Battery and range issues

[OHM-Y]

We are extremely frustrated and upset. We just bought a '21 Model Y, with 6000 miles on it. We traded in our '23 Bolt EUV which consistently charged to 247 miles overnight. The Y does not. Sometimes 211, 213, 186, 240. The driven miles do not match the battery miles. One example is We charged overnight and charging said full at 213. We had a 158 miles trip we regularly made with the Bolt. After 50 miles with the Y, the battery miles were down to 129 (84 mile decrease for only driving 50 miles) and navigation said we did not have enough to make it to our destination, only 108 miles away. This was 50 miles on a straight, boring road. We set the cruise at 67, the inside temp set at 68' and the outside temp was 43'.
Why does it not consistently fully charge overnight to 240 miles available?
Why can I not expect to drive at least 200 miles before needing to charge?

We want to love this car, but so far when asked how we like it our answer is We Don't. We got a Tesla because of the infrastructure. We are newly retired and enjoy driving and sightseeing. But we have our doubts that we will be able to continue to do that.

Would you consider going back to a Bolt EUV? If not, why not? Very curious what you think here.

Sadly, I continue to be disappointed with this mileage aspect of ownership, and it's quite significant to me. Many others don't seem bothered by it, but the fact remains that if Tesla didn't have a charging network to help its owners and we owners had to rely on the charging infrastructure that other EVs have historically been relegated to, this issue would be HUGE. Teslas would be in need of charging up on trips FAR MORE than other EVs like the Bolt, Polestar 2, etc. I agree that it's incredibly frustrating to need a significant charge just to make routine trips in a MY that are <200 miles long when the advertised distance is 330 miles, especially when other EVs require comparatively fewer stops to charge, all things being equal.

I'm ready to get rid of the MY and am looking to test drive the Polestar and a couple others now. I've never been a Chevy fan, but at this point I'd just like an EV that can reliably get me to and from Boston so I can just charge at my destination, not spend an extra 25 minutes charging halfway there when that isn't required for friends driving the Bolt and the Polestar 2.

 

[exxxviii]

We are extremely frustrated and upset. We just bought a '21 Model Y, with 6000 miles on it. We traded in our '23 Bolt EUV which consistently charged to 247 miles overnight. The Y does not. Sometimes 211, 213, 186, 240. The driven miles do not match the battery miles. One example is We charged overnight and charging said full at 213. We had a 158 miles trip we regularly made with the Bolt. After 50 miles with the Y, the battery miles were down to 129 (84 mile decrease for only driving 50 miles) and navigation said we did not have enough to make it to our destination, only 108 miles away. This was 50 miles on a straight, boring road. We set the cruise at 67, the inside temp set at 68' and the outside temp was 43'.
Why does it not consistently fully charge overnight to 240 miles available?
Why can I not expect to drive at least 200 miles before needing to charge?

We want to love this car, but so far when asked how we like it our answer is We Don't. We got a Tesla because of the infrastructure. We are newly retired and enjoy driving and sightseeing. But we have our doubts that we will be able to continue to do that.

First blush is that something is significantly wrong with your car if it is only 2 years old and will not charge to more than 240 miles (73% of stated battery capacity). Have you contacted Tesla service to have them assess? The battery may be in warranty.

The Bolt is an awesome car, but the Tesla normally would crush its range.

 

[Watts_Up]

Would you consider going back to a Bolt EUV? If not, why not? Very curious what you think here.

Sadly, I continue to be disappointed with this mileage aspect of ownership, and it's quite significant to me. Many others don't seem bothered by it, but the fact remains that if Tesla didn't have a charging network to help its owners and we owners had to rely on the charging infrastructure that other EVs have historically been relegated to, this issue would be HUGE. Teslas would be in need of charging up on trips FAR MORE than other EVs like the Bolt, Polestar 2, etc. I agree that it's incredibly frustrating to need a significant charge just to make routine trips in a MY that are <200 miles long when the advertised distance is 330 miles, especially when other EVs require comparatively fewer stops to charge, all things being equal.

I'm ready to get rid of the MY and am looking to test drive the Polestar and a couple others now. I've never been a Chevy fan, but at this point I'd just like an EV that can reliably get me to and from Boston so I can just charge at my destination, not spend an extra 25 minutes charging halfway there when that isn't required for friends driving the Bolt and the Polestar 2.

You might be interested looking at this video comparing the range of a
Tesla Model 3 Performance, Chevy Bolt, KIA EV6, and Volvo XC40
in mountain road highway around Vail Pass and the Eisenhower-Johnson Memorial Tunnel.

The low weight of the Chevy Bolt was a favorable factor,
however if used, its 50kW charging speed vould have been detrimental.

I suppose that the Model 3 Performance and the Tesla Model Y would have been very similar,
unless the 400 lbs weight difference would have really made a difference.

 

[boulder.dude]

Teslas would be in need of charging up on trips FAR MORE than other EVs like the Bolt, Polestar 2, etc. I agree that it's incredibly frustrating to need a significant charge just to make routine trips in a MY that are <200 miles long when the advertised distance is 330 miles, especially when other EVs require comparatively fewer stops to charge, all things being equal.

Surprised to hear Bolt and Polestar now have greater range than Tesla MY.

Bolt has 65 kWh battery so not sure how it beats MY on range? (Charges at 50kWh which is significantly slower than any Tesla.)

Polestar recently (late Jan 2023) upgraded to 82 kWh battery which could give it better range, but it appears less aero than MY so not sure? Since it lacks 800V architecture does not have a charging edge over Tesla.

Would love to see your sources (for deeper reading before deciding on 2nd EV in our household) of how other EVs beat MY “far more” on range?

 

[MY-Y]

I have no issue going 250 miles in my MY with the AC blasting the whole time.

 

[boulder.dude]

I have no issue going 250 miles in my MY with the AC blasting the whole time.

… at 45 mph

 

[Jyz002]

Tesla’s secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

About a decade ago, Tesla rigged the dashboard readouts in its electric cars to provide “rosy” projections of how far owners can drive before needing to recharge, a source told Reuters.

www.reuters.com

While it’s true a lot of EVs won’t hit their stated range and vary by weather conditions, Tesla has been by far the worst in inflating their range per this article

 

[Quickst]

I don't think comparing a Bolt with a Y is a fair comparison. A Bolt is smaller and lighter than a Model 3

 

[boulder.dude]

While it’s true a lot of EVs won’t hit their stated range and vary by weather conditions, Tesla has been by far the worst in inflating their range per this article

Um, what doesn’t Tesla inflate?

 

[Vicj]

I feel the original poster's pain. I was also absolutely roasted by a lot of Tesla fan boys when I brought up this same subject in another thread.
Turns out, however, I was right. Tesla has been inflating their range numbers from the beginning, at the direction of Elon Musk. The recent article in Electrik, and independent testing by Edmunds confirms this inflation to be as much as 30%, using a loophole in the way the EPA ratings are established.
In the end, my Model Y gets just about the same range in the real world as my iD4, though Tesla always has claimed much higher range.
I smell a HUGE class action suit on the horizon, though the EPA, for its loose standards, may be just as much to blame. Some lawyer is going to get a very large settlement from Tesla. Scoff now, but just watch.

 

[Rocky_H]

You misspelled some things.

Tesla has been inflating their range numbers from the beginning, at the direction of Elon Musk.

"Tesla has been [following EPA policy]."

using a loophole in the way the EPA ratings are established.

"using [the appropriate and allowed EPA testing procedures]."

I will agree that it's stupid that the EPA has two such different test procedures offered, but that's an EPA problem. Those recent mud slinging articles don't mean sh%& as long as the EPA still has this dumb but authorized policy.

 

[exxxviii]

I feel the original poster's pain. I was also absolutely roasted by a lot of Tesla fan boys when I brought up this same subject in another thread.
Turns out, however, I was right. Tesla has been inflating their range numbers from the beginning, at the direction of Elon Musk. The recent article in Electrik, and independent testing by Edmunds confirms this inflation to be as much as 30%, using a loophole in the way the EPA ratings are established.
In the end, my Model Y gets just about the same range in the real world as my iD4, though Tesla always has claimed much higher range.
I smell a HUGE class action suit on the horizon, though the EPA, for its loose standards, may be just as much to blame. Some lawyer is going to get a very large settlement from Tesla. Scoff now, but just watch.

This is tin hat-grade. Edmunds literally confirms the opposite - that Tesla's EPA numbers are the industry's most accurate.

Refer back to the facts presented in this post: Help with math

I think you misunderstand what the EPA rating is and that Tesla is precisely following the legal requirements. The EPA range is not some arbitrary highway distance that some random individual might drive.

 

[Vicj]

I'm referring to the article in Electrik magazine. Read the article.

 

[exxxviii]

I'm referring to the article in Electrik magazine. Read the article.

I did and commented on it in another thread. That story has been floating around for a week or so. I am curious if anything comes of it. Tesla’s advertised EPA ranges are the most precise in the industry, according to Edmunds’ independent range testing. (Tesla's EPA ranges were not that good 6-7 years ago, before they refined their processes.)

I suspect the issue is that people are butthurt that BEV get worse than EPA range in highway driving and lose 10% to 20% range in extreme temperatures. It looks like the team was designed to suppress those kinds of complaints.

I read articles that compared this to VW's Dieselgate, but ultimately acknowledged that the industry and investor response was pretty much a nothing burger. So, it doesn't seem like a thing that will get traction.

 

[Vicj]

As I said. You can mock me all you want to. The lawsuits WILL come. Here's another one, done buy consumer reports, just released:

Tesla Model Y Fails To Meet Range Claims Year Round: Consumer Reports

The Tesla Model Y Long Range, Ford Mustang Mach-E extended range, Hyundai Ioniq 5, and Volkswagen ID.4 Pro S were tested in the same manner by the same drivers.

insideevs.com

You can argue methodology, or parse figures any way you like, but the truth remains that Tesla has always exaggerated the range. It only takes one congressman who wants to win points in the south to start hearings....

 

[Goobers]

As I said. You can mock me all you want to. The lawsuits WILL come. Here's another one, done buy consumer reports, just released:

Tesla Model Y Fails To Meet Range Claims Year Round: Consumer Reports

The Tesla Model Y Long Range, Ford Mustang Mach-E extended range, Hyundai Ioniq 5, and Volkswagen ID.4 Pro S were tested in the same manner by the same drivers.

insideevs.com

You can argue methodology, or parse figures any way you like, but the truth remains that Tesla has always exaggerated the range. It only takes one congressman who wants to win points in the south to start hearings....

Let’s start with these thoughts…

Tesla’s MPG numbers are EPA approved. In that, the EPA is putting its trust that Tesla followed their testing criteria and that, if the EPA were to do the test themselves, they would get effectively the same numbers.

The EPA is a government agency, whose sole existence is dependent on funding from the US government, specifically, the congressional budget.

So, that means any “one congressman” is automatically partially responsible for the EPA.

If Tesla falsified the numbers, then the EPA erroneously approved it. That would require a congressional hearing on the EPA itself, rather than Tesla, on why the EPA didn’t catch this. Which some can view as a pie in the face of congress, since they fund them.

As a side note… folks have taken car makers to court over MPG numbers, namely about a Honda Civic Hybrid. The owner initially won in the beginning, but Honda appealed and won on the appeal.

The judge said

In the Peters case, Gray ruled that the automaker was within its rights to advertise the Environmental Protection Agency-derived fuel-economy ratings for the vehicle and rejected the idea that it misled Peters with the claims.

“Federal regulations control the fuel-economy ratings posted on vehicles and advertising claims related to those fuel-economy ratings,” Gray wrote in the ruling.

The judge also noted that the EPA’s estimated miles-per-gallon ratings are for comparison among vehicles and don’t take into account variations, such as how people drive and the conditions of their vehicles, that may affect fuel economy.

Honda wins appeal in Civic hybrid mileage lawsuit

Honda wins appeal in Civic hybrid mileage lawsuit

www.latimes.com

 

[exxxviii]

As I said. You can mock me all you want to. The lawsuits WILL come. Here's another one, done buy consumer reports, just released:

You can argue methodology, or parse figures any way you like, but the truth remains that Tesla has always exaggerated the range. It only takes one congressman who wants to win points in the south to start hearings....

Consumer Reports test is idiotic. "In the Consumer Reports test, which consisted of constant cruising on the highway at 70 miles per hour." This is not an EPA test protocol and it makes no sense to compare that to EPA. Morons.

If the EPA test is done correctly, no BEV should ever exceed its EPA range in a 70 MPH test. That is a nonsense comparison. InsideEVs did their battery of 70 MPH tests, and about 80% to 85% of stated EPA range is pretty common for cars with accurate EPA ranges.

Guess what... when CR did their 70 MPH runs in moderate temperatures, they got pretty much what everyone else did. Nothing burger here.

Tesla's ranges are not exaggerated. They are the most precise in the industry. That is fact.

 

[Vicj]

We'll see

 

[Vicj]

And that was my entire point... and the point of the tests. Yes... in REAL WORLD driving, 70 mph, all the EV's actually got about the same actual range (which was my entire point all along). However, for the others, that range was very close to, or exceeded the range they claimed to get. The Model Y, on the other hand, while getting about the same as the other EV's in the test, got far less than their claimed range. Significantly less.

Bottom line is that some congressman, or some lawyer, is going to label this as "fraud" (I'm not saying it is, just saying someone will call it that), and try to benefit from it.

So, you can defend Tesla till your blue in the face, but test evidence is not favoring Tesla these days in REAL WORLD driving range. Your correct that part of the issue was the way the EPA would accept manufacturer data for range, without actually conducting tests. But that's also about to end.

Again. Flame me all you like. A lawsuit is coming. A jury trial in a blue state somewhere is not going to think it's a big "nothingburger".

 

[exxxviii]

So, you can defend Tesla till your blue in the face, but test evidence is not favoring Tesla these days in REAL WORLD driving range. Your correct that part of the issue was the way the EPA would accept manufacturer data for range, without actually conducting tests. But that's also about to end.

Again. Flame me all you like. A lawsuit is coming. A jury trial in a blue state somewhere is not going to think it's a big "nothingburger".

The test evidence is actually favoring Tesla. Somebody would have to prove that they misrepresent EPA range, as directed by the federal government. The tests indicate that they have the most precise EPA of anyone. So, if a blue lawyer wants to throw shade and claim fraud in a court, they have to show that Tesla did something wrong. The facts seem to indicate that they are doing everything right.

Sharing facts and objective data are not flaming.

I had a car that the manufacturer fudged the EPA test. They figured it out and had a class action suit pretty quickly. I had a gas card for occasional free refills to compensate for what I lost in the EPA test. So far, nobody is even hinting that Tesla has bad EPA data. They are just butthurt that they to not understand that EPA range is vastly different from continuous 70 MPH highway range.