-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
That's another issue entirely since the wording of the FSD was more vague. I think people who bought this option did a little bit of a bet on Tesla and I don't think it was worth it to pre-order it, nor do I believe they should have allowed people to pay for it at this stage. That's just my opinion though. Hopefully those who ordered it will get a pleasant surprise in a few months if we rely only on Elon's tweet (and we know how accurate those are
)I have the same thoughts, because I can't understand what is that you can improve in AP functionality on a highway beyond what is already there AP1 today? It just drives perfectly fine today on the highway, and there is very little scope for improvement.
mikes_fsd
Banned
Oh, there is a ton of improvement that can be done to AP.
Today it does the single task of highway driving - without too much external interference - pretty well.
But, take a divided highway in North Carolina that follows the terrain of the hills, AP loses lanes if you are coming over a small hill or when you are taking a curve on a hilly road.
On interstates, it still does not handle cars cutting in gracefully (the radar/camera clearly sees the car switching into the lane - because it shows up in the dash, but the response is delayed and the car ends up overcompensating by slowing down more then necessary).
Re-striped lanes - lane shifts for construction, still throw AP off a lot. Highway construction zones, in general, should be handled by AP, but right now it is flaky.
I could go on and on and on, and all these things can get a bit better with software, but what AP2 gives in hardware is - I believe - the sweet spot for hardware requirements to handle 99.9% of the real world scenarios.
Exactly! I bought (leased) the car and read and re-read the order agreement and terms and conditions - it doesn't say anything about them removing features after the sale agreement, only that future features would be likely unavailable. This is a voidable contract ab initio. The bad faith in my opinion was them KNOWING they were going to scrap hardware requiring brand new software they didnt yet have, and then forcing me to take the car or threatening to levy my deposit if I didnt (likely to satisfy shareholders and fierce loyalists on this board).
As others have said, I wanted the safety features and the self driving component worked very well on my demonstration drive in traffic on interstate 8 at highway speeds. Now the system is literally scary and only works up to 45 mph. It has NOT improved at all during the week I have had it running, and honestly my wife yells at me if I try and use it with her in the car - the jerking of the brakes and the watching the steering wheel spin all over the place is again rather unnerving.
At least it proves human pilots are better than autopilots - anyone remember the rollout of the Airbus A320 at the Paris Airshow???? How long did it take for fly by wire to get any better? A330 AirFrance 447 crash into the ocean because pitot tubes got froze over? I don't want to be a guinea pig, I want what I paid for plain and simple. Not delivered, gimme my cash back, and I will continue to be happy with my Cayenne Turbo S.
Last edited:
Are we talking about the crash that happened at Habsheim (not Paris), and where the pilot was hand flying the airplane and got way to low and slow, and no autopilot was involved at all, but the fly by wire protected the airplane from stalling and spinning before it hit the trees as the pilot ham-handed the controls? Where it went in so gently that only 3 out of 136 people died?
And are we talking about the Air France crash where a human held full back force on the stick for minutes as the system screamed STALL at him? Where the plane had exited all protection modes and was doing exactly what the pilot asked it to, and when we let the human fly it they immediately screwed up?
Not sure what the point of these examples is except to demonstrate the well proven fact that humans are often horrid pilots (and drivers). It's well proven that autopilots in airplanes are a huge safety benefit.
NerdUno
Member
Thread seems to indicate that Tesla stopped working on AutoPilot once Elon's Demonstration video was created. However, I suspect that the 4 Model-X used for collecting data were no longer needed after AP2 deliveries began because they can collect data from the fleet.
The electrek article even stated, "The Autopilot team also tests vehicles outside of California’s public roads and mainly focuses on using data collected through its fleet."
Helmuth
Member
I understand the frustration!
I would love to have a working system by now, too!
But I'm glad they are setting themselves under pressure!
Would we prefer a system like Mercedes? Which doesn't work in many situations?
Or a company like Google? Driving around with a few cars for years without any product in sight?
We are early adopters for the HW 2.0 and I knew it before we bought our Model X! And I gladly paid a lot of money to make the future updates possible! And all of the Tesla owners are one reason to make the Gigafactory and the Model 3 possible!
We should be proud to be part of it! And if someone wants to buy a different car because of the AP delay?! That's fine! Because he/she doesn't understand Elon's passion about sustainability!
The reason for me to buy a Tesla was mainly to safe the environment, or at least help starting the change!
Tesla is the reason we'll start seeing many car companies developing electric vehicles over the next few years! Tesla is the only reason EV are getting big!
The future updates will be great and will safe thousands of lives.
And I can wait for that! Even though Elon shouldn't announce dates! It's unnecessary! It would be enough to announce a 2-6 week upgrade period (what he did)! And everybody would be happy and surprised if the next update comes earlier...
Let's hope for the next update happening soon though.
I would love to have a working system by now, too!
But I'm glad they are setting themselves under pressure!
Would we prefer a system like Mercedes? Which doesn't work in many situations?
Or a company like Google? Driving around with a few cars for years without any product in sight?
We are early adopters for the HW 2.0 and I knew it before we bought our Model X! And I gladly paid a lot of money to make the future updates possible! And all of the Tesla owners are one reason to make the Gigafactory and the Model 3 possible!
We should be proud to be part of it! And if someone wants to buy a different car because of the AP delay?! That's fine! Because he/she doesn't understand Elon's passion about sustainability!
The reason for me to buy a Tesla was mainly to safe the environment, or at least help starting the change!
Tesla is the reason we'll start seeing many car companies developing electric vehicles over the next few years! Tesla is the only reason EV are getting big!
The future updates will be great and will safe thousands of lives.
And I can wait for that! Even though Elon shouldn't announce dates! It's unnecessary! It would be enough to announce a 2-6 week upgrade period (what he did)! And everybody would be happy and surprised if the next update comes earlier...
Let's hope for the next update happening soon though.
A bit OT but since there is a lot of chatter about FSD, Tesla and other automakers running self driving cars in California have all now submitted their 2016 testing results. With the most important metric being how often the driver needs to take control from the autonomous system.
Story here: Tesla Is Testing Self Driving Cars on California Roads
And the link to California test reports is here: https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/detail/vr/autonomous/disengagement_report_2016
RT
Story here: Tesla Is Testing Self Driving Cars on California Roads
And the link to California test reports is here: https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/detail/vr/autonomous/disengagement_report_2016
RT
Very interesting read on what happened; too much reliance on autonomous systems and their sensors; when those failed, the pilots were flying blind - literally - no speedometer - and the angle of attack remained at 35 up angle with engines at 100% and they still smashed into the ocean at 175mph -
In any event, AP 1.0 worked just fine and the safety systems were all active; they fired everyone, got locked out of previous tech because Elon can't get along with people (Mobileye), and had to start from scratch. They didn't disclose this to me, and I bought AP 1.0 not some future fantasy version with an ETA TBD. Although, the salespeople lied through their teeth and Elon's tweets fed the lie on the day of delivery, when even my headlights didn't even turn on automatically.
Reading tea leaves ... I prefer the alternative narrative, they did it to collect enough video for the bait and switch video for FSD Level 5 options. Irrelevant to me, since it wasn't an option when I purchased, and I dont believe they will ever have that up and running in the next two years, let alone this year.
If I wanted to be bleeding edge, I would have sat with baited breath at the rollout for the Model X a few years ago. I waited for atleast Gen 2 to have the bugs worked out - they seem to have regressed instead. The old adage for silicon valley products, never buy Rev. A doesn't apply in this case - Buyer beware.
the beta stuff (TACC and Autosteer) is alpha quality and dangerous...nothing to get rah-rah excited about. That's what happens when you get locked out of your previous platform and have no software to go with it. Some say, well gee whiz how are they supposed to test......in the real world you CONTINUE TO SELL WHAT YOU HAVE AND THAT WORKS while your R&D builds/tests/ and rolls out new stuff...
Imagine if Apple rolled out a quasi functioning iPhone 9 this year but worked no better than a flip phone? Telling you that the touch screen and accelerometer will work one day....Now imagine that they sell one with those features, called an iPhone 7, you put your order in and they change you to an iPhone 9 but the touchscreen doesn't work.... wouldn't you be a little pissed? And they tell you they wouldn't sell you an iPhone 7 even if you wanted to buy it.
I ordered a car with AP 1.0, it was top of its game when sold to me, and what they delivered doesn't do any of that AND CAN NEVER DO IT until some mythical future fantasy date in the future while I am required to put my life on the line to beta test it, which I presently won't do after trying it a few times and almost colliding lovingly with a truck, 2 motor cycles, and fighting the car as it tried to leave the highway on its own....other than the flaming fanboys, can anyone else get it?
Last edited:
I don't disagree with your anger, and I've already responded to that portion of it.
But, the soup-Nazi style of business is completely legitimate. I know it sounds silly to actively block customers, but the reality is a few bad apples can cost a LOT OF money.
I know at some point BestBuy was considering on using a blacklist. I don't know if they ever implemented it.
Ferrari essentially uses a white list for their top end.
The kind of data that Tesla needs for AI training is not going to be accomplished with 4 vehicles running custom software. They're going to need thousands (even hundreds of thousands) of vehicles collecting this data (in Shadow mode) over many months.
I appreciate that time is money and in your case double-so because you are leasing. However, when we become emotional/upset, we can lose perspective of the big picture. These features *will* trickle in over the next few weeks/months, maybe sooner than it should.
Some complain that they're not released quickly enough, while others complain that they're released too quickly (not ready for prime time). We are "beta" testers, but Tesla does need to ensure that the software is mature enough not to cause issues on the road.
This is the 2nd year for the Model-X. You can tell because it's going through the Terrible-Twos phase, but it will pass.
They only need to report information on AUTONOMOUS driving.
They don't need to report EAP driving. If I was a HW2 owner my blood would be boiling if they were monkeying around with FSD instead of concentrating on EAP.
Besides if you looked at how many times they had to take over it clearly wasn't ready for the streets anyways.
The two videos we all knew were highly staged, but they were informative of how it would work.
Indeed, look at what is happening to VW.. Perhaps they should blacklist all the people they deceived with their clean diesel...Perhaps Tesla should hire those software engineers, atleast they made something happen. Look, I dont EVER want another Tesla anything, and I will be sure to tell my friends about this awful experience.. SO blacklist away.
With respect to Bestbuy, they don't need to blacklist anyone silly, they are a monopoly they have no competition, they can act like the government and often do....[/QUOTE]
With respect to Bestbuy, they don't need to blacklist anyone silly, they are a monopoly they have no competition, they can act like the government and often do....[/QUOTE]
I was using BestBuy as an example of a company that considered using blacklist. This was before they became a Gallery for people to look at stuff before they bought it on Amazon.
As to you and Tesla I already told you to look into Volvo.
My next car will either be another Tesla or a Volvo. I'm going to let the better autonomous driving one win. As in the one that performs the best AT the time of purchase.
None of this in 6+ months crap. I do like the SW upgrades, but I think Tesla takes it a bit too far with pre-selling things that are way too far in the future to predict like FSD.
Similar threads
- gogman69-rip@y
- Model X: Ordering, Production, Delivery
