MrIanB
Member
Looks like a partial firesale is already in effect, you can see some listed in cars.com for 65K.
ian b
ian b
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Cadillac ELR (Converj)
- Thread starter Takumi
- Start date
ElectricLove
Member
I have a Volt (and Roadster) and have found the volt to be a fantastic car. I wish GM would have marketed it better rather than bringing out the ELR and wish they made the same performance package for the volt as the ELR, it's a fun car to drive but knowing that the same drivetrain can simply be programmed for increased power and it isn't an option is disheartening.
One of the best things about the volt from an engineering standpoint is their care for the batteries, liquid cooled and only 10.7kwh of the 16.5kwh pack is used, never above 90%, never below 25%... I wish the Roadster gave its range using those metrics and that all EV manufacturers were more aware of the need for larger buffers on battery access. Of course that presents a larger marketing challenge and higher cost (to attain same miles per charge). So far it seems the Tesla batteries will last. It I'd bet those Volt batteries last longer, probably a good bit longer. I'd imagine at 100k on my roadster it will start going downhill but my volt will likely perform exactly the same as it does now.
i know that was more about the volt then ELR but since they are basically the same car I figured I'd share. I do think the ELR is an awesome car but agree with everyone that it needed to be much faster to warrant its pricetag, and I would imagine it won't take much to make it faster (just programming, the motor can take it) so I really hope they fix that problem and quickly! You can buy 2 volts or 1 ELR! It should have been about 10-15k premium...
One of the best things about the volt from an engineering standpoint is their care for the batteries, liquid cooled and only 10.7kwh of the 16.5kwh pack is used, never above 90%, never below 25%... I wish the Roadster gave its range using those metrics and that all EV manufacturers were more aware of the need for larger buffers on battery access. Of course that presents a larger marketing challenge and higher cost (to attain same miles per charge). So far it seems the Tesla batteries will last. It I'd bet those Volt batteries last longer, probably a good bit longer. I'd imagine at 100k on my roadster it will start going downhill but my volt will likely perform exactly the same as it does now.
i know that was more about the volt then ELR but since they are basically the same car I figured I'd share. I do think the ELR is an awesome car but agree with everyone that it needed to be much faster to warrant its pricetag, and I would imagine it won't take much to make it faster (just programming, the motor can take it) so I really hope they fix that problem and quickly! You can buy 2 volts or 1 ELR! It should have been about 10-15k premium...
The 2011-2013 Volt charges the battery to 87% and turns on the gas engine at 22%. Apparently the 2014 Volt now waits until 18% before turning on the engine (the ELR probably does the same).
My 2011 Volt now has 55,000 EV miles on it (85,000 total) after 3.5 years. It seems to have lost no more than 5% of its usable range and battery capacity.
My 2011 Volt now has 55,000 EV miles on it (85,000 total) after 3.5 years. It seems to have lost no more than 5% of its usable range and battery capacity.
MrIanB
Member
Wasn't it in June when they started the $499 lease offer? If so, that tells you the ELRs problem with sales correlates to price. Pricing should be even better by this December.
ian B
Seattle
Member
They must have expected more sales than that. About 400. Cut the price, increase the range, watch sales increase.
RobStark
Well-Known Member
If you cut the price of 99% of the products on the market by ~25% you'd see much better sales.
Things like 5 cent bubble gum and the Bugatti Veyron Vitesse WRC being the exception.
Of course. But the point was it's perceived value. People are buying the Model S at average price of $15,000 over the ELE but the value is there. People don't see it in the ELR so either improve its value or cut price.
Blastphemy
Member
Cost comparison: Porsche Panamera S-E Hybrid vs. Cadillac ELR
I decided to go check out a Porsche Panamera S-E Plug-in Hybrid yesterday at my local dealership. It's a very nice car, despite having a nondescript exterior shape. What really surprised me, though, was the price difference between the Porsche Panamera S-E Hybrid and the Cadillac ELR.
Here are some general comparisons:
• ELR has a trunk; Panamera S-E Hybrid has a hatchback
• ELR has 2 doors; Panamera S-E Hybrid has 4 doors
• ELR sits 2+2; Panamera S-E Hybrid also sits 2+2, but with easier access due to 4 doors and hatchback
• ELR gets ~37 EV miles; Panamera S-E Hybrid gets ~20 EV miles
• ELR accelerates 0-60 in 9 seconds; Panamera S-E Hybrid accelerates 0-60 in 5.2 seconds
• ELR has front-wheel drive; Panamera S-E Hybrid has rear-wheel drive
• ELR has 20-inch wheels standard; Panamera S-E Hybrid has 18-inch wheels standard
• ELR has regen paddles standard; Panamera S-E Hybrid does not offer regen paddles
• ELR base model comes standard with Heated Seats, Reverse Camera, Adjustable Memory Seats, Noise Insulated Glass, all-LED lighting, Heated Steering Wheel, Lane Departure Warning, Park Assist Sonar, Alcantara Headliner, Voice Commands, and a BOSE 14-Speaker Sound System with AudioPilot; Panamera S-E Hybrid does not include any of those features in its base model, but they're available as upgrades
• ELR can be upgraded with Adaptive Cruise Control, Automatic Front Collision Preparation and Warning, Blind-Zone Alert, Rear Cross-Traffic Alert, 20-way seat adjustments, and Red exterior color; Panamera S-E Hybrid offers most of those upgrades too, but also has a plethora of other upgrades and customizations available that the ELR doesn't, including ventilated front & rear seats
• The base model ELR is $75,995. The base model Panamera S-E Hybrid is $99,995
So the Panamera S-E Hybrid smokes the ELR on acceleration, rear-wheel drive, rear seat access, hatchback access, and the sheer number of available upgrades. The ELR smokes the Panamera S-E Hybrid on EV range, regen paddles, the number of luxury features available on the standard base model, and exterior appearance.
If I go to Porche's website and add in all the upgrades that come standard with the ELR, the price becomes approximately $119,000. (Note that a fully-loaded Panamera S-E Hybrid is close to $180,000!)
So when one sees that the Panamera S-E Hybrid costs $119k vs. the ELR's $76k, the question is whether that $43k difference in price is worth 0-60 in 5.2 seconds, rear-wheel drive, a hatchback, easier rear seat access, less EV range, a less interesting exterior design, and the Porsche crest on the vehicle.
Does seeing how the Panamera S-E Hybrid compares in price change your mind about whether the ELR is overpriced? IMHO, if people are complaining about the ELR being overpriced, they should be having an apoplectic fit when discussing the Porsche's total cost!
If I was driving around in a $119k Panamera S-E Hybrid today and saw an ELR on the road, then learned it was $42k less, I would be beside myself with annoyance for having made the wrong decision. And most likely I would see the ELR gleefully zoom past me in the carpool lane while I was sitting in California traffic, unable to ever make use of my Porsche's acceleration or be able to access the HOV lane by myself.
I decided to go check out a Porsche Panamera S-E Plug-in Hybrid yesterday at my local dealership. It's a very nice car, despite having a nondescript exterior shape. What really surprised me, though, was the price difference between the Porsche Panamera S-E Hybrid and the Cadillac ELR.
Here are some general comparisons:
• ELR has a trunk; Panamera S-E Hybrid has a hatchback
• ELR has 2 doors; Panamera S-E Hybrid has 4 doors
• ELR sits 2+2; Panamera S-E Hybrid also sits 2+2, but with easier access due to 4 doors and hatchback
• ELR gets ~37 EV miles; Panamera S-E Hybrid gets ~20 EV miles
• ELR accelerates 0-60 in 9 seconds; Panamera S-E Hybrid accelerates 0-60 in 5.2 seconds
• ELR has front-wheel drive; Panamera S-E Hybrid has rear-wheel drive
• ELR has 20-inch wheels standard; Panamera S-E Hybrid has 18-inch wheels standard
• ELR has regen paddles standard; Panamera S-E Hybrid does not offer regen paddles
• ELR base model comes standard with Heated Seats, Reverse Camera, Adjustable Memory Seats, Noise Insulated Glass, all-LED lighting, Heated Steering Wheel, Lane Departure Warning, Park Assist Sonar, Alcantara Headliner, Voice Commands, and a BOSE 14-Speaker Sound System with AudioPilot; Panamera S-E Hybrid does not include any of those features in its base model, but they're available as upgrades
• ELR can be upgraded with Adaptive Cruise Control, Automatic Front Collision Preparation and Warning, Blind-Zone Alert, Rear Cross-Traffic Alert, 20-way seat adjustments, and Red exterior color; Panamera S-E Hybrid offers most of those upgrades too, but also has a plethora of other upgrades and customizations available that the ELR doesn't, including ventilated front & rear seats
• The base model ELR is $75,995. The base model Panamera S-E Hybrid is $99,995
So the Panamera S-E Hybrid smokes the ELR on acceleration, rear-wheel drive, rear seat access, hatchback access, and the sheer number of available upgrades. The ELR smokes the Panamera S-E Hybrid on EV range, regen paddles, the number of luxury features available on the standard base model, and exterior appearance.
If I go to Porche's website and add in all the upgrades that come standard with the ELR, the price becomes approximately $119,000. (Note that a fully-loaded Panamera S-E Hybrid is close to $180,000!)
So when one sees that the Panamera S-E Hybrid costs $119k vs. the ELR's $76k, the question is whether that $43k difference in price is worth 0-60 in 5.2 seconds, rear-wheel drive, a hatchback, easier rear seat access, less EV range, a less interesting exterior design, and the Porsche crest on the vehicle.
Does seeing how the Panamera S-E Hybrid compares in price change your mind about whether the ELR is overpriced? IMHO, if people are complaining about the ELR being overpriced, they should be having an apoplectic fit when discussing the Porsche's total cost!
If I was driving around in a $119k Panamera S-E Hybrid today and saw an ELR on the road, then learned it was $42k less, I would be beside myself with annoyance for having made the wrong decision. And most likely I would see the ELR gleefully zoom past me in the carpool lane while I was sitting in California traffic, unable to ever make use of my Porsche's acceleration or be able to access the HOV lane by myself.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Nope. The Panamera S E-Hybrid also sells horribly (about 40 in the first month and overall target is about 50 per month, so even worse than the ELR), likely because it is overpriced.
Also, given the non-hybrid Panamera S starts at $93.2k (similar power and acceleration), most Porsche buyers already are used to paying the extra "Porsche" premium and it may not seem like too bad of a value to them. $99k for the S E-Hybrid - $4750 tax credit = $94250, which means they are paying only a "plug-in premium" of $1050, which may seem worth it to some people.
On the other hand, the closest car in the Cadillac lineup to the ELR is the CTS Coupe and that starts at $40k (while out performing the ELR), so that's a premium of $35k. Sure you get more luxury features in the ELR, but most people don't care about that and get scared away by the high base price.
What genius marketing plan did this thought come out of? Most people do not care about luxury features! If that were true we would all still be driving Model T's and trying not to "spook the horses"!
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Perhaps I should have worded it differently (I don't mean they don't care about any luxury features), but obviously they don't care enough about some of the extra luxury features listed to pay an extra $35k premium nor to overlook the lower performance.
Another example is the Model S is missing a lot of the features listed, but no one cares enough for it to hurt sales. The same applies to the base Panamera.
In terms of marketing, a lot of people buy luxury brands for the badge and the badge power of Cadillac is obviously not comparable to Porsche. Also, a car that sells for a lower base price, but has the luxury features as options will likely sell better than a car that "bundles" those luxury features into a high base price. People look at the base price and already strike the car off their list.
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Stop: I agree with the change and your assessment. The problem is that most people have never driven the ELR. I came out of an Escalade EXT and believe me....I could not imagine me sacrificing the size and brute strength of the EXT for the small size of the ELR. Then I drove it. It was exhilarating. The ride was amazing and the handling was great. I had been fortunate enough to have been able to drive the CTS-V, etc. and the two cars do not compare. I would choose the ELR over the CTS-V every day of the week but, and you are correct, the Cadillac brand does not carry enough market strength to "push" a car into the minds of the $40K-$50k buyers. The buyers at $60k+ are much more willing to take a look at the ELR whether they buy one or not. I priced and seriously looked at a Model S. After including all the options I wanted the sticker was sitting at $110k and the car would STILL not get me to Houston and back or into Oklahoma, New Mexico, etc. without some MAJOR planning on my part. Way to much trouble for such a simple task of getting from A to B on a trip. I have driven to Arkansas, Oklahoma and all over Texas in the ELR and never had to plan a charge stop or worry about getting down to that "last 20 miles" of range. The ELR is an amazing car and I sincerely hope that Cadillac decides to continue its development with additional model years.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
The thing about the ELR is that no one ever said the car was a bad car, they just don't think the car is worth $75k. I've seen a lot of people say if the base price was more like $45-55k they would seriously consider it. Even if Cadillac has to remove some of the bundled features to reach this price, it would help sales a lot.
Looks like ELR discounting has begun...
"Inside EVs and Transport Evolved report that a few dealers in Florida, Texas, and Maryland are dangling from $12,000 to $13,600 in discounts to move the ELR. Coupled with federal incentives, this reduces the previously unreasonably-priced ELR to a virtual bargain in the mid-$50,000 range."
Drastic price cuts place Cadillac ELR where it should have been all along - Torque News
"Inside EVs and Transport Evolved report that a few dealers in Florida, Texas, and Maryland are dangling from $12,000 to $13,600 in discounts to move the ELR. Coupled with federal incentives, this reduces the previously unreasonably-priced ELR to a virtual bargain in the mid-$50,000 range."
Drastic price cuts place Cadillac ELR where it should have been all along - Torque News
they still need to drop it an additional $20k. it was like $35k overpriced to begin with.
MrIanB
Member
Agree and by December you will see that additional discount. It will be called the December to remember firesale. 1502 listed now on cars.com
ian B
Calvin.K
Member
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