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Cadillac ELR (Converj)

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I saw an ELR for the first time "in the wild" in a Costco parking lot last weekend:

CadillacELRatCostco.jpg


I think it's not bad looking. My teenage son doesn't care for it at all.

I couldn't help but think that if I had bought an ELR, I would keep thinking that everyone around me that knows anything about the car would think I'm a chump for overpaying for a Volt. Even if I bought it at a ridiculous discount, like for $40k. It would be like wearing a billboard that says, "I'm an idiot!"
 
I believe there is at least one ELR owner who has posted here who may take offense. While I wouldn't buy the car, and thnk it is way overpriced, I can see why it might appeal to some people.

Yeah, I understand that and I don't mean to offend necessarily. However, I can't help but feel that the car is a rip off (and you think it is too), and therefore if I were offered an extremely good price on an ELR, it would be a battle for me. Owning something very pricey, but generally thought of as worth the money is one thing, but owning something that I thought was a rip off to start with... that would be much harder.

Did you notice the Model S in the background of the photo you posted? ;-)

Yeah, that's the service loaner that I'm driving while my S is in the shop.
 
I believe there is at least one ELR owner who has posted here who may take offense. While I wouldn't buy the car, and thnk it is way overpriced, I can see why it might appeal to some people.

Because Cadillac has sold fewer than 100 units of this car per month since it was released, there's a mini fire sale going on, now. I've seen the $80k ELR I leased at $798/mo with $4k down @ 10k miles annually now going for as little as $580/mo with $2k down @ 15k miles (real word; not the bait-and-switch $499/mo advertised by some dealerships) due to incentives as high as $15k off MSRP.

I take a lot less offense at people saying the ELR is overpriced since Cadillac apparently believes them and has no faith in its own product. Has anyone ever heard of another vehicle getting a 20-25% effective price drop barely six months after it was introduced?

Had I to do it all over again, I still would have leased my ELR since it's the best electric vehicle I've ever driven (Model S included - sorry!), but I would have waited 'til July to do it. That would have saved me almost $18k over four years. So much for being an early adopter!

:mad:

I couldn't help but think that if I had bought an ELR, I would keep thinking that everyone around me that knows anything about the car would think I'm a chump for overpaying for a Volt. Even if I bought it at a ridiculous discount, like for $40k. It would be like wearing a billboard that says, "I'm an idiot!"
No one who asks me about my ELR ever thinks I overpaid for a Volt, because it's quite obvious the ELR is not a Volt. Only people who haven't driven one or looked at the specs think the ELR is a Volt. Just because the acceleration is the same doesn't make it the same vehicle, but people have a hard time getting past that. And Cadillac should have known that! Why GM didn't push hard to give the ELR a bit more oomph is beyond me, but Cadillac dug its own grave by overlooking that one key spec... oh, well.

I usually get one of three reactions when people see me with my ELR:

(1) Mostly from women: "Wow! That's the best looking car I've ever seen! That must be really expensive! Are you single?"

(2) Mostly from Volt owners: "Wow! I didn't realize how much better this car is in person! I can see why it's double the price of the Volt."

(3) Mostly from people who saw Cadillac's 'Poolside' ad: "Nice car, but you must be an a$$ hole. Enjoy your overpriced toy, idiot."

Only Volt owners ever realize my ELR is electric, and I've been confused with a CTS Coupe more than once. The valets here in California still tend to park me out in front for everyone to see, so that makes me feel better! (The Model S cars used to always be parked out front, but now there are so many of them that I haven't seen a valet give one special treatment for quite some time.)
 
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It still confuses me how the ELR is a better electric vehicle than the Model S but ok. A better electric vehicle would have more than a 35 mile electric range. Sorry.
The ELR has a very nice interior for two people and limited seating for two more and less storage space. If you need a gas backup maybe but have a hard time believing it handles better or drives better than the P85+ (I realize the P85+ is more expensive but you said ELR was better). I know you like your car but I'd hardly call it a better 'electric' vehicle.
 
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It still confuses me how the ELR is a better electric vehicle than the Model S but ok. A better electric vehicle would have more than a 35 mile electric range. Sorry.
The ELR has a very nice interior for two people and limited seating for two more and less storage space. If you need a gas backup maybe but have a hard time believing it handles better or drives better than the P85+ (I realize the P85+ is more expensive but you said ELR was better). I know you like your car but I'd hardly call it a better 'electric' vehicle.

I should have said the best electric vehicle for me. I bought the ELR over the Model S for several reasons:

First, it has features that I use frequently which aren't available on the Model S (like Adaptive Cruise Control and Regen Paddles), but I realize not every potential Tesla customer is going to care about such things.

Second, I like the futuristic styling of the ELR much more than the Ford/Audi/Jaguar styling of the Model S. Also, I find the interior of the Model S rather bland and unrefined, not to mention ergonomically challenging. (I sure hope the Model X integrates that giant 17-inch iPad better than in the beta model, because it looks even more ridiculous in that prototype than in the production Model S.) I always preferred the original integration of the touch screen in the Model S prototype, and was disappointed to see it turn into nothing more than a large rectangle (and also to see the steering wheel lose its bottom hand grip).

Third, I drive long distances from time to time, and would much rather spend 4 minutes at a gas station (which I can find anywhere) than 30-90 minutes at a supercharger (which are far and few between, if available at all in some regions). Also, on a full charge and full tank of gas, I can drive from Los Angeles to Las Vegas comfortably at full speed without stopping, which isn't possible in the Model S.

Fourth, my normal daily commute outside of long trips is 36 miles, so the only time I ever use gas is on the rare long distance business trip or our annual Vegas vacation.

Fifth, the ELR was much less expensive than a similarly-configured* Model S 85 kWh which was the one I considered (since 60 kWh wouldn't cut it)... it was $96,770 vs. $78,876.85 excluding anticipated tax credits/rebates but including dealership incentives. (* there's obviously some apples-to-oranges problems with comparing the two cars, but you get the idea.)

Sixth, I don't need to accelerate 0-60 in 5.4 seconds or less, as fun as it might be to beat other drivers to the next stop light over and over again. The ELR is good enough at 8.8 seconds (or 7.8 with the engine running), even if the ELR is the slowest car with an MSRP above $75k.

Seventh, I don't need more than a 2+2 coupe since the only people who would ever ride in my back seat are friends shorter than 5'6" and children. My back seat passengers are always comfortable and I never hear any complaints.

Eighth, at least here in Los Angeles, everyone and his brother now seems to own a Model S, so it's not so special anymore (which is a good thing for Tesla).

Ninth, I have a reservation for a Model X (to replace our Rav4 EV), so my wife and I will be getting our Tesla on next year. As such, I don't feel deprived!
 
Just as there's no single ICE vehicle that works for everybody, there will never be a single plug-in vehicle that works for everybody. Blastphemy, I really appreciate your patient and well-reasoned support for the ELR niche. It's not for me (especially not at the original price), but I have no problem seeing how it's for you and I'm glad you have a car you like. If we couldn't have purchased a Model S for some reason (too big, too expensive, it our only car in an area without Superchargers, whatever) my wife would be driving a Volt.

In general, overpricing halo cars adds to the mystique (and little harm as high sales figures of the halo model are not the goal) and I figured the ELR would be expensive. GM overdid it, but of course they can always add incentives as they are doing now, so you can make the argument that shooting too high was better than too low (though of course just right would have been best). Too bad they didn't do the ELR before the Volt - value perceptions would have been different - but I think they were too fixated on trying to show up the Prius.
 
Isn't this just another gasoline hybrid with a tiny battery and an exhaust pipe? Why do they keep advertising this thing as an Electric Car? :confused:

This has been hashed out on here a thousand times. It's like Taco Bell saying their burrito is made with "Real Beef", when it's made with pure crap fillers. It's all marketing lies. Most companies get away with it for a long time.
 
Isn't this just another gasoline hybrid with a tiny battery and an exhaust pipe? Why do they keep advertising this thing as an Electric Car? :confused:

No, the ELR is a high-end electric luxury car with a gas engine "range extender" backup. For anyone who drives fewer than 35-40 mile per day (~75% of commuters), the gas is never used. Only ignorant people (like qwk) don't understand that. He thinks because the Model S can beat the ELR to the next stoplight that the plethora of luxury and refined design features the Model S is missing don't matter. He's welcome to his opinion, and if he wants to pay $20-40k more to get electric drive all the time instead of most of the time, he's welcome to waste his money. Me? I'll wait for the more refined and technologically advanced Model X before I overspend just for 100% electric drive.
 
No, the ELR is a high-end electric luxury car with a gas engine "range extender" backup. For anyone who drives fewer than 35-40 mile per day (~75% of commuters), the gas is never used. Only ignorant people (like qwk) don't understand that. He thinks because the Model S can beat the ELR to the next stoplight that the plethora of luxury and refined design features the Model S is missing don't matter. He's welcome to his opinion, and if he wants to pay $20-40k more to get electric drive all the time instead of most of the time, he's welcome to waste his money. Me? I'll wait for the more refined and technologically advanced Model X before I overspend just for 100% electric drive.
I don't see how calling the car what it is as being ignorant. Whether the ICE is used or not, has little bearing on what the car actually is.
 
No, the ELR is a high-end electric luxury car with a gas engine "range extender" backup. For anyone who drives fewer than 35-40 mile per day (~75% of commuters), the gas is never used.

From the Wikipedia article on the Voltec drivetrain used in the Volt and the ELR

The general layout of the initial production platform is considered by some to be a plug-in series hybrid design since mechanical power initially drives the generator, which in turn charges the battery pack. Power is then drained from the batteries to run the electrical motors which move the vehicle. The internal combustion engine can run at a constant speed for both optimal efficiency and mechanical simplicity (i.e., there is no need for a multi-valve, multi- or variable-cam design). The Voltec, like the Prius, uses a planetary gearset to couple power from two sources to the wheels. Unlike the Prius, the Voltec only rarely drives the wheels with mechanical assist from the engine.[1][2][9] The Voltec could therefore be considered a power-split hybrid.

I would therefore counter your statement by saying only ignorant people make claims about how things work without doing any research.
 
No, the ELR is a high-end electric luxury car with a gas engine "range extender" backup. For anyone who drives fewer than 35-40 mile per day (~75% of commuters), the gas is never used. Only ignorant people (like qwk) don't understand that. He thinks because the Model S can beat the ELR to the next stoplight that the plethora of luxury and refined design features the Model S is missing don't matter. He's welcome to his opinion, and if he wants to pay $20-40k more to get electric drive all the time instead of most of the time, he's welcome to waste his money. Me? I'll wait for the more refined and technologically advanced Model X before I overspend just for 100% electric drive.

Well most of the time still means you are lugging around gas and a gas engine that you rarely if ever use. If you almost never use it, why have it? If you truly stick within the 40 miles of EV mode 99% of the time then a 100 mile EV would work too and you rent a car the rest of the time. Driving electric a big majority of the time has to be one of the reasons you got the ELR, right? Some of us are perfectly fine with 5-8 times the EV range of the ELR, ditching the ICE with the issues it has, adding a 5th seat and doing away with the battery tunnel down the middle of the car too. You aren't willing to put up with the drawbacks of an BEV at this time and that is great and the right decision for you. That doesn't make those of us who chose what many professional reviewers and drivers would say is a better overall car (and more exciting to drive no matter how you describe 8 second 0-60 time) stupid.

So you're saying those of us who 250 mile EVs that never have any issues with range wasted our money? i could say the same about getting the ELR. Buy a Volt then go on 3 nice $12,000 vacations and live it up. Your 'more technologically advanced' argument won't hold water for much longer as Tesla will add those features as well. GM has already developed those systems for other cars so of course they included them. Tesla hadn't so they needed to ship the car. As ChadS said, there is no one right car for everyone. I'm glad the most luxurious PHEV works for you and about 60 other people a month but for $10,000 more I'd rather have 5 times the EV range in a bigger, safer car with a 17" touch screen (I call that technically advanced) with software updates delivered over the air. The ELR can do that as well or does it go to the dealership for updates?

All of your arguments are ICE vs EV arguments. If 'unlimited' range and 4 min refueling are prime concerns for you then any ICE would work as well. Why did you 'waste' your money putting a 16kWh batter in there that takes away the middle rear seat then?
 
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I should have said the best electric vehicle for me. I bought the ELR over the Model S for several reasons:

First, it has features that I use frequently which aren't available on the Model S (like Adaptive Cruise Control and Regen Paddles), but I realize not every potential Tesla customer is going to care about such things.

Second, I like the futuristic styling of the ELR much more than the Ford/Audi/Jaguar styling of the Model S. Also, I find the interior of the Model S rather bland and unrefined, not to mention ergonomically challenging. (I sure hope the Model X integrates that giant 17-inch iPad better than in the beta model, because it looks even more ridiculous in that prototype than in the production Model S.) I always preferred the original integration of the touch screen in the Model S prototype, and was disappointed to see it turn into nothing more than a large rectangle (and also to see the steering wheel lose its bottom hand grip).

Third, I drive long distances from time to time, and would much rather spend 4 minutes at a gas station (which I can find anywhere) than 30-90 minutes at a supercharger (which are far and few between, if available at all in some regions). Also, on a full charge and full tank of gas, I can drive from Los Angeles to Las Vegas comfortably at full speed without stopping, which isn't possible in the Model S.

Fourth, my normal daily commute outside of long trips is 36 miles, so the only time I ever use gas is on the rare long distance business trip or our annual Vegas vacation.

Fifth, the ELR was much less expensive than a similarly-configured* Model S 85 kWh which was the one I considered (since 60 kWh wouldn't cut it)... it was $96,770 vs. $78,876.85 excluding anticipated tax credits/rebates but including dealership incentives. (* there's obviously some apples-to-oranges problems with comparing the two cars, but you get the idea.)

Sixth, I don't need to accelerate 0-60 in 5.4 seconds or less, as fun as it might be to beat other drivers to the next stop light over and over again. The ELR is good enough at 8.8 seconds (or 7.8 with the engine running), even if the ELR is the slowest car with an MSRP above $75k.

Seventh, I don't need more than a 2+2 coupe since the only people who would ever ride in my back seat are friends shorter than 5'6" and children. My back seat passengers are always comfortable and I never hear any complaints.

Eighth, at least here in Los Angeles, everyone and his brother now seems to own a Model S, so it's not so special anymore (which is a good thing for Tesla).

Ninth, I have a reservation for a Model X (to replace our Rav4 EV), so my wife and I will be getting our Tesla on next year. As such, I don't feel deprived!


I can only assume all of your posts are intended to be humorous like the one a few posts back where women automatically ask you if you are single when they see your car. Who only has friends that are 5'6" or less? Do you just hate average sized or above people or do you ask people who friend request you on Facebook how tall they are before you accept their request? Are you a lifetime member of the lollipop guild? The third and fourth "points" seem to contradict each other to some extent and its pretty convenient that your daily commute is almost exactly what the ELR is rated to run in electric mode. It's like the car was designed for your specific commute! While I do find some room for improvement with the interior on the Tesla (mostly in that more storage cubbies would be preferred) the ELR is not ergonomically it's equal, much less superior. A few independent reviews have mentioned as much and it's also a much more claustrophobic experience, especially in the rear seat area. 60 kWh would not cut it even though your commute is 36 miles per day except for the "rare long distance business trip" so I am guessing the 60 was too slow since range isn't the reason. That sort of shoots a hole in point number six. If a business trip is so rare why couldnt you rent a car for such trips? It's a business trip so the cost of the rental would be deductible on your taxes and you would doing a favor to the planet for the rest of the year.
 
No, the ELR is a high-end electric luxury car with a gas engine "range extender" backup. For anyone who drives fewer than 35-40 mile per day (~75% of commuters), the gas is never used.

Yes it is. Unless they eliminated the engine maintenance modes and ERDTT.

Only ignorant people (like qwk) don't understand that.

Some people don't even understand how their own car works.