Autopilot lane keeping still not available over 6 months after delivery

[gizmoboy]

lol. Jokes aside, I don't care about the motivation. Just time and time again over the past year or so it's been proven that Musk and/or Tesla can no longer be trusted when it comes to when things are going to happen (ex: autopilot) or the details about those things (ex: P85D range/horsepower, Model X cargo space, towing capability, etc). The only exception so far on my end since I've been a Tesla owner that I've seen where he said something and it happened when he said it would was that v7 would be out Thursday and it was, for the USA at least... and that was only after failing on earlier predictions, so, not sure if that counts or not.

I mean, if there are counter examples that go against this in the past year or so, by all means share... but I can only work with the facts here.

I know you don't want to hear about Apple , but I have to say that they do it right; CEO doesn't make many off-the-cuff announcements, but generally when he says something's going to be ready on thus-and-such a date, it is.

Of course, you never really hear Cook talk about future products or features with anything but the vaguest allusions either.

Pick your poison. I find value in both, but Musk's enthusiastic CEO-isms are definitely frustrating when it comes to the "when" bit...

 

[wk057]

It's twitter. Reactions like this is going to end up with you getting no info rather than the best possible information he had, which may have been wrong.

That'd be fine. I'd rather have no info than wrong info.

I'm sorry but you're buying into the nonsense that presents Elon as some super human. He's not. He's a fallible human being. He's running two companies. I seriously doubt he was micro managing the regulatory approvals. Just because he has the latest internal builds on his car that he tests on his commute doesn't mean that he's sitting in every meeting on the regulatory issues.

If you think I'm in the Elon Musk fan club, I think you're mistaking me for someone else. lol. Seems like regulatory issues to hold up the announced debut of a prominent feature of the car would be important to know about before speaking about it. Then again, he has spoken about the regulatory aspects publicly in the past... I guess he's not paying attention to them though and just making these things up too? (based on your logic)

Truth is once v7 ships to Europe/Asia nobody is going to remember this little delay.

Doubtful.

Well, having dealt with several CEOs in my career, I can speak to this. They typically don't know squat about regulatory requirements. More likely is he heard from engineering that 'it's ready to roll, world-wide' and went with that.

Can't tell you how many times not only have regulatory requirements been ignored, but the whole yes to 'is it done yet?' also didn't include finance being ready to take orders (for a new product), sales people not trained, manufacturing not ready, service not ready, spare parts not in stock, etc. "But the engineering is done!!'. Yes, but not the product.

And regulatory (though I said I wasn't getting into this) can be somewhat tricky. Things that everyone assumes are fine and requiring no further testing are likely not fine and do require further testing (what? why do we need to do UL emissions testing again? Both of these items are already certified! Why do we have to do it when they're together! This makes no sense. You're crazzzzzy.)

Bottom line is Musk identifies with the engineering team and finds legal/regulatory/comms/PR all an annoyance. I'm sure he didn't think there were further regulatory rqmts.

Probably right. The constant misinformation is none the less annoying, however.

Describing the missteps as "lying" is not utilizing a factual basis, it's supposition born of bias.

Lying was probably a bit strong, but the track record is certainly growing in that direction.

- - - Updated - - -

I know you don't want to hear about Apple , but I have to say that they do it right; CEO doesn't make many off-the-cuff announcements, but generally when he says something's going to be ready on thus-and-such a date, it is.

Of course, you never really hear Cook talk about future products or features with anything but the vaguest allusions either.

Pick your poison. I find value in both, but Musk's enthusiastic CEO-isms are definitely frustrating when it comes to the "when" bit...

Agreed.

 

[breser]

I mean, if there are counter examples that go against this in the past year or so, by all means share... but I can only work with the facts here.

85D shipped in February.
Elon said 1-2 months for AutoSteering in August and they hit that for North America.
Rear consoles showed up in the store and were received by buyers quickly there after.
70D started shipping basically on announcement.
90 kWh vehicles started shipping basically on announcement.

I'm sure there are a bunch more examples of things going as Tesla promised. But those are the ones that come to mind. I'll note that a lot of newer product launches have gone pretty much as you'd like.

 

[wk057]

85D shipped in February.

Sure, but not until after missing a bunch of P85D December deliveries and barely making others (mine was three weeks delayed and would have been cancelled if it slipped to 2015). But yeah, I guess they did get the 85D out on time for most.

Elon said 1-2 months for AutoSteering in August and they hit that for North America.

heh! Elon Musk's predictions on Autopilot's timeline definitely do not count for anything given the fact that basically every time he was asked about it over the past year he gave a different time table. A broken clock is right twice per day...

Rear consoles showed up in the store and were received by buyers quickly there after.

Was never announced or predicted?

70D started shipping basically on announcement.

Wasn't really pre-announced with a timeline.

90 kWh vehicles started shipping basically on announcement.

Again, wasn't pre-announced with a timeline.


So while some of things you mention happened as planned... most of them weren't things that were pre-announced that people had to wait for outside of normal known timetables (like ordering the car which has always taken ~a couple of months). None of them really had any specs that were in question at the time either... with the exception of the P90D that I've yet to see evidence that it's capable of running a 10.9 second quarter mile.

 

[stopcrazypp]

For what it's worth, because of the agony this has caused some people, I think Tesla has already switch gears to announcing as little as possible in regards to Model X and Model 3 up until it is ready. You have the phenomenon of people not knowing what the car will have up until a few days before they have to confirm their order.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

For what it's worth, because of the agony this has caused some people, I think Tesla has already switch gears to announcing as little as possible in regards to Model X and Model 3 up until it is ready. You have the phenomenon of people not knowing what the car will have up until a few days before they have to confirm their order.

Damned if you do. Damned if you don't! :scared:

 

[WarpedOne]

X days after rollout and xers still x...

 

[tezzla]

Why is this thread still up and running, while "Autopilot lane keeping" IS available now?

The Tesla blog stated that "It will take several months (from Oct 2014) for all Autopilot features to be completed and uploaded to the cars."

I still don't have auto-recall/park by itself, so it's not complete... and, it's a beta version to boot!

 

[gizmoboy]

The Tesla blog stated that "It will take several months (from Oct 2014) for all Autopilot features to be completed and uploaded to the cars."

I still don't have auto-recall/park by itself, so it's not complete... and, it's a beta version to boot!

...and because some people are right-fighters.

 

[Canuck]

...Just time and time again over the past year or so it's been proven that Musk and/or Tesla can no longer be trusted when it comes to when things are going to happen (ex: autopilot) or the details about those things (ex: P85D range/horsepower, Model X cargo space, towing capability, etc)...

...So either he [Musk] didn't know about it or had bad information (bad because he's giving out public info without actually having the correct info) or he knew and lied (bad for obvious reasons). I don't see how either is very excusable...

wk057, you complain here constantly about Tesla regarding a number of issues, and in very damaging terms, such as your quotes above which are only two of your very recent posts; there are, of course, numerous more. Given your position regarding Tesla, which you have made in no uncertain terms, please answer truthfully this question:

Will you buy another Tesla product?

I know you own a Model S and I understand why you wouldn't want to take a loss selling it (although it does surprise me you still own it). But I can't see from your numerous posts taking serious issue with Tesla, some going so far as to suggest intentional deception, that you would ever even considering buying another product from this company. Am I correct in my assumption?

I think it's an important question for a number of reasons, but of course you can also refuse to answer.

 

[Soolim]

wk057, you complain here constantly about Tesla regarding a number of issues, and in very damaging terms, such as your quotes above which are only two of your very recent posts; there are, of course, numerous more. Given your position regarding Tesla, which you have made in no uncertain terms, please answer truthfully this question:

Will you buy another Tesla product?

I know you own a Model S and I understand why you wouldn't want to take a loss selling it (although it does surprise me you still own it). But I can't see from your numerous posts taking serious issue with Tesla, some going so far as to suggest intentional deception, that you would ever even considering buying another product from this company. Am I correct in my assumption?

I think it's an important question for a number of reasons, but of course you can also refuse to answer.

What do we get out of WK057 answering the question?

 

[Canuck]

What do we get out of WK07 answering the question?

It seems to me the reason is obvious.

You must agree that, going by everything he's written about Tesla, his answer should be: He'd never buy anything from Tesla again and he regrets his purchase of his car. Right?

So, if after all that he has said, he buys another Tesla, I think it is very telling. The common expression is "actions speak louder than words." I've heard his words about Tesla repeatedly. I want to know his intended future action since that speaks much louder to me than his words. Often, we don't know the factors that drive us (pun intended). Many people speak one way and act another. To me, actions govern and words are cheap.

Again, he doesn't have to answer the question. He can simply ignore it or tell me it's none of my business, or whatever else.

 

[Soolim]

It seems to me the reason is obvious. You must agree that, going by everything he's written about Tesla, his answer should be: He'd never buy anything from Tesla again and he regrets his purchase of his car. Right?

Sorry, it wasn't obvious to me. I thought wk057 complaints was more about the marketing method and the timeliness of the product delivery and not the product itself. I thought he is pretty happy with the AP beta at this time. Hence, he may be unhappy with the marketing and the communication aspect of the company but could still like and may purchase the product. For example, someone who bought the MS with AP yesterday would have no issues with the late product delivery. This is just my observation and personal opinion.

 

[wk057]

Will you buy another Tesla product?

No, I will not. Not with the direction the company is headed. Absolutely not. I am no longer a customer, no longer an ambassador of the brand, and I'm no longer a stock holder. Given the way things have been handled over the past year the company is no longer the same company I bought into as a share holder and a customer. Until that changes the answer is a definite no.

 

[bwa]

Seems like the initial response should have had such a caveat tagged with it then if they didn't have the approvals in hand.



Definitely seems like regulatory approval for release of an already delayed major feature across two continents is something that would be well known by the CEO who is making public comments about it. So either he didn't know about it or had bad information (bad because he's giving out public info without actually having the correct info) or he knew and lied (bad for obvious reasons). I don't see how either is very excusable.

As for Musk not being involved in details... the man that beta tests multiple revisions of autopilot himself every week... I don't buy it.

I'm one of the first to complain when there's something insufficient at Tesla, but in this case I find a reason (whether an excuse or not I'm not going to go that far): regulators can sometimes be draining, and to a creative leader, they may have farmed that out to a department so they can focus on product. One of the biggest problems we have now is "programming to government regulation" (look at government web sites, national standards, and school tests), rather than programming to personal goals. If you conform to the wrong, you become wrong, whereas if you conform to the solution, the wrong and the solution can negotiate. There's a bit of hubris involved inbetween the two. Supposedly, government is reasoned, so this would be a "good thing", but in actuality, government is very nearly unreasoned, so this is more just "a thing", but a few here and there hijack the process to make it more "reasonable" and "for a good reason" on occasion for some stuff, if we're lucky enough (and bring enough burning pitchforks).

Edit: One example of "programming to government regulation" is the Leaf, Nissan in general, et al: the "small overlap IIHC crash test" wasn't originally on the "list of government/industry/watchdog tests", so they made a vehicle that passed all the existing standards, but didn't care one iota about the non-tested for stuff, and failed miserably with that stuff: because Datsun (Nissan (Leaf)) didn't care about their customers, only about what their customers thought and bought. Jury is still out on Tesla's performance in those newer tests, but so far, it's been true that if you spend more on safety from companies that sell more safety you are safer.

Following the tests and regulations isn't always the best thing. Leading them is almost always the best thing. (E.g., look at, well, prettymuch every innovation. Latest was the MobileEye exec CNBC vid I just watched.)

 

[wk057]

Sorry, it wasn't obvious to me. I thought wk057 complaints was more about the marketing method and the timeliness of the product delivery and not the product itself. I thought he is pretty happy with the AP beta at this time. Hence, he may be unhappy with the marketing and the communication aspect of the company but could still like and may purchase the product. For example, someone who bought the MS with AP yesterday would have no issues with the late product delivery. This is just my observation and personal opinion.

I'm happy to finally have some part of what I paid for nearly a year ago, yes. And admittedly, it's probably already the best on the market, beta or not (auto steer).

That doesn't excuse misleading me at purchase time. Car still doesn't have 691 HP or 285 miles of range..... or self non-parallel parking. So, still a ways to go.

And people buying the car today still are mislead. How much horsepower does the P85D/P90D/P90D have? Good luck getting a correct answer. Anyone done a 10.9 second 1/4 mile in a P90D yet? It's been out for months and I have yet to see anyone be able to do this.

Interestingly enough, all references to the self-parking/summon features disappeared from the Model S page. I have a feeling these features will never materialize. Edit: Yeah, I can't find anything anymore except from last year's blog post this sentence: "Imagine having your car check your calendar in the morning, calculate travel time to your first appointment based on real time traffic data, automatically open the garage door with Homelink, carefully back out of a tight garage, and pull up to your door ready for your commute." Yep. That's about all we can do is imagine.

 

[bwa]

No, I will not. Not with the direction the company is headed. Absolutely not. I am no longer a customer, no longer an ambassador of the brand, and I'm no longer a stock holder. Given the way things have been handled over the past year the company is no longer the same company I bought into as a share holder and a customer. Until that changes the answer is a definite no.

I noticed this too. I think Musk drank the CEO coolaid. But I've been in the trenches encouraging improvement in our civilization for a long time, and the overall vision Musk has of being yet another one of the 50,000 or so saviors of our human race is a good thing (there's more than one person who has saved us, often in subtle ways we don't completely notice), and I keep pushing for that vision (as long as I think it's correct) and for that vision to succeed (if it is appropriate for it to) and to be done well (if it can), as much as I can.

Absolutely there should be market feedback for product quality, even to the point of name/entity failure (Tesla go away, Musk go away, etc.). I'll try not to mention Steve Jobs (I've always hated him), but even in his case, this happened in a myriad of strange and oblong ways. But for better or for worse, Tesla is the only new world oriented car company out there, with the rest of the "me toos" just tagging along, and for now, the tagging alongers aren't at the forefront, but what if they got there, or someone else got there? It would be that. I didn't want Linux to succeed as the only better alternative to Microsoft and MacOS, but look where we are today?: Microsoft mimicked all that it shunned and became POSIX; Mac became BSD; Google Android --- well, they aren't Unix but they borrowed some code and even use Linux code and kernels and such, and back when I used Android I logged into my phone with Unix all the time, and until I tried swapping my iPhones the other day I could log into one of them too. Yet, we're stuck with the Castrated Multics, from the 1960s Deathstar Itself (Bell Labs, part of AT&T), only with a cute penguin (can't even fly). So, EV, Solar, non-oil-blood-wars, may go to the birds, to the old guard, to the new upstarts, and it may or may not be Tesla. For now, Tesla is flying high so I'm encouraging them still, and contemplating buying myself. I'd never want to buy product from a company not subject to market forces. Most things without competition don't work well. Just look at health care, or many other things.

That's my way of saying good for you and I agree, and yet I'll keep wanting one and may purchase. I may find your path someday.

 

[Electroman]

Wk, sorry I feel that you are being a bit petty. Instead of celebrating the amazing self-learning autopilot capabilities, you are nit-picking.

 

[wk057]

Wk, sorry I feel that you are being a bit petty. Instead of celebrating the amazing self-learning autopilot capabilities, you are nit-picking.

Nit picking? I should be celebrating? lol!

Sorry, I've nothing to celebrate. I feel like Tesla screwed me over on the P85D purchase and intended to from the very beginning. Unless they do something to make that right, that's how I'm going to feel on the matter. Not just about autopilot.

 

[bonnie]

Nit picking? I should be celebrating? lol!

Sorry, I've nothing to celebrate. I feel like Tesla screwed me over on the P85D purchase and intended to from the very beginning. Unless they do something to make that right, that's how I'm going to feel on the matter. Not just about autopilot.

Would you sell your car back to them?