Barebone $35,000 Features

[igotzzoom]

Different radios. Vz and Sprint are CDMA. AT&T is GSM.

Verizon's new LTE network is an evolution of GSM. They still have a legacy CDMA network that they will probably have for the next decade, but going forward, they're going to use a version of GSM. Also, I just read somewhere that Ford will be using the AT&T network for its future built-in mobile & telematics services. The only reason I'd like to see VZW is to be able to add a car as an add-on to my monthly data plan. Then again, AT&T customers could say the same thing about GM, Tesla, etc.

 

[rEVhappy]

In order to get that price way down got to go beyond what is suggested. Here...

16) No Alloy wheels, steel with hubcaps instead. ✔
17) Unfoldable rear seats ✔
18) No aircon. ✔
19) No dashboard. Driving visuals to appear on touchscreen. ✔
20) Touchscreen to be 5ins. ✔
21) Body half the size of the S to reduce costs.✔
22) Body made out of plastic as its cheaper than Aluminium and steel. ✔
23) 2 doors (excluding trunk).✔
24) 14ins wheels.✔

I actually had to laugh out loud after reading every item on this list. Tesla is not making a poverty spec model here.
They will not spend $10-15k on batteries and power train only to skimp a few hundred dollars on steel wheels w/ hubcaps vs. alloy wheels.
Unfoldable seats in a 5 door hatchback, not the best idea. Cost savings will be minimal
No aircon will be an absolute non-starter here in the US.
No dashboard.. Whaaaa?!?
5 inch touchscreen will be unusable and Tesla is focused on the user experience, and again they will not skimp on $100 over screen size.
Body half the size=half the materials=half the cost? Sorry, it doesn't work that way even if it seems rational.
Made of plastic, no.. they have big automated metal stamping machines, they will not invest in mfg again just to use a slightly cheaper material.
2 doors to save cost on handles and locks? That's some serious Soviet era penny pinching.
14 inch wheels w/ narrow tires will not work for anything over 140hp and EV torque.

As a general idea of what would be offered on the 35k model, take a look at whats on its target competitor, a 320i:
BMW 320i Sedan - Features & Specs - Standard Features - BMW North America


Add in internet connectivity for OTA updates, web browsing, multimedia, etc. and a $2500-$4k upgrade on 2nd gen autonomy activation.
A well optioned dual motor 60D will be in the mid 40's..(think 335i-340i pricing) 70D? will be close to $50K-55k depending on options and A fully specified P70D? will ring in close to $60k upto $65k, these will be the high-margin cars to recoup costs, whereas the base will be somewhat of a loss leader or one with very low margins.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

Verizon's new LTE network is an evolution of GSM. They still have a legacy CDMA network that they will probably have for the next decade, but going forward, they're going to use a version of GSM. Also, I just read somewhere that Ford will be using the AT&T network for its future built-in mobile & telematics services. The only reason I'd like to see VZW is to be able to add a car as an add-on to my monthly data plan. Then again, AT&T customers could say the same thing about GM, Tesla, etc.

Yea. I got the 2 mixed up.

I would love to be able to add my car to my data plan too.

I'm hoping the option to use VZW will be a pleasant surprise, but certainly not a dealbreaker

 

[vinnie97]

I'm a cheapskate who uses Straight Talk (over the VZW network). I switched out of protest when they decided they wouldn't honor my $100 enrollment credit. Straight Talk don't allow tethering unless you have a proprietary device, I'm betting that won't work on a proprietary vehicle.

 

[coco81]

Trying to cut down costs makes it harder to see. I think it is easier to compare with other large volume cars. I think its a pretty close comparison to say

$ ICE Components = $ EV Components - $ Battery

So for now an EV will cost roughly the battery pack more than an equivalent ICE. From the rough estimates we've seen for battery costs I assume the model 3 battery pack will be ~$10k.

So the base model 3 will be the equivalent to $25k ICE cars in rough quality of interior and finish.

But on top of these we have a few extra things going for the Model 3:

• EVs with large batteries have inherent higher performance potential
• Skateboard allows more radical design
• Skateboard allows more available volume (storage/passenger)
• Skateboard has low center of gravity for better handling
• Good designer who isn't trying to protect other model lines with crappier design
• Mostly electronic controls gives more features for same money
• Trickle down tech from S and X (versus legacy components from other cheap cars)

So as you can guess from my thoughts above, I think we'll see a pretty compelling car for $35k. But parts that aren't inherently superior in EV will add equivalent costs in options (leather, paint, sound, trim, sun roof, wheels)

You are missing two key differences...

1 - The price of the drivetrain. A 2.0 4 cilinder petrol engine and the 8 gear automatic transmission cost a lot of money, is much more expensive than a simple electric motor.

2 - The dealer piece of cake... around 10% of the sale value. Tesla sells directly to the customer and saves that money.

Considering the manufacturing cost of engine and transmission (at least 5000$) and 3500$ (more or less) for the dealer... it's almost the same Price of the battery. Even more if Tesla reach the 100$/KWh target.

$ ICE components - engine and transmission = $ EV - battery

35000$ Model 3 will be the equivalent to 35000$ ICE in quality of interior and finish. A real BMW 3-series/Audi A4/Benz C-class equivalent.

 

[tga]

Verizon uses CDMA. It's a more complex setup, modem/data-wise, which is why their phone selection isn't always the best.

I have a Verizon phone and AT+T data in the car.

I'd prefer Verizon, but I don't think they've ever done a data partnership with a car company.


The 2 major 4G/LTE offering car companies right now (Audi and GM) use AT&T.

I had to look it up to be sure, but Verizon and Sprint used CDMA up to/including 3G, but 4G is LTE/GSM.

Verizon's long term plan is to switch to VoIP based voice-over-LTE ("Advanced calling", "HD voice"), but I think they've committed to leave CDMA active for another 5 years.

OnStar was originally on the Verizon network (I got an offer to add it to my family plan), but I just read they switched to AT&T for the 2015 model year.

I suspect it's not that hard to build a device that works on most/all networks. I think the latest Qualcomm radio chips are pretty much universal; the latest Nexus phones work on pretty much every network (including Verizon & Sprint):

The Nexus 6P and 5X are compatible with major carriers in the U.S. — here are the full radio band listings | Android Central

 

[ModelNforNerd]

I had to look it up to be sure, but Verizon and Sprint used CDMA up to/including 3G, but 4G is LTE/GSM.

Verizon's long term plan is to switch to VoIP based voice-over-LTE ("Advanced calling", "HD voice"), but I think they've committed to leave CDMA active for another 5 years.

OnStar was originally on the Verizon network (I got an offer to add it to my family plan), but I just read they switched to AT&T for the 2015 model year.

I suspect it's not that hard to build a device that works on most/all networks. I think the latest Qualcomm radio chips are pretty much universal; the latest Nexus phones work on pretty much every network (including Verizon & Sprint):

The Nexus 6P and 5X are compatible with major carriers in the U.S. — here are the full radio band listings | Android Central

Yea, I have a Nexus 6P (love it). It works on VZW, but isn't "approved", so I had to use an activated SIM out of another phone. The bigger problem of getting all these cars on VZW....is how locked down they keep their network. Unless EM is ponying up cash to increase capacity, I'm not sure VZW signs on.

Stranger things have happened.

 

[CHG-ON]

Canvas bucket seats and roof, and a hole in the floor to start the car Fred Flintstone style!

 

[MiamiNole]

In order to get that price way down got to go beyond what is suggested. Here...

16) No Alloy wheels, steel with hubcaps instead. ✔
17) Unfoldable rear seats ✔
18) No aircon. ✔
19) No dashboard. Driving visuals to appear on touchscreen. ✔
20) Touchscreen to be 5ins. ✔
21) Body half the size of the S to reduce costs.✔
22) Body made out of plastic as its cheaper than Aluminium and steel. ✔
23) 2 doors (excluding trunk).✔
24) 14ins wheels.✔

++. It'd be nice to see Tesla stop waste their time going after the luxury and entry-level luxury segment and go after their TRUE competitor. The Smart Car. Taking down the Smart Car empire is definitely EM's long term goal!

(My sarcasm senses are always tingling. Surprised so many people gave actual responses to this. Great job!)

 

[Twiglett]

Assuming the structural capacity is elsewhere, using plastic body panels is probably not a bad idea.
Certainly way cheaper to replace when its gets dinged.
You could 3D-print them locally as well

And if the body is a streamliner with wheel covers, using 14inch steel wheels would be fine!

 

[Tam]

I actually had to laugh out loud after reading every item on this list. Tesla is not making a poverty spec model here.

There's no question that Tesla has been making great cars but so far with higher prices.

I believe that there's a niche who would just love to be able to afford a decent range and practical EV and they won't mind a lack of features/conveniences like basic A/C which is standard in comparable barebone pricing in other cars.

Thus, this thread has been very educational to me so I won't freak out if Tesla might indeed make a barebone really bare!

 

[Transepoch]

So as you can guess from my thoughts above, I think we'll see a pretty compelling car for $35k. But parts that aren't inherently superior in EV will add equivalent costs in options (leather, paint, sound, trim, sun roof, wheels)

Tesla Model 3, the fremium EV? Interesting way of thinking about it.

As to the internet coverage, didn't Tesla party-up with AT&T for service for the Model S? That would probably indicate which way they would lean for providing service to the newer models in their fleet.

 

[1208]

Canvas bucket seats and roof

25) Canvas bucket seats and roof. ✔

 

[docherf]

Just use a golf cart body. You'd get more cup holders than MS. [emoji4]

 

[Pollux]

A very interesting point!

Other thoughts:

+ Tesla may have a signifiant cost advantage due to not having accrued overheads from pensions, union-related benefits, fees, who-knows-what-else.

+ With Model 3, Tesla might have enough volume (or the prospect thereof) to start its own MVNO, which it would then also incorporate for S and X. They would keep control of the customer relationship and the customer experience, plus add a (decent?) revenue stream.

+ They could add WiFi hotspots to the Superchargers, opening up another benefit and maybe another revenue stream. Should other EV vendors start using Tesla SC infrastructure, WiFi would also be a benefit that those customers would appreciate.

I personally hope that Tesla is aggressively exploring offering Supercharging for free on the $35K base Model 3. The 3 will be coming out in an environment of radically lower gasoline cost than did the S. The SC network is a strategic advantage over all other EVs *and* the "free" aspect is very appealing versus ICEs. Of course, the numbers may not make this path affordable for Tesla. But the car's onboard SC-related hardware is probably pretty cheap and will be included in every vehicle going forward, so the significant expense for Tesla will be in continuing SC build-out and SC opex.

Alan

You are missing two key differences...

1 - The price of the drivetrain. A 2.0 4 cilinder petrol engine and the 8 gear automatic transmission cost a lot of money, is much more expensive than a simple electric motor.

2 - The dealer piece of cake... around 10% of the sale value. Tesla sells directly to the customer and saves that money.

Considering the manufacturing cost of engine and transmission (at least 5000$) and 3500$ (more or less) for the dealer... it's almost the same Price of the battery. Even more if Tesla reach the 100$/KWh target.

$ ICE components - engine and transmission = $ EV - battery

35000$ Model 3 will be the equivalent to 35000$ ICE in quality of interior and finish. A real BMW 3-series/Audi A4/Benz C-class equivalent.

 

[S3XY]

Base with 80?! That's quite the prediction. That would mean the upgrade would have to be at least 90 and possibly even 100?

While you misunderstood what he was saying I actually was thinking the Model ≡ might come with an 80 kWh pack with an option for 100 kWh. I know it sounds crazy now but will it two years from now? My thinking is that of economies of scale. It would be much more cost effective if they put the same battery pack in all of their models. The big question is whether they could fit them in the smaller sled. But with technological/chemical advances maybe it would be possible. One can dream...

 

[CaptainKirk]

In terms of features, keep in mind that Tesla will likely keep the centre console and dash (imo). This feature of having a connected car that can provide navigation is a HUGE feature and overlooked. Lexus.ca configurator charges $8900 CDN for a Luxury package that includes this and other items for an IS300. Simply having a navigation and infotainment in a base Tesla adds a lot of value.

 

[omarsultan]

I personally hope that Tesla is aggressively exploring offering Supercharging for free on the $35K base Model 3.

While a game changer, burying $2K of cost in a $35K car is tough, but maybe not any tougher than landing spaceships on boats. I can certainly see them doing what they did early on what the MS and bundling the SC into higher trim (bigger battery) models.

 

[Model 3]

Now, to demonstrate what this consumer considers to be a base Model 3....I wonder how much cost and manufacturing complexity including A/C adds to a vehicle. That is an unnecessary for an Alaskan vehicle, although those living in the 'hot' plains of Fairbanks would grizzle at how it would discomfit them for about six weeks out of a year. I also am old enough to remember the jokes told about "those Floridians" who would drive about Miami summers with their windows rolled up just so their fellow drivers wouldn't know they didn't opt for that "expensive" add-on...

I don't know about Alaska, but here in Norway we use the A/C in wintertime to dry the air in the cabin to avoid dew on the inside of the windows.

 

[Tam]

...we use the A/C in wintertime to dry the air in the cabin to avoid dew on the inside of the windows.

In cheap car models, A/C is optional and cost more. Can you dry the air in winter with included heater with no extra cost?