Cadillac ELR (Converj)

[dsm363]

The Roadster had a very very limited appeal. Take a Miata sized car, quadruple the price and make it all electric. That wasn't a surprise. The ELR should be more mainstream since it is supposed to seat 4 and has a gas backup for range.
The ELR doesn't have 100% EV credentials unless you never drive more than 35 miles or so a day then what's the point of the gas backup? It certainly is better on gas than 911 but the 911 is all about performance and the ELR certainly isn't.

 

[Gear]

I'd much rather have customers overspend on the ELR than get "the right deal" on a Porsche 911 since the ELR fouls up the planet significantly less (unless you've got an electric Porsche 911, of course).

Wouldn't you prefer even more that a large number of people pay the right price for an ELR then? They're charging way too much. It's as simple as that. Nobody who's considering a 911 is also considering an ELR. They may be considering a Roadster, however. You know, a car that does 0-60 in 3.6, less than half the time it takes an ELR to do the same.

 

[anticitizen13.7]

The Roadster had a very very limited appeal. Take a Miata sized car, quadruple the price and make it all electric. That wasn't a surprise. The ELR should be more mainstream since it is supposed to seat 4 and has a gas backup for range.
The ELR doesn't have 100% EV credentials unless you never drive more than 35 miles or so a day then what's the point of the gas backup? It certainly is better on gas than 911 but the 911 is all about performance and the ELR certainly isn't.

The ELR has neither the performance nor the functionality necessary for mainstream success. People bought the Roadster because it brought something new and unique to the table. The ELR is essentially a tweaked and dressed up Volt in a less convenient form factor (2-door coupe).

 

[Blastphemy]

You've obviously never driven the ELR, nor looked at the significant feature additions and equipment upgrades from the Volt. Not to mention the serious styling improvements.

 

[qwk]

You've obviously never driven the ELR, nor looked at the significant feature additions and equipment upgrades from the Volt. Not to mention the serious styling improvements.

Everything is relative. The ELR drive experience is garbage compared to the Model S, but is awesome compared to a Yugo. The problem is, the Yugo cost a few thousand dollars, and the ELR/Model S pricing is very close to the same.

 

[Blastphemy]

You've obviously also never driven the ELR based on your vacuous statement. There's more to refined driving than just getting to the next stoplight 3 seconds faster than the car next you. For example, in my ELR, I almost never touch the accelerator or brakes because the car drives itself with the full-range Adaptive Cruise Control that the Model S doesn't have at any price.

 

[dsm363]

You've obviously also never driven the ELR based on your vacuous statement. There's more to refined driving than just getting to the next stoplight 3 seconds faster than the car next you. For example, in my ELR, I almost never touch the accelerator or brakes because the car drives itself with the full-range Adaptive Cruise Control that the Model S doesn't have at any price.

That's true but that doesn't take away from the fact that the ELR is priced, designed and marketed to a very narrow market segment. You keep defending the car on how nice it is. I don't think many here question how nice the interior is or the features it has. Just that for what it provides over the Volt, they are charging too much. Even if you don't agree you have to admit the mere fact the Volt exists will lead many people to compare them. If the Volt didn't exist then maybe the ELR could stand on its own even at its current price. If they were truly interested in selling this car they'd drop the price down at least $10,000 or more. The Model S is also in a narrow market segment due to price and maybe range but is quicker, safer and seats more with more luggage capacity. Also, if you can have the refined driving style you seek (the Model S has that too), not use gas, beat your competitors by over 3 seconds to 60 and have 8 times the EV range why would that not be a good thing as well? The big advantage the ELR has is ACC I guess, comes from an established automaker, and has a gas backup if you need that.

Once the Model S adds adaptive cruise control and a few of the other missing features many of your arguments won't really apply anymore. You may not feel being beat by 3 seconds to 60 for roughly the same price isn't important but some don't see ACC as being important either. I've never had a car with ACC and can't see why you'd need to rely on that. It's fine if people want it and Tesla will add it at some point.

- - - Updated - - -

Much like the Model S has no competition in the 100% EV premium/long range EV segment at the moment, the ELR has no competition in the luxury PHEV market. People will want them for different reasons but will still likely compare the two. They both have a plug and have some level of EV only driving range. If that isn't important to the buyer then I'm not sure why they'd be looking at the ELR to begin with.

 

[rolosrevenge]

You've obviously also never driven the ELR based on your vacuous statement. There's more to refined driving than just getting to the next stoplight 3 seconds faster than the car next you. For example, in my ELR, I almost never touch the accelerator or brakes because the car drives itself with the full-range Adaptive Cruise Control that the Model S doesn't have at any price.

That sounds absolutely horrible, like a taxi. No thank you. I like to actually drive my cars.

 

[qwk]

You've obviously also never driven the ELR based on your vacuous statement. There's more to refined driving than just getting to the next stoplight 3 seconds faster than the car next you. For example, in my ELR, I almost never touch the accelerator or brakes because the car drives itself with the full-range Adaptive Cruise Control that the Model S doesn't have at any price.

I have driven the Volt. That was enough of that. Considering that the ELR has the exact drivetrain, it's close enough for me.
Adaptive cruise is cool, but to most people isn't a deal breaker. Apparently performance is, because the ELR is selling like the Cimmarron.

 

[Blastphemy]

...the mere fact the Volt exists will lead many people to compare them. If the Volt didn't exist then maybe the ELR could stand on its own even at its current price.

Cadillac should have released the ELR first, for sure. Every comparison that critics currently make would have been moot because there truly wouldn't have been anything to compare the ELR to. (And then a $45k Volt wouldn't have been such a shock to people when it was revealed by Chevrolet.) If the ELR had come first, I suspect GM could have priced it a $85k and been successful due to its uniqueness and out-of-this-world styling.

...if you can have the refined driving style you seek (the Model S has that too), not use gas, beat your competitors by over 3 seconds to 60 and have 8 times the EV range why would that not be a good thing as well?

The ELR's existence does not impugn the existence of the Model S. I can't figure out why people like qwk and others take such great offense that Cadillac even offers the ELR. I'm a Model X reservation holder (5,069), and will be thrilled beyond words to own both an ELR and a Model X (assuming Tesla ever gets around to releasing it).

After all the critical bashing, I bet if GM had it to do all over again and still wanted to charge $76-84k for the ELR, they'd improve the acceleration to 6.5 seconds, add a Sport+ Mode to have the 1.4L engine add power to the acceleration without having to deplete the battery first, add cooled front seats, and include a head-up display like the XTS/ATS... even if that meant a decrease in range to 30 miles per charge. Cadillac doesn't even advertise the ELR as a PHEV, so they obviously don't care about the range, so why didn't they improve the one statistic that everyone bitches about (acceleration)? Just dumb. And I wouldn't be surprised if, in hindsight, GM wishes it had aired a different ELR ad during the Olympics!

That sounds absolutely horrible, like a taxi. No thank you. I like to actually drive my cars.

The car gives you a choice - one of the hallmarks of luxury. I can choose to drive with or without ACC. I can choose to brake with regen paddle shifters, automatically by putting the car in "L", or with the brakes. I can set my seat memory to tie with my keyfob. I can use electricity or use gas. Choices are important when dealing with luxury cars.

I have driven the Volt. That was enough of that. Considering that the ELR has the exact drivetrain, it's close enough for me.

Yeah, that's what I thought. Lots of opinions based on nothing but ignorance of the subject about which you're complaining. You must be a politician...

 

[Doug_G]

I've driven the ELR. The ride and handling were both excellent. The drive train was anemic.

 

[dsm363]

I totally agree with you. If GM had been smart (a lot to ask) then the ELR coming out first would have been better. It wouldn't have (and likely still won't) sell many of them but that isn't the point. The point is to refine the technology and increase EV range. Gen II could have been the Volt and ELR and the $45,000 Volt price would be seen as a bargain in comparison.

Why the ELR exists if GM doesn't push the fact that it has a large battery and a plug is odd to me. That has to be its #1 selling point. Cadillac has many nice cars with excellent performance characteristics so if carrying around hundreds of pounds of batteries doesn't help performance and if EV range isn't a selling point to GM, what's the point of the car in their mind? Drop the battery pack, lighten the car and get a performance oriented/sporty luxury sedan with good gas milage. Something like the i3 with it's ultra light construction but better looking and with only a gas engine.

 

[qwk]

Yeah, that's what I thought. Lots of opinions based on nothing but ignorance of the subject about which you're complaining. You must be a politician...

Ignorance? I don't think so. Are you telling me that the ELR has a different drivetrain than the Volt? The drivetrain is what makes a car, that is the entire reason people use cars. Like I said before, bells and whistles are cool, but that's where it ends.

If the Model S had the Voltec drivetrain, it would simply be a POS, and Tesla would have joined Fisker long ago.

PS, don't get mad because someone tells it like it is.

 

[Doug_G]

The ELR has the same drivetrain as the Volt, although I was told that the firmware has been reprogrammed to give it a little more horsepower. However since the car is heavier you don't actually get more performance.

 

[Blastphemy]

I totally agree with you. If GM had been smart (a lot to ask) then the ELR coming out first would have been better. It wouldn't have (and likely still won't) sell many of them but that isn't the point. The point is to refine the technology and increase EV range. Gen II could have been the Volt and ELR and the $45,000 Volt price would be seen as a bargain in comparison.

Why the ELR exists if GM doesn't push the fact that it has a large battery and a plug is odd to me. That has to be its #1 selling point. Cadillac has many nice cars with excellent performance characteristics so if carrying around hundreds of pounds of batteries doesn't help performance and EV range isn't a selling point in GM's mind, what's the point of the car in their mind? Drop the battery pack, lighten the car and get a performance oriented/sporty luxury sedan with good gas milage. Something like the i3 with it's ultra light construction but better looking and with only a gas engine.

I don't think Cadillac has any idea what they're doing with the ELR. It appears to have been built and marketed by committee. The fact that it's as good as it is could be considered shocking! The only thing GM is truly doing right is its lease program that effectively gives lessors a $79k ELR for the price of a $61k Lexus. When I argue in favor of my ELR, I'm arguing in favor of my figurative $61k ELR, not my $79k MSRP ELR.

 

[PRJIM]

$80,000 FWD car? Has to be a record?

 

[Blastphemy]

The ELR has the same drivetrain as the Volt, although I was told that the firmware has been reprogrammed to give it a little more horsepower. However since the car is heavier you don't actually get more performance.

I think you're referring to this: Charged EVs | The most interesting part of the 2014 Cadillac ELR is the software

$80,000 FWD car? Has to be a record?

I think the ELR is also the slowest to accelerate $80k car

I can't think of another $80k car (but in my case, $61k equivalent leased as noted previously) that accelerates 0-60 in 8.8 seconds or slower.

 

[qwk]

I don't think Cadillac has any idea what they're doing with the ELR.

GM doesn't have any idea what they're doing, otherwise they wouldn't have needed billions in taxpayer money. Absolutely nothing has changed with that company(other than new faces), since the Bankruptcy. If we have more rough economic times, they will be the first with their hand out again.

 

[dsm363]

2014 Cadillac ELR Software Gives Hints Of Future Voltec Uses

It sounds like the hardware and layout of the Volt and ELR drivetrain are identical. It's the software for the control systems that is upgraded. That's something that they speculate they could bring to current Volt customers but will likely be done in future Volt models. The ELR does "third harmonic injection". Ok. If the performance or EV range isn't better than the Volt I'm seriously asking what these control system upgrades bring to the table over the Volt then for the additional money.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't think Cadillac has any idea what they're doing with the ELR. It appears to have been built and marketed by committee. The fact that it's as good as it is could be considered shocking! The only thing GM is truly doing right is its lease program that effectively gives lessors a $79k ELR for the price of a $61k Lexus. When I argue in favor of my ELR, I'm arguing in favor of my figurative $61k ELR, not my $79k MSRP ELR.

That makes sense for your situation but not everyone leases cars so the MSRP does need to be considered for others. I'm glad the ELR exists and that the people who bought it like it, that's all that really matters. Also appreciate hearing you explain why you like it and for engaging in a productive dialog with everyone.

- - - Updated - - -

I think you're referring to this: Charged EVs | The most interesting part of the 2014 Cadillac ELR is the software

So are you saying the drivetrains are different other than software?

 

[Doug_G]

No, I was just relaying what the salesman told me. My impressions of the car are from a test drive, not reading about it.