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AWD delivery thread

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And I thought that as well until someone on here pointed out the reservation system is comprised of multiple segments, RWD, US, EU, Asia Pacific.If US and non US are 50/50 420,000 reservations are now 210,000; LR vs SR 105,000; RWD vs AWD, 52,500. At 6,000/wk that's 8-9 wks. Tesla's guidance is, of the 3 month window they give people, they are hitting delivery in month 2... 8-9 weeks!

While I don't completely share your optimism (more on that in a moment), but I did a very complex breakdown the day after I configured on 6/28 to try to better estimate where I was in line and my numbers now aren't too far off. A longer post, but might be worth looking through for estimates. Math!

I originally figured that the cars configured before me were mostly produced and ready to be delivered on July 1st, and I estimated that there would be 20,000 or so ahead of me, and figured that my car would probably finish production around mid-August. That didn't happen. I did three things that I now think were errors:

1) I assumed that they would base delivery off config date more than reservation date. In part, this was because I had assume most early reservation holders had already had access to order their cars, and therefore Tesla would have changed to caring more about configuration date. In many ways, this made sense to me, although from later configurations held by earlier reservations, it seems that never happened, which is fine. That set my estimates off.

2) I assumed that they could produce AWD or RWD cars at the exact same clip when the configurator was opened. It looks like they didn't gear up for AWD until after that.

3) I assumed they had backlogged their deliveries with both AWD and RWD cars and that starting on 7/1, almost all May configurations would be filled.

For sure, we didn't see a huge backlog of AWD cars delivered in July. We instead saw a huge backlog of RWD cars delivered, as well as extremely quick delivery times on new RWD cars ordered. This means the majority of their RWD orders were filled. Based on the number of RWD cars produced (which we know, since it was the only car in production, as around 40,000 by that time), we can assume that RWD demand was about 10% of pre-orders. If we assume that Tesla produced another 20,000 RWD cars in July and so far in August, which based on lots of factors seems reasonable to me, 15% of the orders so far went for RWD.

Okay, now the other data point that we know is that Tesla has said that they had nearly equal orders for AWD as RWD. If we have 60,000 RWD cars of demand, we can expect 60,000 cars worth of AWD demand too.

Those numbers also line up really well with two of the other numbers that Tesla gave out - 5,000 cars per week produced, and a 3 month delivery window...

5000 cars * 12 weeks = 60,000 cars.

Now, if we go back and assume that 50% of the reservations were made in the US, and we also estimate that half of them are waiting for the SR version of the car, we end up with 110,000 cars that we would expect need to be delivered in the US.

All these numbers line up kind of perfectly between what we know and what Tesla has said.

Based on that, to come up with my estimate I'm pretending like AWD production started officially and is running at 5,000 a week this week. (It didn't, but the production numbers before that are relatively negligible, and it seems like RWD numbers have dropped to almost nothing lately).

For you first-day reservation holders, which was approximately 25% of the overall reservation number (this pretends no one canceled, by the way), your AWD cars should be made in the first three weeks and delivered after that. That would be in production this week through the first week of September, delivery early September to mid September.

The reservations of the first week was announced at 325,000. Let's pretend that means that 75% of the reservations were made at this point. Subtracting the first 25% above, what would mean six weeks of production to satisfy that demand. Production would start second week of September and would completed for this group by October 19th, with all cars delivered by the end of October.

Reservations like me who were later will start after that and should be about three more weeks. Therefore, ending November 9th, with all cars ordered will be produced, so I can expect my car no later than the very end of November.

Which lines up silly good with their production estimates.

So that's where I think everyone sits.

Having said that, a few other things...

1) They have obviously already produced some AWD cars. They will also obviously produce some more RWD cars. This will shift the numbers a bit.

2) If we assume that the reports that about 25% of the original orders canceled, and the 420,000 reservation number is from later reservations, it moves all of the dates up by a bit. If we assume equal reductions, first-day moves to early September, first week moves to mid-October, and later reservations move to... Well, they don't since we don't know when the "new" reservations came in.

3) The batching of cars does alter this data, as you essentially end up in a potentially shorter line. One week of red production for instance would probably satisfy *all* red reservation holders, regardless of where they are in the line.

4) An increase in production lowers the waiting time by an equal amount of time. If they increase production to 6,000 average per week, that is a 20% increase in speed to delivery. That moves the final week of calculations up by just over two weeks. That puts a car like mine at the latest at mid-November.

If instead we assume they average 7,000 since the analysts recently saw an easy increase to 7-8,000, that is a 40-60% increase in production, moving everything up even further.

5) There *will* be exceptions to all of the above. There will be some first day reservation holders who don't get their cars until later. There will be others who reserved after me who will get theirs sooner. Having said that, I wonder if some of those are legit? It seems a pretty easy way to rile up a bunch of people if you show up and say that you just reserved and got your car a week later. Makes fans start really questioning things... But some of that will be legit. That isn't them trying to deliver them any less, or even working against their promises, just how things shake out when you have 60,000+ data points.

Along with that one, it's worth pointing out you're more likely to post how excited you are to get your car earlier, woo-woo, then post you got it when you expected it or later.

With all that I have said above, I don't *expect* to have my car until mid-November. Based on the other factors, specifically potential cancellations and production increases, I have hope that I will see the car in early October.

Of course, I WANT IT NEXT WEEK, DARN IT.

Hope this helps people wait a bit and estimate realistic delivery times a bit.
 
My friend in La Jolla CA a PhD in Engineering explained to me there is a 20% spike safety, a 70a circuit would handle 56a steady state, 70*.2 is 14, 70-14=56. For instance. The max current the M3 can use is 48a, a 60a circuit can deliver 48 at steady state. If all you get is an M3, anything above 60a is overkill. ask the price for 60a circuit, run, and breakers.
Asked for 70A so I can load balance with another charger, or charge a different vehicle.
 
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Can I respectfully ask how the electrical considerations for our home chargers became a hot topic on the AWD delivery thread? :)

Because we've all been waiting for too damn long.

Hell, there isn't even a single good video review demonstrating AWD acceleration yet.

im-more-bored-than-this-cat-11616676.png
 
Just draw it, take a picture, and post. I can do it then. :)
First is as percentage...it would need work.
Second is raw numbers, I'd suggest a second chart starting after bubble as shown in middle chart.
Remember, for any given row, the vin and delivered number of OF THOSE RESERVED THAT DAY, not delivered that day.
 

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While I don't completely share your optimism (more on that in a moment), but I did a very complex breakdown the day after I configured on 6/28 to try to better estimate where I was in line and my numbers now aren't too far off. A longer post, but might be worth looking through for estimates. Math!

I originally figured that the cars configured before me were mostly produced and ready to be delivered on July 1st, and I estimated that there would be 20,000 or so ahead of me, and figured that my car would probably finish production around mid-August. That didn't happen. I did three things that I now think were errors:

1) I assumed that they would base delivery off config date more than reservation date. In part, this was because I had assume most early reservation holders had already had access to order their cars, and therefore Tesla would have changed to caring more about configuration date. In many ways, this made sense to me, although from later configurations held by earlier reservations, it seems that never happened, which is fine. That set my estimates off.

2) I assumed that they could produce AWD or RWD cars at the exact same clip when the configurator was opened. It looks like they didn't gear up for AWD until after that.

3) I assumed they had backlogged their deliveries with both AWD and RWD cars and that starting on 7/1, almost all May configurations would be filled.

For sure, we didn't see a huge backlog of AWD cars delivered in July. We instead saw a huge backlog of RWD cars delivered, as well as extremely quick delivery times on new RWD cars ordered. This means the majority of their RWD orders were filled. Based on the number of RWD cars produced (which we know, since it was the only car in production, as around 40,000 by that time), we can assume that RWD demand was about 10% of pre-orders. If we assume that Tesla produced another 20,000 RWD cars in July and so far in August, which based on lots of factors seems reasonable to me, 15% of the orders so far went for RWD.

Okay, now the other data point that we know is that Tesla has said that they had nearly equal orders for AWD as RWD. If we have 60,000 RWD cars of demand, we can expect 60,000 cars worth of AWD demand too.

Those numbers also line up really well with two of the other numbers that Tesla gave out - 5,000 cars per week produced, and a 3 month delivery window...

5000 cars * 12 weeks = 60,000 cars.

Now, if we go back and assume that 50% of the reservations were made in the US, and we also estimate that half of them are waiting for the SR version of the car, we end up with 110,000 cars that we would expect need to be delivered in the US.

All these numbers line up kind of perfectly between what we know and what Tesla has said.

Based on that, to come up with my estimate I'm pretending like AWD production started officially and is running at 5,000 a week this week. (It didn't, but the production numbers before that are relatively negligible, and it seems like RWD numbers have dropped to almost nothing lately).

For you first-day reservation holders, which was approximately 25% of the overall reservation number (this pretends no one canceled, by the way), your AWD cars should be made in the first three weeks and delivered after that. That would be in production this week through the first week of September, delivery early September to mid September.

The reservations of the first week was announced at 325,000. Let's pretend that means that 75% of the reservations were made at this point. Subtracting the first 25% above, what would mean six weeks of production to satisfy that demand. Production would start second week of September and would completed for this group by October 19th, with all cars delivered by the end of October.

Reservations like me who were later will start after that and should be about three more weeks. Therefore, ending November 9th, with all cars ordered will be produced, so I can expect my car no later than the very end of November.

Which lines up silly good with their production estimates.

So that's where I think everyone sits.

Having said that, a few other things...

1) They have obviously already produced some AWD cars. They will also obviously produce some more RWD cars. This will shift the numbers a bit.

2) If we assume that the reports that about 25% of the original orders canceled, and the 420,000 reservation number is from later reservations, it moves all of the dates up by a bit. If we assume equal reductions, first-day moves to early September, first week moves to mid-October, and later reservations move to... Well, they don't since we don't know when the "new" reservations came in.

3) The batching of cars does alter this data, as you essentially end up in a potentially shorter line. One week of red production for instance would probably satisfy *all* red reservation holders, regardless of where they are in the line.

4) An increase in production lowers the waiting time by an equal amount of time. If they increase production to 6,000 average per week, that is a 20% increase in speed to delivery. That moves the final week of calculations up by just over two weeks. That puts a car like mine at the latest at mid-November.

If instead we assume they average 7,000 since the analysts recently saw an easy increase to 7-8,000, that is a 40-60% increase in production, moving everything up even further.

5) There *will* be exceptions to all of the above. There will be some first day reservation holders who don't get their cars until later. There will be others who reserved after me who will get theirs sooner. Having said that, I wonder if some of those are legit? It seems a pretty easy way to rile up a bunch of people if you show up and say that you just reserved and got your car a week later. Makes fans start really questioning things... But some of that will be legit. That isn't them trying to deliver them any less, or even working against their promises, just how things shake out when you have 60,000+ data points.

Along with that one, it's worth pointing out you're more likely to post how excited you are to get your car earlier, woo-woo, then post you got it when you expected it or later.

With all that I have said above, I don't *expect* to have my car until mid-November. Based on the other factors, specifically potential cancellations and production increases, I have hope that I will see the car in early October.

Of course, I WANT IT NEXT WEEK, DARN IT.

Hope this helps people wait a bit and estimate realistic delivery times a bit.
#1 is likely completely wrong based on Tesla website which clearly states its in reservation order. Also of the 10,500 VINs registered they are all AWD. post 6/27 reservation date == config date. You may be correct but for that to occur, Tesla would have to be incorrect.
#2 420,000 is complete reservation count as of 7/1 and reflects the 25% cancelations..July was strictly RWD. Aug finished RWD started AWD. This was reported by Bloomberg and the number Ben Sullins uses, as I recall. My % of 50/50 could be off i.e. 60/40. The main thrust is now is AWD, 1/2 the 420,000 is non-US so they don't count, roughly half of that is SR bat so they don't count. 1/2 of the 105,000 is RWD, so they don't count. It's a little off as they didn't start AWD on 8/1. I believe Tesla just this past week said new orders would be Oct->Dec.
 
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#1 is completely wrong based on Tesla website which clearly states its in reservation order. Also of the 10,500 VINs registered they are all AWD. post 6/27 reservation date == config date.

I am not sure what you're saying at all here. You seem to have said that I'm wrong because it's reservation date, but then it's configuration date once you configure? My guess had been *when they opened it* that they would open the configurator based on reservation date *like they had been* and then you would be prioritized by Based on observations since then, reservation date plays more than configuration. It appears those who reserved the day it was available to reserve can "jump the line" in front of people like myself who reserved later, and configuration date doesn't matter unless you had no reservation.

And if that is what you meant by that, uh, yes, that's exactly what I said, so I don't get how I'm "completely wrong."

#2 420,000 is complete reservation count as of 7/1..July was strictly RWD. Aug finished RWD started AWD. This was reported by Bloomberg and the number Ben Sullins uses, as I recall. My % of 50/50 could be off i.e. 60/40. The main thrust is now is AWD, 1/2 the 420,000 is non-US so they don't count, roughly half of that is SR bat so they don't count. 1/2 of the 105,000 is RWD, so they don't count. It's a little off as they didn't start AWD on 8/1. I believe Tesla just this past week said new orders would be Oct->Dec.

The 420,000 number wasn't reported by Bloomberg or Sullivan, it was what Tesla themselves said in a press release. I use that number instead of estimating higher for a number of reasons, but here is the *exact* quote from Tesla themselves in the press release:

"The remaining net Model 3 reservations count at the end of Q2 still stood at roughly 420,000 even though we have now delivered 28,386 Model 3 vehicles to date."

Here's my reasoning:

First, and most importantly, its not a huge difference. It's a big number so it seems like it should be, but it's 7%. A 7% increase in any segment is extremely small - based on the other numbers, it should only be about four days of production to make that up. Someone could argue that RWD would double that and make it eight days of production, but that still accounts for less than 10 days of production.

Secondly, it increases the complexity greatly to try to estimate how many of those are each group. You do a super easy breakdown of 1/2 is non-US, but you're doing half of 420,000, shouldn't you do half of 450,000 (which would include the RWD deliveries that already happened)? But but, isn't it logical that those new orders were nearly 100% orders from the US where the car is on display / has been delivered? Now, if we're factoring in cancellations, the math can get even messier.

Thirdly, it's also logical that the version of the car that was receiving orders was the RWD version of the car, as that is what was getting made.

Finally, those 30,000 reservations, whomever they are, are all *at the end* meaning that they happened after me. I'm mostly estimating for me, so I'd rather give myself a longer estimate and have it come up shorter than give myself a shorter one and have it come up longer.

So anyway, my point it is it easier to base the number off the *original* numbers that we know and were not encumbered by the tons of situations that have happened since they opened things. 420,000 was also the earlier number they said that they had for reservations. It doesn't change much, although I guess I should add as a disclaimer for my numbers that if you ordered in 2018, there is a chance that they may be off by 1-6 weeks.
 
Uh, what? You seem to have said that I'm wrong because it's reservation date, but then it's configuration date once you configure? My guess had been *when they opened it* that they would open the configurator based on reservation date *like they had been* and then you would be prioritized by Based on observations since then, reservation date plays more than configuration. It appears those who reserved the day it was available to reserve can "jump the line" in front of people like myself who reserved later, and configuration date doesn't matter unless you had no reservation.

And if that is what you meant by that, uh, yes, that's exactly what I said, so I don't get how I'm "completely wrong."



The 420,000 number wasn't reported by Bloomberg or Sullivan, it was what Tesla themselves said in a press release. I use that number instead of estimating higher for a number of reasons, but here is the *exact* quote from Tesla themselves in the press release:

"The remaining net Model 3 reservations count at the end of Q2 still stood at roughly 420,000 even though we have now delivered 28,386 Model 3 vehicles to date."

Here's my reasoning:

First, and most importantly, its not a huge difference. It's a big number so it seems like it should be, but it's 7%. A 7% increase in any segment is extremely small - based on the other numbers, it should only be about four days of production to make that up. Someone could argue that RWD would double that and make it eight days of production, but that still accounts for less than 10 days of production.

Secondly, it increases the complexity greatly to try to estimate how many of those are each group. You do a super easy breakdown of 1/2 is non-US, but you're doing half of 420,000, shouldn't you do half of 450,000 (which would include the RWD deliveries that already happened)? But but, isn't it logical that those new orders were nearly 100% orders from the US where the car is on display / has been delivered? Now, if we're factoring in cancellations, the math can get even messier.

Thirdly, it's also logical that the version of the car that was receiving orders was the RWD version of the car, as that is what was getting made.

Finally, those 30,000 reservations, whomever they are, are all *at the end* meaning that they happened after me. I'm mostly estimating for me, so I'd rather give myself a longer estimate and have it come up shorter than give myself a shorter one and have it come up longer.

So anyway, my point it is it easier to base the number off the *original* numbers that we know and were not encumbered by the tons of situations that have happened since they opened things. 420,000 was also the earlier number they said that they had for reservations. It doesn't change much, although I guess I should add as a disclaimer for my numbers that if you ordered in 2018, there is a chance that they may be off by 1-6 weeks.
Sorry, I did rethink the completely wrong and retracted it to likely. For you to be correct, Tesla would have to be incorrect with their published information. I think that unlikely. Bloomberg reported what Tesla said as did Sullins? Irrelevant. My calculations, which you took issue with, assume what Tesla said was correct, what the composition of that 420,000 as of 7/1/18 was worldwide, SR battery, RWD. That you reserved/configured on 6/28/18 was premised on Tesla already made the AWD for early day 1/2/3 reserves. That clearly is not the case. Look, you will get yours when you get yours, ditto me, ditto everyone else. If your calculations make you feel better....go with that!
 
I went through the same dilemma but decided to keep my features over one second of performance

Same here, but EAP is definitely worth it if you have to drive in traffic often enough. Most days I'm stuck in slow traffic, so the one second won't help me as much compared to EAP. I'm sure there will be moments where I really wish I had that extra second, but I'll just save the money for the future roadster fund.
 
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Sorry, I did rethink the completely wrong and retracted it to likely. For you to be correct, Tesla would have to be incorrect with their published information. I think that unlikely. Bloomberg reported what Tesla said as did Sullins? Irrelevant. My calculations, which you took issue with, assume what Tesla said was correct, what the composition of that 420,000 as of 7/1/18 was worldwide, SR battery, RWD. That you reserved/configured on 6/28/18 was premised on Tesla already made the AWD for early day 1/2/3 reserves. That clearly is not the case. Look, you will get yours when you get yours, ditto me, ditto everyone else. If your calculations make you feel better....go with that!

First, apology also from me, after I reread what I posted the "uh what" (that you quoted above, before I changed it :) ) sounded rude when I meant it as "I don't understand what you're saying here." I truthfully still don't quite get it, but that's neither here nor there. Regardless, unless I'm mistaken, Tesla didn't publish that order until after the quarter ended, and they definitely never clarified if people could "jump" earlier configurations based on reservation date. Now that we're seeing deliveries, it seems that is what is occurring. I stated that in my original estimation, that was wrong.

In my original estimation, I was already tooting around town in my Model 3.

I also do think it's important as where the numbers come from. I don't use, for instance, the Bloomberg production estimate, I generally only use the Tesla data.... However...

You stated that I took issue with your data. With the exception of the random word "but" that I added here, this is my original quote (with but included... but if you read it without, it's a little clearer):

"While I don't completely share your optimism (more on that in a moment), but I did a very complex breakdown the day after I configured on 6/28 to try to better estimate where I was in line and my numbers now aren't too far off."

For the most part, my numbers jive with your numbers. The difference is you're expecting them to hit in the middle of the estimate, and I'm expecting them to hit at the end of the estimate.

The only thing that I think you overlooked in your numbers is that you estimated 8-9 weeks assuming 52,500 AWD cars needed at 6,000 a week. I used a lower estimate (5,000), and assumed we still need to keep *some* RWD cars rolling off the line too. In your estimate, we need another 52,500 RWD cars by the end of the year, which since production at the end of Q2 stood at just under 30k, we'd need another 20,000 of those by year end.

20,000 at 5,000 / week is four more weeks.

My whole point was to break down in further detail why I think it's totally possible to make a fair estimate like this, and to highlight a few things that I think need to be considered. Having said that, as I also tried to highlight with my final points, my numbers are purposely pessimistic and represent what I think is the longest possible wait. Yours seem to be more optimistic. That's absolutely fine. I have a hunch yours may land closer to where my car actually shows up.

Having said all of this, for Tesla's sake, I *hope* that the demand legitimately is large enough that I won't get my car until the end of November. While I would love to get a call tomorrow that my car is in transit, come and pick it up on Saturday, I also want my car to be supported through updates throughout it's life and keep getting better. The larger Tesla gets, the more likely they will continue to support this car for years and years into the future. If, on the flip side, all demand is filled by the end of September, we will be in a situation where bankruptcy is possible, and that wouldn't bode well for updates of the car I'm getting.

Which, I guess, is why I'm just accepting of whenever I get it. The sooner, the quicker I get a freaking phenomenal car that drives unlike anything I've ever been in before, and the sooner I no longer have to worry about my current car losing a wheel on the freeway or something. However, the later I receive it, the more likely that the car will continue to grow and improve along with the rest of the company for the next 10+ years that I own it.

Win / win. :)