle ensures that you're paying attention. Both are simply nuisances during routine travel. Cruise control has addressed the foot issue for decades while AP initially addressed the hands issue, but has now regressed.

 

[mongo]

Exactly, that's my point. Why is it an issue to drive with hands off, but it's fine to drive with foot off?

I never said there was an issue, only that it takes longer to turn the steering wheel if your hands are not on it to begin with. And, by extension, you have less time to prevent an accident. Is that time measurable: yes. Is it significant: possibly, I don't know, nor do I care (for the purpose of my original post).

Not addressing methods of ensuring attention, just the physical time to act.

 

[IhateOPEC]

Comparing airspace with usually several kilometers and different altitudes between the plains with something like LA traffic.....yeah right.

Obviously it's different, however if the automation becomes a distraction *cough* requiring constant tugging/ beeping every 25 seconds *cough* we are trained to turn it off. It is there as an aid. If it isn't aiding you get rid of it.