yeah, i get that...but anyone who didn't buy FSD should be able to pay the $5k they agreed to as the "add later" price and have the hardware upgrade included in that cost as well...not $5k for the computer plus another $5k for the software.
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
BUY FSD TODAY!
- Thread starter Ezri10
- Start date
yeah, i get that...but anyone who didn't buy FSD should be able to pay the $5k they agreed to as the "add later" price and have the hardware upgrade included in that cost as well...not $5k for the computer plus another $5k for the software.
JeffK
Well-Known Member
cool, we're on the same page. sorry for the misunderstanding...I'm amazed by the number of people in other threads on this topic who seem to think they should be able to just throw that number out and charge whatever they want for FSD after the fact.
d21mike
Active Member
It has already been said that people who were promised the $4k (USD) after purchase would still get it for $4k even after they raised the after purchase price to $5k for new cars (grandfathered?). I think the same will be true for those that were promised a 5K upgrade after purchase will get that as well (grandfathered?). I believe some are saying now that the upgraded is no longer an option so not promised. All "new" orders after "say" Nov 1, 2018 will not have a promised price (not grandfathered?) because there is nothing promised on the order system. For those folks the price "could" be much higher like maybe 5K at purchase with a higher price after purchase. Would you agree?
When the $5K "later" price was on the Ordering page, there was a DATE associated with that price.
It implied that, that $5K price was only good until that date. But it wasn't clear. I think it was like September 31st or some where around there. Not sure if there was a date when the $4k "later" price was listed.
Regardless, I wouldn't assume those grandfathered deals will last forever.
A friend that didn't buy the FSD option is considering the buy it now ($5k for him) or pay more later dilemma.
Some folks mentioned that it shows as an option on their vehicle account (for those that didn't buy it).
Where exactly is it?
Is it already gone?
If someone does show it, would you mind sharing a screen shot. I can't show it because I bought it with the car.
Thanks.
Some folks mentioned that it shows as an option on their vehicle account (for those that didn't buy it).
Where exactly is it?
Is it already gone?
If someone does show it, would you mind sharing a screen shot. I can't show it because I bought it with the car.
Thanks.
Glamisduner
Active Member
After seeing the emulator easter egg lockup the car's computer and tell me the car was in park instead of drive, I think it will be a while before FSD is worth a damn. Meanwhile summon still fails to work on my car 80% of the time and Autopilot veers off the road when a line disappears...
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
But FSD has been for sale since 2016.
So, again, your argument, and the actual facts, don't match.
And you continue being wrong about it, as everyone other than you in the thread appears able to see.
The 3k pays for working FSD. Until they deliver that the 3k is a liability owed to a customer from revenue they're not legally allowed to recognize.
Tesla literally can not use that to pay for upgrading cars hardware without delivering working FSD due to accounting rules.
So the upgrade costs for those who prebought- hardware AND labor- comes directly out of Teslas pocket, not touching that 3k at all.
But even if it did even you agreed like 5 posts ago that means Tesla would have less net money than from the people who did NOT pre-pay, and whom they can actually charge for the HW3 labor and hardware.
So I remain baffled by what you imagine your point to be, since it seems to have no support in math or facts.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Then you are factually incorrect.
I'll add "again" because I know you've been corrected on this, with direct quotes from Tesla about what EAP includes, at least a time or two in the past.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
...you know those don't even run on the same computer, nor are they done by the same team, right?
It'd be like saying you don't trust autopilot because the USB music interface sucks (which, don't get me wrong, it really does)
JeffK
Well-Known Member
Pete Banon and Jim Keller were hired to design HW 3.0 in early 2016... FSD HW 2.x came out late 2016. Model 3 in 2017.
The only reason Tesla would make less money if people buy up front is because they aren't charging those people the penalty fee for purchasing FSD after the fact.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
None of which changes the fact Tesla stated when FSD went on sale in 2016 that the car came from the factory with all HW needed.
Regardless of which, it factually costs Tesla money to upgrade a car from 2.5 to 3.0.
Do you agree that it's a fact the part costs money and the labor costs money?
If so, go to step 2-
For people who pre-paid for FSD- that cost is entirely borne by Tesla. You get that, right?
Step 3-
For people who did not pre-pay, say for example someone buying a HW2.5 car next month when FSD isn't an option- Tesla can charge an explicit line item in the bill (or simply bump the post-purchase cost of it) by the full amount of that cost and Tesla bears none of that cost. You get that too, right?
Step 4-
Therefore, stopping allowing pre-payment of FSD on 2.5 HW cars saves Tesla money. You get that too, right?
If so.... what was your actual point again?
JeffK
Well-Known Member
It does if you consider the hardware needed to be the cameras and radar.
The money paid to upgrade was already paid.
Elon mentioned they've been planning this for 2-3 years
Q2 earnings call:
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Which is utterly nonsensical since none of those do anything without a computer running behind them.
Except, it wasn't.
If you remain unclear on this- watch Teslas financial reports in 6-9 months when they don't recognize any of the current FSD revenue as earned to cover those costs.
All that revenue remains unearned (thus a liability on the books) until they actually deliver working FSD to at least some degree.... (see also how they didn't recognize most EAP revenue on the books Q4 2016 because of not getting working SW out in a timely fashion)
The revenue is for the software feature actually sold- not HW upgrades that make the feature possible some day in the future.
"FSD" and "EAP" are just names that Tesla uses for two different options packages, one of which consists of features that can be used today, albeit in beta form, and one of which consists of vague promises of future performance.
If we're talking about where a particular feature fits it might be more useful to talk about the well-defined levels of autonomy. Driver assist; eyes off the road; mind off the road; and driver optional. I suspect that not even Musk himself knows for sure which options package any given feature will fit into.
At first I thought that Drive on NAV meant that the car would make turns on city streets to get you to your destination. Note that this could be a Level 2 feature (requires driver alertness), an L3 feature (eyes off the road), an L4 feature (mind off the road), or a level 5 feature (driver optional). Then it looked as though Drive on NAV meant that the car would get you to the right lane on the freeway to make your exit. Now it seems as though Drive on NAV means that the car will tell you what lane you need to be in, which Google Maps already does.
So I guess it's still up in the air what is meant by Drive on NAV.
JeffK
Well-Known Member
The revenue will be used for whatever it takes to deliver FSD. Hardware or software
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
No, it won't actually.
Because they legally can't do that. You didn't pay for HW upgrades that still don't add any function- so they can't use that revenue for that purpose on the books.
You paid for specific car functionality.
Same reason they couldn't recognize the revenue from EAP sales for "development costs" before actually releasing the software and delivering the functionality.
All of which ignores the simple questions I asked you that, regardless of accounting, demonstrate the "free" upgrade costs tesla money compared to the one where they don't pre-sell a free upgrade and instead charge post-purchase FOR the upgrade.
JeffK
Well-Known Member
I can't use the new software without the new hardware, so you're stuck. You need both for FSD.
Car + EAP + FSD = X
Car + EAP = Y
Y + FSD = X
X == X : Where FSD may be $3000 or up to $5000 for post purchase penalty.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
You forgot Z. The cost of the HW and labor to take a car from 2.5 to 3.
If you pre-purchased on a 2.x car, Z comes out of Teslas pocket. Meaning they now have $3000 MINUS Z to show for your FSD purchase.
if you don't pre-purchase on a 2.x car, Tesla can include Z in your post-purchase bill. Meaning they now have $3000 (or more) minus NOTHING to show for that purchase.
Which is the fundamental point you have manged to not understand for like 30 posts now.
JeffK
Well-Known Member
There is no Z. They are already planning to retrofit people who did not purchase FSD if they pay the additional $5000 when the hardware is available since they didn't pay the $3000 initially.
They only reason it's not free for them is because they have to pay $5000 whereas other people had already paid.
I should probably post for relevance:
Elon Musk on Twitter
Elon Musk on Twitter
Elon Musk on Twitter
Last edited:
Similar threads
- Question
