Autopilot lane keeping still not available over 6 months after delivery

[wk057]

You mean the power steering motor? That's used for, well, power steering. There's no separate autopilot motor AFAIK.

Honestly, I'm not 100% sure. I haven't dissected an autopilot equipped vehicle yet. Would seem odd to me that the normal power steering motor would be able to precisely hold and control the steering on its own based on digital commands. If it can then I've been misinformed. *shrugs*

The feel of the steering while using auto steer is definitely different than even a car without power steering. You can feel the system holding the wheel where it wants it with enough force to keep it there. Power steering assist isn't used to hold the wheel, rather to make the wheels easier to turn. I guess it could be used in this capacity, but in that case I wonder if they couldn't implement some kind of manual activation auto parallel parking feature on the "classic" Model S (with parking sensors)?

In any case, I don't expect them to do anything to correct the issue or to do anything at all about the ridiculous delay of the release... which I guess is the problem and something people should be aware of.

Summary: Autopilot was announced as if it was already available (and was portrayed this way on their website for a full year). The P85D doesn't have more range than the P85. The P85D barely has more horsepower than the P85 (not "50% more" as claimed). The free software update to make the P85D perform better turned into a $5,000... er, $7,500 hardware update that is still yet to materialize. I've yet to see independent confirmation that the P90D can achieve a 10.9 second quarter mile time as claimed.

I could go on, but basically if I've learned anything from this whole experience with the P85D it's simply that Tesla can not be trusted to honestly portray anything anymore. And you know what? That's a sad place for them to be in the eyes of some of their most loyal customers and it's going to bite them in the *** sooner or later.

 

[ar4c]

Honestly, I'm not 100% sure. I haven't dissected an autopilot equipped vehicle yet. Would seem odd to me that the normal power steering motor would be able to precisely hold and control the steering on its own based on digital commands. If it can then I've been misinformed. *shrugs*

The feel of the steering while using auto steer is definitely different than even a car without power steering. You can feel the system holding the wheel where it wants it with enough force to keep it there. Power steering assist isn't used to hold the wheel, rather to make the wheels easier to turn. I guess it could be used in this capacity, but in that case I wonder if they couldn't implement some kind of manual activation auto parallel parking feature on the "classic" Model S (with parking sensors)?

In any case, I don't expect them to do anything to correct the issue or to do anything at all about the ridiculous delay of the release... which I guess is the problem and something people should be aware of.

Summary: Autopilot was announced as if it was already available (and was portrayed this way on their website for a full year). The P85D doesn't have more range than the P85. The P85D barely has more horsepower than the P85 (not "50% more" as claimed). The free software update to make the P85D perform better turned into a $5,000... er, $7,500 hardware update that is still yet to materialize. I've yet to see independent confirmation that the P90D can achieve a 10.9 second quarter mile time as claimed.

I could go on, but basically if I've learned anything from this whole experience with the P85D it's simply that Tesla can not be trusted to honestly portray anything anymore. And you know what? That's a sad place for them to be in the eyes of some of their most loyal customers and it's going to bite them in the *** sooner or later.

I wish I didn't sell my P85 to get a P85D. Its only faster from a stop, but no faster any where else. Does not feel like any 691 HP car I have ever driven. I was duped. But I love the car, I just wish I would have kept the P85 as I would have been totally 100% happy still. I took a $20K hit to get the biggest and best car, just to find out the power on the freeway was no better (my test drive car was speed limited to 70 so I couldn't really test it). Then a slap to the face 6 months later they come out with the REAL faster car, the P90D which actually has the hardware to get it closer to 691HP. Oh well. The little guy gets screwed again.

 

[vvanders]

Oy, not this again.

If you can afford a $130k car you definitely are not "the little guy".

There were quite a few of us who bought an 85D on the basis that it was a 10% efficiency bump in range at 300mi when it turned out to be closer to 2-3%. Do you see us wanting to burn Tesla to the ground over it? No, because you're an early adopter and the risk with a company like Telsa is that they are employing things that have not been widely tested in the real world. Anyone who's done tech evaluation knows you need to either do your due diligence or understand there are risks involved.

I really feel like some people didn't understand that when they went into a P85D.

 

[green1]

Of course if we want to complain we could complain that they still haven't released all the promised features.

1) automatically changing speeds after reading speed limit signs (this one was even demoed at the "D" event, so assumed to be basically ready)
2) dropping you off and then going and parking in the garage and then coming to pick you up on private property, including opening and closing garage doors

 

[wk057]

Of course if we want to complain we could complain that they still haven't released all the promised features.

1) automatically changing speeds after reading speed limit signs (this one was even demoed at the "D" event, so assumed to be basically ready)
2) dropping you off and then going and parking in the garage and then coming to pick you up on private property, including opening and closing garage doors

I suppose. But these things I personally never cared about at all beyond the "that's neat" factor. The lane keeping is the important part, IMO.

 

[Spidy]

@elonmusk: Autopilot release to Europe and Asia pending regulatory approval. Hopefully get the ok in the next few weeks.

 

[breser]

There were quite a few of us who bought an 85D on the basis that it was a 10% efficiency bump in range at 300mi when it turned out to be closer to 2-3%. Do you see us wanting to burn Tesla to the ground over it? No, because you're an early adopter and the risk with a company like Telsa is that they are employing things that have not been widely tested in the real world. Anyone who's done tech evaluation knows you need to either do your due diligence or understand there are risks involved.

Nobody that bought the 85D was duped. I had the 2nd 85D delivered, the first was delivered a day before. Long before even my car was delivered (as in months) the final EPA numbers came out. Anyone that was disappointed with the new rated range could have easily walked away from their order.

As much as I disagree with wk057's feelings on the issue. The issue is different. He was given the impression that AutoSteering would be available much sooner. Nobody knew for sure how long it would take at the point the December P85D deliveries happened. I was predicting Q4 2015, but almost everyone on the forums thought I was really out there with that sort of time frame.

So I don't think you can compare the two. Not the same thing.

That said, I think continuing to groan about this is just pointless (owners without v7 on their cars excluded). The last 6 months of this thread has more than done the job of making people aware of the delays.

 

[dsm363]

Agree. This thread no longer serves a purpose. People can read and and see how upset people were/are about the issue. It was late but the debate is how late. That will never be settled even after 'several' months of arguing.

 

[wk057]

@elonmusk: Autopilot release to Europe and Asia pending regulatory approval. Hopefully get the ok in the next few weeks.

A few weeks huh. Back in June Elon Musk also said that Autopilot would get to beta testers in a few weeks. Pretty sure that ended up being mid-August (some 2.5 months later)

So recently he's gone from worldwide release on the same day, then an extra week for Europe, now a few weeks for Europe and Asia.

Wonder what the next message will be.

 

[bonnie]

A few weeks huh. Back in June Elon Musk also said that Autopilot would get to beta testers in a few weeks. Pretty sure that ended up being mid-August (some 2.5 months later)

The regulators decide how quickly they choose to turn things around. I get you're upset about other things, but when best guess (based on what regulatory authorities quote) is a few weeks, earlier or later has absolutely nothing to do with Tesla. Regulatory bodies have average times that they get stuff done, but plenty of times take much longer. (Ask me about FDA and FCC )

Fair?

 

[Dwu0212]

A few weeks huh. Back in June Elon Musk also said that Autopilot would get to beta testers in a few weeks. Pretty sure that ended up being mid-August (some 2.5 months later)

So recently he's gone from worldwide release on the same day, then an extra week for Europe, now a few weeks for Europe and Asia.

Wonder what the next message will be.

Lol, infamous Tesla time, maybe I shouldn't be laughing, it's actually sad when a company is known by that among its first customers

 

[wk057]

The regulators decide how quickly they choose to turn things around. I get you're upset about other things, but when best guess (based on what regulatory authorities quote) is a few weeks, earlier or later has absolutely nothing to do with Tesla. Regulatory bodies have average times that they get stuff done, but plenty of times take much longer. (Ask me about FDA and FCC )

Fair?

Normally I would agree with this, if the man hadn't already said worldwide release would be at the same time. If he knew that they're still waiting on approval, why lie?

 

[dsm363]

Normally I would agree with this, if the man hadn't already said worldwide release would be at the same time. If he knew that they're still waiting on approval, why lie?

Maybe he was told it would be done but the regulators are dragging their feet.

 

[breser]

Normally I would agree with this, if the man hadn't already said worldwide release would be at the same time. If he knew that they're still waiting on approval, why lie?

Why do you assume it was a lie? It's not like Elon is up to his eye balls in every little detail. For all we know he was under the impression they were on track for a world wide simultaneous release. Maybe he just didn't have up to date info.

 

[bonnie]

Sounds like the end of a relationship when fault is found with every single thing the other person does, even though some of those things would have been fine awhile ago. So not going to argue about the intricacies of dealing with regulatory bodies when minds are made up as to the motivation.

 

[wk057]

Maybe he was told it would be done but the regulators are dragging their feet.

Seems like the initial response should have had such a caveat tagged with it then if they didn't have the approvals in hand.

Why do you assume it was a lie? It's not like Elon is up to his eye balls in every little detail. For all we know he was under the impression they were on track for a world wide simultaneous release. Maybe he just didn't have up to date info.

Definitely seems like regulatory approval for release of an already delayed major feature across two continents is something that would be well known by the CEO who is making public comments about it. So either he didn't know about it or had bad information (bad because he's giving out public info without actually having the correct info) or he knew and lied (bad for obvious reasons). I don't see how either is very excusable.

As for Musk not being involved in details... the man that beta tests multiple revisions of autopilot himself every week... I don't buy it.

 

[breser]

Seems like the initial response should have had such a caveat tagged with it then if they didn't have the approvals in hand.

It's twitter. Reactions like this is going to end up with you getting no info rather than the best possible information he had, which may have been wrong.

Definitely seems like regulatory approval for release of an already delayed major feature across two continents is something that would be well known by the CEO who is making public comments about it. So either he didn't know about it or had bad information (bad because he's giving out public info without actually having the correct info) or he knew and lied (bad for obvious reasons). I don't see how either is very excusable.

As for Musk not being involved in details... the man that beta tests multiple revisions of autopilot himself every week... I don't buy it.

I'm sorry but you're buying into the nonsense that presents Elon as some super human. He's not. He's a fallible human being. He's running two companies. I seriously doubt he was micro managing the regulatory approvals. Just because he has the latest internal builds on his car that he tests on his commute doesn't mean that he's sitting in every meeting on the regulatory issues.

Truth is once v7 ships to Europe/Asia nobody is going to remember this little delay.

 

[bonnie]

Definitely seems like regulatory approval for release of an already delayed major feature across two continents is something that would be well known by the CEO who is making public comments about it. So either he didn't know about it or had bad information (bad because he's giving out public info without actually having the correct info) or he knew and lied (bad for obvious reasons). I don't see how either is very excusable.

As for Musk not being involved in details... the man that beta tests multiple revisions of autopilot himself every week... I don't buy it.

Well, having dealt with several CEOs in my career, I can speak to this. They typically don't know squat about regulatory requirements. More likely is he heard from engineering that 'it's ready to roll, world-wide' and went with that.

Can't tell you how many times not only have regulatory requirements been ignored, but the whole yes to 'is it done yet?' also didn't include finance being ready to take orders (for a new product), sales people not trained, manufacturing not ready, service not ready, spare parts not in stock, etc. "But the engineering is done!!'. Yes, but not the product.

And regulatory (though I said I wasn't getting into this) can be somewhat tricky. Things that everyone assumes are fine and requiring no further testing are likely not fine and do require further testing (what? why do we need to do UL emissions testing again? Both of these items are already certified! Why do we have to do it when they're together! This makes no sense. You're crazzzzzy.)

Bottom line is Musk identifies with the engineering team and finds legal/regulatory/comms/PR all an annoyance. I'm sure he didn't think there were further regulatory rqmts.

 

[wk057]

Sounds like the end of a relationship when fault is found with every single thing the other person does, even though some of those things would have been fine awhile ago. So not going to argue about the intricacies of dealing with regulatory bodies when minds are made up as to the motivation.

lol. Jokes aside, I don't care about the motivation. Just time and time again over the past year or so it's been proven that Musk and/or Tesla can no longer be trusted when it comes to when things are going to happen (ex: autopilot) or the details about those things (ex: P85D range/horsepower, Model X cargo space, towing capability, etc). The only exception so far on my end since I've been a Tesla owner that I've seen where he said something and it happened when he said it would was that v7 would be out Thursday and it was, for the USA at least... and that was only after failing on earlier predictions, so, not sure if that counts or not.

I mean, if there are counter examples that go against this in the past year or so, by all means share... but I can only work with the facts here.

 

[JohnSnowNW]

I mean, if there are counter examples that go against this in the past year or so, by all means share... but I can only work with the facts here.

Describing the missteps as "lying" is not utilizing a factual basis, it's supposition born of bias.