Burned by Tesla on idle fees. Something to know

[kort677]

Let's say you arrive well after midnight and just want to get a few hours of shut eye just before leaving at 7 am. Are you telling me that you are going to stay up an extra hour and wait for charging to complete? Let's say there are 12 stalls at the site. Do you really believe 11 others are going to arrive in the middle of the night? If yes, show us proof.

that's awfully presumptive and arrogant on your part.
one time I pulled into an 8 unit SpC that nobody else was charging at, within 5 minutes 6 other cars showed up. the point is you cannot discern when or how many cars might arrive looking for a charge.
don't be so self centered and move your car when the charge is completed.

 

[kort677]

It's $24 per hour. Since he said he was sleeping that could be $200.

I just wish Tesla cared enough about this topic to do something about ICErs, they've been more of a problem than sleeping Tesla owners in my experience.

taking care of ICING is far more problematic. lacking local ordinances and sometimes the lack of cooperation from the property owner where the SPC is located there isn't much that can be done by tesla to stop ICING. all you can do when encountering an ICED SpC is to call into tesla and alert them to the problem at that location.

 

[kort677]

Some places have passed legislation that does just that.
Special Sign Needed to Enforce Rhode Island Anti-ICEing Law - PlugInSites - EV Charging Resources

you are correct and the only way to motivate localities to enact the necessary parking regs is for EV owners to advocate for these anti icing laws. sadly there are many who like to complain but are unaware of how the processes work to get laws changed.

 

[apacheguy]

In this case, go to bed, when you get up, go plug your car in, shower, breakfast, whatever and then depart as you normally would. You are fully charged and you have NOT blocked anyone else from charging.

I've tried this before. It doesn't work well at all. The car ended up taking twice as long to charge in the morning because the battery cooled down significantly overnight.

Man, people are harsh... I am completely in line with the general concept that if you're not charging that it's best to not occupy the spot. But let me give an example of a very recent trip of mine. I was driving from St. Louis to Kansas City. We didn't get to leave STL until about 10:30pm getting us to the Holiday Inn Express where the SpC is located after midnight. We had to be up at 6 am the next morning to get to a meeting in KC. It takes a solid 90 minutes to get a 100% charge and there were zero cars at that SpC at 12:30am when we got checked in. While I could have, and per a number of posters her should have, gotten up at 3 am, dressed, gone down and moved my car to make a full 8 empty spots just in case 8 other Teslas simultaneously showed up sometime between 3am and 6am, that is just totally ridiculous.

Because Tesla recognizes that that is ridiculous they implemented the idle charging rule for >50% of chargers in use criteria. Let's not be pedantic here.

To the OP, if you're confident that there never were enough cars for 50%, then I'd call Tesla...hell, I'd call anyway and I suspect a simple apology would get you out of the charge. It doesn't appear anyone was inconvenienced by your choice and they, perhaps, were just sending a shot across your bow.

@efusco totally agree.

that's awfully presumptive and arrogant on your part.
one time I pulled into an 8 unit SpC that I was the only one charging at, within 5 minutes 6 other cars showed up. the point is you cannot discern when or how many cars might arrive looking for a charge.
don't be so self centered and move your car when the charge is completed.

I've seen arrogant, self centered jackasses at superchargers. I'm not one of them, I assure you. What I stated was a hypothetical and yet you misinterpreted it to mean that I leave my vehicle unattended at a supercharger. Wow, dude.

 

[RiverBrick]

...

(4) However, their occupancy detection seems inaccurate at least as often as it’s accurate, so I have some doubts it actually got 50% full during the night.

As much as I am for idle fees, it's a problem billing people when you don't know when and if 50% occupancy occurs.

 

[kort677]

Is Tesla renting the parking spaces for Superchargers? If so, they should be within their rights to have offending vehicles towed.

that is far from correct. there are many different formats for site leases employed by tesla and many localities will not ticket or allow towing without ordinances restricting parking are in place.

 

[Big Earl]

that is far from correct. there are many different formats for site leases employed by tesla and many localities will not ticket or allow towing without ordinances restricting parking are in place.

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[rhumbliner]

Many Superchargers have "general parking" permitted signs presumably due to requirements of the lot owner not wanting to give up too much parking for other customers.

Possibly, but generally the local zoning authority dictates how many a parking spaces must be provided by a business. If the space is allocated as “Tesla Only” then the business can no longer count that spot toward their zoning requirement. If it’s a shared spot, i.e., “30 Minute General Parking”, then the business does not “lose” that spot.

 

[Az_Rael]

Supercharger traffic is incredibly variable. In my limited experience, I have seen an 18 stall supercharger with only 4 spots open when I arrive, and then only 2 other cars there when I came back just 30 minutes later.

So if the OP was at a 4 stall charger, only 1 additional car would need to show up for idle fees to trigger. That seems a highly likely scenario when leaving a car overnight. Even at a 6 stall, it is certainly possible for the station to have hit 50% capacity at some point in the night. Also, another overnight hotel guest could have plugged in after the OP got there, AND left before the OP, further reducing the number of passing travelers required to hit the 50% full trigger.

They really need to have Level 2 chargers installed at hotels with supercharger stations. It would provide spots for overnight guests to charge without the temptation of leaving a car at an "empty" SC.

 

[Lloyd]

I've tried this before. It doesn't work well at all. The car ended up taking twice as long to charge in the morning because the battery cooled down significantly overnight.

Take a longer shower!

 

[bcsteeve]

I notice the OP is from MI and a lot of the hard-liners that have zero compassion are from CA and I have to wonder... is it a matter of perspective? I get the "never do it" mantra... cause sure, we should follow the rules. But then, never speed, never do a rolling stop, never punch a peace officer (wait, what?). Rules are... well, often bent and left to interpretation and context matters. We all speed when we know it is perfectly safe to do so and we all roll through stop signs that shouldn't be there in the first place (there are a ton in my subdivision that really should be yields). Can't that extend to superchargers? In California where we know there aren't enough to go around, then of course its a touchy subject and "no means no". But I can feel for the OP if his area is like my area. I'll take that $200 fine and bet any one of you that we can set up a camera and watch and my local SpC *never ever ever* gets to the point where hogging a spot is causing anyone any issue at all.

Does that mean the rules shouldn't be there? Or that they shouldn't be applied? No, of course not. But perhaps it means we can cut the guy a break and a little sympathy. OBVIOUSLY - given that he posted - the bill came as a bit of a shock to him. It certainly would be to me! Is it a legit bill? Sure. But do we need to come down on him like he really did something "wrong"? Fact is, he didn't. His taking up that space didn't cause anyone the slightest amount of grief. 50% is a line Tesla drew in the sand, but as long as there is one free spot when a car arrives, no harm no foul (ok ok, we can argue about dropped rates but realistically there was in all likelihood way more than one free spot and it is unlikely anyone suffered lower rates because of what he did).

I'm not excusing him. Lesson learned. But if I were Tesla, I'd be letting him off with a warning. In fact, we should all be granted one gimme. I bought used and nobody ever told me about this fine. I knew about it from obsessively reading the website, but is that a requirement for purchase? No. There's no signs posted on the chargers. The app doesn't even say anything until it is too late... but then, the app also isn't required equipment. What if I didn't have the app? What if I didn't have a phone? How am I supposed to know that there's a charge? Its those hypothetical "what if" that should give each owner a warning prior to enforcement.

 

[Leopold Stotch]

I would never leave my X in a SC stall like that. Maybe I’d leave my ICE car in front of a gas pump while I go off for a nap. But never a SC.

 

[bcsteeve]

BTW, what is the app supposed to do in terms of messaging? Sometimes I get the "charging is almost finished" message, but not always, and almost never when it actually is "almost" finished. Usually I get the message 5 minutes after I've walked away from the car and there's still 30 minutes left to charge. I've never gotten a "finished" message. I've certainly never gotten any warning about fees. Maybe I'm using it wrong lol. I use superchargers basically in two ways: 1) when I feel cheap and/or I have extra time and/or want to do some shopping near my local charger; 2) on the route to my Mom's where I have two chargers on the way and have to either spend 55 minutes at one or 20 minutes at both (I usually do the single). In both cases, I don't think I've yet let my car for more than 10 minutes after it has finished. Usually I'm back before it finishes and I just leave.

 

[bak_phy]

I thought that at this point in time the cars would be parking, charging and re-parking themselves elsewhere all while the owner was soundly asleep. All on private property off course.
Perhaps things haven't progressed quite as fast as promised.

 

[rhumbliner]

However, their occupancy detection seems inaccurate at least as often as it’s accurate, so I have some doubts it actually got 50% full during the night.

Not to distract from the point of this thread — I completely agree with Tesla’s policy — but I have visited SC’s where my in dash map says the location has 4 of 8 stalls busy when in fact there is no one there. Their occupancy detection definitely is not accurate.

 

[rhumbliner]

I notice the OP is from MI and a lot of the hard-liners that have zero compassion are from CA and I have to wonder...

As a transplant from the Midwest, I doubt its a regional thing. I, too, view the OP as uncaring for others. Certain rules like rolling stops and exceeding the speed limit don't inconvenience anyone if done safely. However, taking up a charging spot overnight makes the assumption that absolutely no one will need a late night charge. Sure there are other stalls open, but are they all fully functional? Suppose a Tesla club pulls thru late at night? I have, in fact, rolled thru Casper, WY at 2am and charged at the Hilton Garden Inn for an hour (with the permission of the front desk) and continued my journey . If both their chargers were occupied by sleeping owners I would have been screwed.

My conscience would bother me if I did what the OP did.

 

[WhiskySTL]

Some places have passed legislation that does just that.
Special Sign Needed to Enforce Rhode Island Anti-ICEing Law - PlugInSites - EV Charging Resources

Oh I'm sure that a few have... but unfortunately I am skeptical that it will become widespread any time in the foreseeable future.

 

[d21mike]

The OP said he wanted to save 1 hour of trip time. Would it not be better to plug in for a short amount of time "while" you get checked into the hotel and get to your room? Even a 30 minute charge would give you a pretty good charge. And then a top off the next morning if required? Not sure you would loose that much time but you would have to walk back out to the car at least 1 extra time. If I was in a rush I think my first stop would be the chargers before heading into the hotel.

 

[ThosEM]

I can sympathize with the OP because I found myself in a similar situation at Plymouth NC, where the SC is in the parking lot of a Holiday Inn Express. I could look out the window and see the car charging. I was tired and ready for shut-eye before the car was finished, and there were no other cars so I left it running and did not check back in for it to be finished. In the morning there was another car, but I have no idea whether more were there during the night. No charge accrued since this was before the policy was active.

Certainly as SCs get busier, drivers must be deterred from treating SCs like their personal home charging system.

 

[Brass Guy]

I don't think we're in San Mateo anymore.

Oh - I can see it's flashing green, I'm OK.
BTW, I did leave as soon as I had enough charge.