Burned by Tesla on idle fees. Something to know

[Pinot.Noir]

What could they do? They can't do anything, except perhaps push for legislation so that ICE cars could be ticketed... Good luck with that.

They could install tire piercers in the ground at each supercharger location. When an ICE car is reported, the sharp tongs pierce all 4 tires of the car in question, and that Tard never makes the same mistake again!

 

[David99]

The thing is that common courtesy and common sense should prevail.

That's a noble thought
In more than 3 years and many road trips I have never left my car plugged in at a Supercharger over night. It's fundamentally wrong IMHO.

 

[kort677]

This is when you go to each car and press the button on the handle of the supercharger cable to see if the ring comes back to life as a solid green or pulsing green. Make a video of each solid green and catch the license plate, and VIN while you're at it. Do whatever you want with the video. There used to be an ICE shaming website. Maybe there will be a new "Sleeping at the SC shaming site" just for Tesla owner to encourage one another.. not to appear there.

wow so you're advocating everyone become a supercharger nannie? let us know how this works out for you

 

[kort677]

They could install tire piercers in the ground at each supercharger location. When an ICE car is reported, the sharp tongs pierce all 4 tires of the car in question, and that Tard never makes the same mistake again!

they'll work on that idea after FSD is fully implemented

 

[kort677]

While I agree (ish) that most hotels should have destination chargers, it's a bit of magical thinking to think that would solve the problem. If they have 2 destination chargers and 4 people with Teslas are staying the night then someone will make a "rule" that you should supercharge to 90% then use the Level 2, then disconnect and move so someone else can use it...or some such thing.

The thing is that common courtesy and common sense should prevail. If you plug in at 5pm for the night, you probably should move even at a low volume location. If you get there at 1am and are leaving at 6am, it's probably ok to stay plugged in (or at least I believe so). If it's a high volume place, then you maybe should wait to plug in until the volumes decrease if you're not going anywhere anyway, then unplug and move immediately when you have adequate charge.

There is no one 'right' way here and those who are so pedantic to suggest that there is are not really considering all circumstances, such as the one I gave earlier in my example. Had I thought there was any chance my staying plugged in would inconvenience anyone, I would have moved it. I do try to leave my number on the car so someone could call me if absolutely necessary...I didn't see anyone else suggest that. And there's the implied risk of the fine if more than 50% occupied, so that should be incentive for most people to not take the risk if they think there's any chance that could happen. Under the same circumstances, I'll stay plugged in overnight in the future...not because I don't care or am narcissistic, but because it's logical, reasonable and doesn't risk inconveniencing anyone else.

that's a very charitable view.
however if I am in need of a charge and someone with a few of your "special" circumstance types are blocking the chargers and I am either delayed or unable to charge I really cannot remain sympathetic to their "special" needs.
the issue, to use a tmc friendly term, is very binary, charging ok, parking at an SPC, not ok.
for the good of the entire tesla community the culture has to become one where this is non thinking choice. If your car is finished charging move the car from the charging spot.

 

[andrewket]

I'm wondering if Tesla computes 50% occupancy in some way we're not thinking of...
First off, only Tesla knows (unless you try each one yourself) if any of the stalls are off-line (e.g. needs maintenance).
And maybe Tesla uses an algorithm like total available power for the whole site, and uses a meter rate of consumption for the whole site as its measure. And the algorithm uses formulae with charge taper curves taken into account, and makes some logical deduction of how many cars have recently visited and not just "there right now"... You could be pulling up to a completely unoccupied SC site but all the charges in the boxes are still hot from 6 cars that just left... And the nav says 4 out of 8 occupied. Well... maybe the units just have to cool off a bit and a little time will cause the deduced usage to average down... to zero.

I've only ever seen the report of occupancy as an even number like "4 out of 8" never something odd like 3 of 8.
I wonder if this has to do with with the A/B split scheme for stalls.. and Tesla really can't tell by meter sampling alone if that means 1 or 2 cars are there so it just defaults safe and uses "2" if either / or / both sides a numbered stall A/B are occupied. Know what I'm saying?

I get what your saying, but I sincerely doubt that tesla is evaluating power for the entire site when determining idle fees. It's overly complicated, hard if not impossible to convey to customers, and imho not necessary. I have seen odd number of stalls available.

I also think it's unlikely that the denominator is reduced for out of service stalls. A customer would have to know that those stalls are offline. Unless they are blocked, or they happen to try one of those stalls, they are unlikely to know. We could test this ....

 

[efusco]

that's a very charitable view.
however if I am in need of a charge and someone with a few of your "special" circumstance types are blocking the chargers and I am either delayed or unable to charge I really cannot remain sympathetic to their "special" needs.
the issue, to use a tmc friendly term, is very binary, charging ok, parking at an SPC, not ok.
for the good of the entire tesla community the culture has to become one where this is non thinking choice. If your car is finished charging move the car from the charging spot.

Fortunately, you're not the boss of that. I'll abide by Tesla's standards and will be willing to risk the idle fee, but I'm not getting up at 3am to move my car on the off chance that 8 Teslas show up simultaneously at a 8 place supercharger at 4am in a rural and very low usage location. If I'm in Southern CA, sure, i get it. I'll move. But all circumstances are not the same and the situation is not binary.

 

[kort677]

but I'm not getting up at 3am to move my car on the off chance that 8 Teslas show up simultaneously at a 8 place supercharger at 4am in a rural and very low usage location. If I'm in Southern CA, sure, i get it. I'll move. But all circumstances are not the same and the situation is not binary.

are you trying to imply that the location of the SpC impacts upon whether you'd block the unit or not?
hmmm. is there a map that the rest of the world can access that shows where you believe that "proper" SpC use is in play and the locations people can just do what works for them?
I suppose that when it comes to who gets to charge, it's your world and everyone else just has to try and survive in it.

 

[efusco]

are you trying to imply that the location of the SpC impacts upon whether you'd block the unit or not?

Absolutely. Other than during the eclipse, to my knowledge, there has never been more than 3 teslas at the Columbia MO supercharger at a time even during daylight hours. If I show up at 12:30am and need a 90 minute charge it is crazy to think that that location will suddenly fill up or that I will be somehow inconveniencing any one. If it's 5pm in SoCal, it's a totally different game.

hmmm. is there a map that the rest of the world can access that shows where you believe that "proper" SpC use is in play and the locations people can just do what works for them?

Nope, but considering my familiarity with this part of the world and utilization, I have no qualms about making those judgments. Likewise, if I were in the middle of North Dakota, Hayes, KS or other similarly remote locations under similar circumstances and arrived at a wee hour to an empty 8 spot supercharger, I would reasonably assume that it is safe to use. Some of us can use logic, reason and judgement for such choices. The issue here isn't a pedantic binary one, it's one of consideration for others. And your implication is that I"m being inconsiderate, I'm saying just the opposite. I'm making very considered choices and if I think there's a chance that choice would inconvenience anyone, I would do something differently...even if it means getting up at 3am to move the car.

I suppose that when it comes to who gets to charge, it's your world and everyone else just has to try and survive in it.

Not at all, nor is it your world to decide what the rules are. I'm saying we all need to be logical, reasonable and considerate and that is exactly what I've done.

 

[kort677]

I'll let that comment stand on it's own

 

[Ulmo]

Tesla instituted 40 cents per hour fees some time ago to alleviate congestion. People leaving cars there.

well, I travel from MI down south a lot. In the midwest there is rarely anyone at a supercharger. So I left my car plugged in overnight while I slept (save an hour of trip time). I did this knowing there is never anyone at the station.

Tesla sent me a bill. I'm like 'that's impossible' no way that station got full in the night. (i was only one there in the morning too)
So I read policy and Tesla changed it from SC station full to 50% full. I didn't know this. I have my doubts that it ever got 50% full but it's something to know if you plan on leaving it plugged in at a deserted station.

I think the title is misleading; what $ amount would be required to "burn" you? What $ amount was it? The fact you omitted the $ amount suggests some sort of less-than-accurate thing.

 

[Ulmo]

Never leave a Tesla plugged in overnight at a Supercharger or even unplugged and occupying a stall space. Tesla clearly does not want that to happen. That is part of the reason that the idle fees were introduced.

And “knowing there is never anyone at the station” is making an unwarranted assumption based on incomplete data. You can’t “know” that. Regardless, what matters is that a Tesla should not be parked in a Supercharger stall space for any longer than a few minutes after it has completed charging. I think you knew that.

I argue it should be closer to 10 to 15 minutes (since most SuperChargers are nowhere near anywhere useful to spend time during the wait for the car to charge, and a charge can stop for any reason at any time without notice), but other than that, yes.

 

[Ulmo]

Let's say you arrive well after midnight and just want to get a few hours of shut eye just before leaving at 7 am. Are you telling me that you are going to stay up an extra hour and wait for charging to complete? Let's say there are 12 stalls at the site. Do you really believe 11 others are going to arrive in the middle of the night? If yes, show us proof.

In this case, the car should move itself. Elon?

 

[Ulmo]

I've tried this before. It doesn't work well at all. The car ended up taking twice as long to charge in the morning because the battery cooled down significantly overnight.

Split-charge. Charge for 10 minutes before going to bed, and finish the next day. That first 10 minutes will knock off a huge portion of your time wait.

Also, plan your destination chargers better. Many hotels have destination chargers. I spent 3 months doing destination-charger only hotels when I traveled in a Tesla, and my life was a lot simpler.

Does preconditioning the car work? You can have the car pre-condition before you go out to charge it in the morning; as soon as you wake up, set it to warm up from the app.

The other thing is plan your sleeping better. If you're so tired you can hardly stay awake while charging for 10 to 15 minutes, then were you even safe driving before you got there in the first place? When this was poorly planned by me, I ended up quite a few times parked somewhere where the car was not getting charged, then when I awoke, I'd still have to go to a charger. At least I could take a walk (in the same old boring SuperCharger location) when I got to the SuperCharger. This taught me to plan better, and make less assumptions. Also, learning how my car worked and practices made this almost unconsciously easy, compared to when I started.

I wish Tesla would put more priority on self-charging cars, so they can move to and from the SuperCharger on their own. Tesla could install automatic arms on cars and/or chargers to plug/unplug the plugs, with proper reattempts to make it work reliably. Then the cars would at least leave the charging area and go somewhere else within the same parking lot, ready for the owner when they get back. If the robot arms were on the cars themselves, they could be programmed to work with almost every charger (including Level 2), where similar concerns exist (but at a slower rate).

 

[bonnie]

I'm in the camp of 'don't leave your car at a Supercharger after done charging'. I've seen remote locations fill up with a pod of Teslas coming through. (I can find some pics of Tesla Road Trip showing up at a remote location & several spots blocked because 'no one is ever here'.)

Usually I try to find a hotel with a Destination charger or J1772 (and I still leave my contact info on the car) - then I don't have to deal with any of that 'move your car' nonsense. But if I didn't have a choice, I'd leave it charging while I checked in & then would move it, and finish in the morning.

Everyone's time is valuable, I get that. Part of moving is because I do know of times where a bunch of Teslas show up at once. And part of it is because the next wave of EV owners will learn from us. We are role models for the next group of owners. If we're unwilling to move because we think we know better, they're going to be worse. It's a given.

 

[apacheguy]

Also, plan your destination chargers better. Many hotels have destination chargers. I spent 3 months doing destination-charger only hotels when I traveled in a Tesla, and my life was a lot simpler.

Well if Tesla puts superchargers along an interstate at a hotel then it really is common sense to have a couple destination chargers reserved for hotel guests overnight. In comparison to the cost of a supercharger site ($250->300 K), a few HPWCs adds nothing to the cost.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

Likewise, if I were in the middle of North Dakota, Hayes, KS or other similarly remote locations under similar circumstances and arrived at a wee hour to an empty 8 spot supercharger, I would reasonably assume that it is safe to use.

Speaking of the 6 stall Supercharger in Hays, KS, I showed up there on 12/26/16, probably one of the busiest travel days of the holiday season. I found one inconsiderate local blocking half the stalls in the middle of the day.

Unfortunately, there's no way idle fees can be charged properly for someone who parks like this:

 

[apacheguy]

The thing is that common courtesy and common sense should prevail. If you plug in at 5pm for the night, you probably should move even at a low volume location. If you get there at 1am and are leaving at 6am, it's probably ok to stay plugged in (or at least I believe so). If it's a high volume place, then you maybe should wait to plug in until the volumes decrease if you're not going anywhere anyway, then unplug and move immediately when you have adequate charge.

There is no one 'right' way here and those who are so pedantic to suggest that there is are not really considering all circumstances, such as the one I gave earlier in my example. Had I thought there was any chance my staying plugged in would inconvenience anyone, I would have moved it. I do try to leave my number on the car so someone could call me if absolutely necessary...I didn't see anyone else suggest that. And there's the implied risk of the fine if more than 50% occupied, so that should be incentive for most people to not take the risk if they think there's any chance that could happen. Under the same circumstances, I'll stay plugged in overnight in the future...not because I don't care or am narcissistic, but because it's logical, reasonable and doesn't risk inconveniencing anyone else.

Agree. And talk about being logical. I wish the folks in this thread would get more worked up about the people that charge at a supercharger at 5 pm and have an ICE waiting to ferry them off to run errands while their car is picking up free juice.

 

[croman]

They could install tire piercers in the ground at each supercharger location. When an ICE car is reported, the sharp tongs pierce all 4 tires of the car in question, and that Tard never makes the same mistake again!

Even if it wasn't illegal, its a stupid idea because the ICE cars would block the charger for even longer.

The other thing is plan your sleeping better. If you're so tired you can hardly stay awake while charging for 10 to 15 minutes, then were you even safe driving before you got there in the first place?

+1. Its silly this is generating this much discussion. Golden Rule people.

 

[croman]

Agree. And talk about being logical. I wish the folks in this thread would get more worked up about the people that charge at a supercharger at 5 pm and have an ICE waiting to ferry them off to run errands while their car is picking up free juice.

I've seen that. It is bad. But this thread is about idle fees and not Supercharging etiquette generally.