Well, just looking at the Barstow SC on the map, sure, your lot may have been full except for the SC slots. But that property is surrounded by truck stops, restaurants, and lots of open parking areas. There is a giant open lot right across the street from the hotel. Why not charge then park across the street?
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Well, just looking at the Barstow SC on the map, sure, your lot may have been full except for the SC slots. But that property is surrounded by truck stops, restaurants, and lots of open parking areas. There is a giant open lot right across the street from the hotel. Why not charge then park across the street?
aesculus
Still Trying to Figure This All Out
d21mike
Active Member
Do you think this has to be a "one way" communication? Why can't the Servers check on the status of each Charger at the point they want to start charging idle fees?
Example:
If it detects the site is 50% full and a car is done charging. It could simply SCAN all of the chargers to make sure it is really 50% full instead of just assuming it is based on one way reporting. And maybe since it is billing at .40 cents "per minute" why not just SCAN every minute while it is charging. That way it would seem to be more accurate and maybe what Elon really intended to happen.
Also, would be great to get more warnings..... This happened to me.
I stopped at a busy location in my home city with maybe 4 of 8 chargers open. I generally charge at home but was really just testing the system with my NEW CAR (few weeks old). Anyway, I mainly only needed to charge for about 15 minutes because my car was > 50% charged and it was set to 80% maximum charge. While going to the bathroom I got a notice something to affect that the site was full and I was "now" being charge .40% idea fee. Well I got over there as soon as I could and never got a bill. But would have been nice to get some warning first. Maybe because I was just not there very long but to get only 1 text like that felt wrong. You may say that warnings come out only if your are charging > 15 minutes but I think before you get the notice of you are now being billed you should at least get a 5 minute warning.
vdiv
Chief Grump
Just so glad that Tesla is rapidly building more supercharging. Thank you for leading the way, overstaying and chipping in! Who's in, making an extra contribution? 
C'mon! Let's make lemonade!
C'mon! Let's make lemonade!
FlatSix911
Porsche 918 Hybrid
Sounds like this was an inexpensive lesson ... $16.40 for overnight parking is a dealLet me correct those with misinformation because this thread is out of control.
1. I am not mad about the policy, I like it. It's needed. I'm simply informing people so they don't have happen what happened to me.
2. The fee is 40 cents per minute, not hour.
3. The fee happens when 1/2 of the bays are full and goes away when someone leaves. In my case, 8 bays, 3 people must have been there at some point.
4. I was not notified or even emailed. I didn't even know until I logged onto my account to check on my model 3 reservation.
5. I paid $16.40 and the invoice lists 41 units at .4 per unit. If someone wants to call me out, I'll post the invoice. Even still, this is less than a tank of gas. Electric FTW here.
To those calling me out about details.
It was 3am. I was in Lexington. I got sick in my road trip and was throwing up on the side of the road (motion sick, drove tail of the dragon).
I had to get a place and rest, it was unsafe to keep driving. I thought it was reasonable to assume a place with no one ever there, that spots would not fill up. I could not get up at 4am to move the car. I was sick. I was sleeping. I was 20 minutes away. I stayed at a friends place. To charge and move was not efficient. I'd have paid $100 at that point for an extra hour of sleep in a bed.
Here's what Elon first said about the idle fees:
Elon Musk
✔@elonmusk
We are going to modify this so that people only pay a fee if most bays are occupied. If the site is basically deserted, no problem to park.
9:52 AM - Dec 17, 2016
That is different than 50%. That is what I'm saying. I'm just posting here to inform people because Tesla/Elon has a habit of saying one thing and it changing later. Elon specifically said it was 'no problem' to park if it is deserted. That's what I did.
You know the idle fee program is kind of new. The occupancy counter is kind of new. I would consider this likely a kink in the system and $16 is no big deal.
Going forward, the occupancy sensor needs to be better if we are charging people. The App should have better settings for notifications. I would like to see a setting that would alert me if I was truly about to be charged. So I sleep at the Plymouth Holiday Inn Express and it is empty. If there is a 2 AM rush, then notify me that I am starting to get charged. I then choose to sleep or pay a hefty price.
I have never been to Plymouth but outside of a holiday weekend, I will place a large bet that it isn't over 50% ever in the middle of the night - except other HI tenants.
I have lived in CA. Yes perspective matters and there is a lot of appropriate anger there. But we are much calmer on the East Coast about such things....
Now - let's talk about what should happen with supercharger fees. If >80% occupied, then going over 90% charge should incur $1 a minute fee. One warning per lifetime. If 100% occupied when you arrive and you go over 90%, then supercharging is disabled for 1 month in addition to $1 a minute fee. 2nd violation, disabled for 2 months.
(Note: I have never left my car at a supercharger. I also have never waited in line at a supercharger)
Going forward, the occupancy sensor needs to be better if we are charging people. The App should have better settings for notifications. I would like to see a setting that would alert me if I was truly about to be charged. So I sleep at the Plymouth Holiday Inn Express and it is empty. If there is a 2 AM rush, then notify me that I am starting to get charged. I then choose to sleep or pay a hefty price.
I have never been to Plymouth but outside of a holiday weekend, I will place a large bet that it isn't over 50% ever in the middle of the night - except other HI tenants.
I have lived in CA. Yes perspective matters and there is a lot of appropriate anger there. But we are much calmer on the East Coast about such things....
Now - let's talk about what should happen with supercharger fees. If >80% occupied, then going over 90% charge should incur $1 a minute fee. One warning per lifetime. If 100% occupied when you arrive and you go over 90%, then supercharging is disabled for 1 month in addition to $1 a minute fee. 2nd violation, disabled for 2 months.
(Note: I have never left my car at a supercharger. I also have never waited in line at a supercharger)
That doesn't seem fair as there are many parts of the country where people need to charge over 90% in order to reach the next Supercharger or their destination.
Many? Ok excuse the 5% of super rural superchargers. But in most situations, even a classic 60 can make it. You could also give a break for 60s in super rural locations.
How about start the fee schedule in CA only? Or you could just exclude the 5% of locations where there is an issue. But really those 5% are probably almost never 80% occupied.
Here in NC - most of the time you are less than 100 miles between superchargers. At 140 - you cover the entire eastern seaboard. 90% charge on a 60 can make that any time of year. Perhaps not at 80 mph in the winter but that is an edge case. I have a 70D and have never exceeded 80% on a supercharger. But I've also taken back roads at 55 mph to avoid charging.
How about start the fee schedule in CA only? Or you could just exclude the 5% of locations where there is an issue. But really those 5% are probably almost never 80% occupied.
Here in NC - most of the time you are less than 100 miles between superchargers. At 140 - you cover the entire eastern seaboard. 90% charge on a 60 can make that any time of year. Perhaps not at 80 mph in the winter but that is an edge case. I have a 70D and have never exceeded 80% on a supercharger. But I've also taken back roads at 55 mph to avoid charging.
Brass Guy
Active Member
Over 90% can be needed often in a classic 60; especially in the winter. Disabling for a month or two would cripple some drivers, most of whom still have unlimited supercharging.
Never, ever, EVER! We are not going to get into "I know better than you how much charge you should have, and you don't need that much." Seriously, plenty of people will line up to tell you where you can go with that idea. When charging is done, and someone is just taking up room not even using it, that is a whole different story that does require some form of consequence motivation.
Yes, many. Take a look out west or in Canada. There are lots of gaps in the western and central US that are larger than the entire state of North Carolina and many gaps where there are NO SUPERCHARGERS for hundreds or thousands of miles. Also remember that not all travel is done exclusively on routes with Superchargers. Just because you don't see the need to charge above 90% doesn't mean there aren't many other drivers who do need to charge to 90% or 100% to reach their destinations.
This also shows the tunnel vision of thinking that only the hops from one Supercharger to the next along the interstates are the only routes that matter. At any one of those points may be where someone is turning their route off the interstate into those smaller side roads, and that Supercharger is the last fast charging they will have for quite a long while, so it's good to stock up some versus the 1kW or 3kW charging they will have to do later.
DameDePiques
Member
I cannot wait to be able to do that !
Driving my model 3 in my teddy bear pyjamas (with the bear-eared hood) would be kind of extra-cool
Though not as cool as the guy who drove his Tesla in a Chewie costume...
d21mike
Active Member
Example: I am planning a camping trip over Thank Giving Weekend where I will be sleeping in the car for 2 days using the New Keep Climate ON. I plan to super charge to 100% at my last available super charger.
cpa
Active Member
I think the original poster's response that he had become sick and decided to sleep the night away at a friend's house while plugged in illustrates perfectly the fact that we just do not know for certain how much demand there will be for a Supercharger--even a remote or rural one--during the wee hours. He did not plan on becoming sick. He was faced with exigent circumstances and made his decision in his best interests to charge his car while trying to get some much needed sleep and try to reduce the symptoms of his illness. I would have done the very same thing!
I think we can all recall a time or two in our lives when we were driving during the early morning hours--perhaps by choice, perhaps not. It is not too much of a stretch to consider that there could be "perfect storms" when A has a family emergency, B and his friend are driving all night, C is returning from a long road trip, and D just got off the swing shift and is starting a road trip. They all converge at the 8-stall Supercharger Q within 5 minutes of each other around 2AM, and X and Z are sound asleep, plugged in overnight. Presto! 6/8 stalls are in use at 2AM, and some of the stalls are paired so two or three people are receiving reduced rates.
As an aside, a year ago I spent the night at the Best Western across the street from the Tejon Ranch Supercharger. I rose at 6, showered, dressed, and drove my car across the street to charge at 6:20 or so. I grabbed a coffee at Starbucks before returning to my room. As I ambled by about 20 minutes later, 5/6 stalls were in use!
I think we can all recall a time or two in our lives when we were driving during the early morning hours--perhaps by choice, perhaps not. It is not too much of a stretch to consider that there could be "perfect storms" when A has a family emergency, B and his friend are driving all night, C is returning from a long road trip, and D just got off the swing shift and is starting a road trip. They all converge at the 8-stall Supercharger Q within 5 minutes of each other around 2AM, and X and Z are sound asleep, plugged in overnight. Presto! 6/8 stalls are in use at 2AM, and some of the stalls are paired so two or three people are receiving reduced rates.
As an aside, a year ago I spent the night at the Best Western across the street from the Tejon Ranch Supercharger. I rose at 6, showered, dressed, and drove my car across the street to charge at 6:20 or so. I grabbed a coffee at Starbucks before returning to my room. As I ambled by about 20 minutes later, 5/6 stalls were in use!
FlyingCookie
Member
On the east coast, I’ve found a few cases where my choices are to either drive 45 minutes out of the way to find another supercharger, or eek my way up to 100% to get a 9% buffer to make it to where I’m going without adding an hour and a half to my trip. A policy like this would quickly result in Tesla having a hard time selling vehicles to people who travel a lot. (I average over 1200 miles/week. First time my supercharging got disabled over something like this, my Model S would be up for sell to the highest bidder)
As things mature, I think something like this but maybe not so extreme is a good policy.
There needs to be incentive for people to NOT use superchargers in a way that affects other people.
The last 90 to 100% charge takes so long you're basically getting 10% charge while costing someone else 50% charge.
I don't think it should be a 'violation' or ban from the network, simply something like.
.1/min once you hit 90% and fee increases a bit all the way to 100% so charging say at 99% costs you .25/min. prob not worth it for most.
These policies suck when they affect you (and in my case) but if we want electrification to be a thing, we have to think about this. New people shopping or considering Tesla will not be turned off because the supercharger network charges a few bucks extra if you charge to over 90%. They will be turned off if all the chargers start having waiting lines.
roblab
Active Member
Because I didn't feel it was necessary. There were NO other Teslas. And as a long time owner, I respect the chargers. There were fifteen empty spaces. That's why. And that lot right across the street is a long ways away, actually.
Just move your Tesla to the first Handicapped spot that you see and park there. What could possibly be wrong with that?
Sorry, David, I think the majority of Tesla owners disagree with you. Supercharge to 100% then unplug. That's fair.You know the idle fee program is kind of new. The occupancy counter is kind of new. I would consider this likely a kink in the system and $16 is no big deal.
Going forward, the occupancy sensor needs to be better if we are charging people. The App should have better settings for notifications. I would like to see a setting that would alert me if I was truly about to be charged. So I sleep at the Plymouth Holiday Inn Express and it is empty. If there is a 2 AM rush, then notify me that I am starting to get charged. I then choose to sleep or pay a hefty price.
I have never been to Plymouth but outside of a holiday weekend, I will place a large bet that it isn't over 50% ever in the middle of the night - except other HI tenants.
I have lived in CA. Yes perspective matters and there is a lot of appropriate anger there. But we are much calmer on the East Coast about such things....
Now - let's talk about what should happen with supercharger fees. If >80% occupied, then going over 90% charge should incur $1 a minute fee. One warning per lifetime. If 100% occupied when you arrive and you go over 90%, then supercharging is disabled for 1 month in addition to $1 a minute fee. 2nd violation, disabled for 2 months.
(Note: I have never left my car at a supercharger. I also have never waited in line at a supercharger)
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