Calling P85D owners world-wide for survey and complaint letter

[dsm363]

Really? Are you actually trying to justify this as well?

Then maybe they need an asterix for that as well... * "not possible in Denmark"

There is nowhere in that country those conditions apply, and the reasoning is getting so out there now I almost want to cry....

Umm, yes. Really. I'm not trying to "justify" anything "as well". I like the "you're trying to justify this as well" comment. That'd be like me telling someone 'you're complaining about this as well?' What part of "testing in exact same conditions" was confusing? So you're saying a 400lb driver in the rain going up a mountain at 8,000 ft with all season tires should get the exact same time as a 140lb person at sea level on level ground with summer tires? Got it.

Tesla has every right to state how they got their numbers. It's up to you to test in a similar manner. If you are still getting a significant decrease in performance then you have a case.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

Really? Are you actually trying to justify this as well?

Then maybe they need an asterix for that as well... * "not possible in Denmark"

There is nowhere in that country those conditions apply, and the reasoning is getting so out there now I almost want to cry....

Maybe Tesla was just trying to point out possible flaws in your testing methodology, but in a tactful way?

 

[darthy001]

Maybe Tesla was just trying to point out possible flaws in your testing methodology, but in a tactful way?

How can the country being flat be a flaw? If performance is only achievable at high altitude that is something that should be informed of... Especially in a country like Denmark...

There simply is no high altitude in Denmark.. I havent tested anything here so dont know what relevance the "your testing methodology"-reference has!? I am not danish

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Umm, yes. Really. I'm not trying to "justify" anything "as well". I like the "you're trying to justify this as well" comment. That'd be like me telling someone 'you're complaining about this as well?' What part of "testing in exact same conditions" was confusing? So you're saying a 400lb driver in the rain going up a mountain at 8,000 ft with all season tires should get the exact same time as a 140lb person at sea level on level ground with summer tires? Got it.

Tesla has every right to state how they got their numbers. It's up to you to test in a similar manner. If you are still getting a significant decrease in performance then you have a case.

I agree on weight, equipment etc. But altitude? Come on...

If it isnt theoretically possible to achieve the numbers in the country you buy the car in they should list it with achievable numbers in my mind...

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I remember power loss of an ICE is typically 3-4% per 1000 ft elevation. Denmark's highest elevation is 560 ft, so 1.7-2.4% loss there (12-17 hp loss for a theoretical 691 hp car). Not much but still measurable (similar to running air conditioning on full blast in an ICE car).

Of course... But seeing that the claim is around 150hp missing....


edit: @dsm363 touche on the comment about my justify comment. That was uncalled for... Even though you are right in observing that I am indeed complaining about one more piece of communication from Tesla its becoming a habit it seems...

 

[dsm363]

There is lots to complain about with Tesla's communication. That's for sure. I meant that most companies provide one set of test numbers and let people decide if it is applicable to their location. It would be time consuming to make a special 0-60 time for each country in the world. Even then within a country you can have vastly different test conditions. Tesla should be more clear about how they got what they got. Definitely agree with that.

 

[gnxs]

How can the country being flat be a flaw? If performance is only achievable at high altitude that is something that should be informed of... Especially in a country like Denmark...

There simply is no high altitude in Denmark.. I havent tested anything here so dont know what relevance the "your testing methodology"-reference has!? I am not danish

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I agree on weight, equipment etc. But altitude? Come on...

If it isnt theoretically possible to achieve the numbers in the country you buy the car in they should list it with achievable numbers in my mind...

Didn't that blurb posted from Elon/Tesla posted earlier in this thread note that the Motor Trend test was performed at ~ sea level and did achieve the 3.1 sec 0-60 figure (albeit with rollout)? To me it seemed the only reason he mentioned altitude was to show that even when an ICE vehicle was able to match the tesla performance at sea level, that the Tesla would outperform it as altitude increased. I didn't interpret it as him using altitude as some sort of excuse. I thought he was using it to point out another advantage of the technology. At least that's the way I took it.

 

[jerjozwik]

fyi, motor trend tests all there cars at auto club speedways drag strip in Fontana, CA. elevation is 1,237 ft (377 m).

 

[Torben_E]

So after not being able to setup a face to face meeting with Tesla, nor get a proper reply to any of our 3 compliant letters we took it to the Danish medias today :

http://ing.dk/artikel/paastand-tesla-kan-slet-ikke-levere-de-lovede-hestekraefter-178910
Ing is a engineerign newspaper.

http://pleasure.borsen.dk/bilen/art...jere_hvor_er_vores_hestekraefter_mr_musk.html

http://pleasure.borsen.dk/bilen/art...k_vision.html?hl=VGVzbGE7VGVzbGEmYWN1dGU7cw,,
børsen is a business newspaper. EM is in Copenhagen tomorrow so the timing is perfect.

It has not hit the tabloids yet.

It is obviously only in danish but I guess you get the point...

At the front page of børsen/pleasure right now you will see the follwoing :

The guy to the left.. (me) I love my car but miss 150 hk... EM to the right thinks.. how the F... am I goign to solve this problem...

I bought and paid for a P85D marketed with 691 hk. Tesla Motors was very precise how much I should pay, and I did... but Tesla Motors is not so precise about hp themselves. There is a gab of 150 hk....

Torben_E

 

[Lauz]

Tomorrow Elon Musk will arrive in Denmark and try to convince the danish parlament NOT to apply a 180% tax on all electrical vehicles from the 1/1.

Thanks to these articles, the public opinion in Denmark will now see the Tesla owners as a bunch of super-car fanatics, enjoying a huge tax-deduction on their 'toys' (and still being disgrunted).

Releasing these articles the day before Elons arrival to discuss such an important issue with the danish politicians is nothing short of reckless. These articles could de-facto ensure that EV's cannot be sold in Denmark anymore due to the 180% taxation.

well done.

 

[WarpedOne]

We just wanted to help,
We had good intentions,
We just ...

 

[dsm363]

Tomorrow Elon Musk will arrive in Denmark and try to convince the danish parlament NOT to apply a 180% tax on all electrical vehicles from the 1/1.

Thanks to these articles, the public opinion in Denmark will now see the Tesla owners as a bunch of super-car fanatics, enjoying a huge tax-deduction on their 'toys' (and still being disgrunted).

Releasing these articles the day before Elons arrival to discuss such an important issue with the danish politicians is nothing short of reckless. These articles could de-facto ensure that EV's cannot be sold in Denmark anymore due to the 180% taxation.

well done.

Welcome to TMC. Sounds like the law of unintended consequences. People may finally get the resolution they look for (a statement from Tesla, a credit, a buy back....etc) but then over double the price of the car for everyone else. Hardly sounds like a win-win.

 

[bonnie]

Tomorrow Elon Musk will arrive in Denmark and try to convince the danish parlament NOT to apply a 180% tax on all electrical vehicles from the 1/1.

Thanks to these articles, the public opinion in Denmark will now see the Tesla owners as a bunch of super-car fanatics, enjoying a huge tax-deduction on their 'toys' (and still being disgrunted).

Releasing these articles the day before Elons arrival to discuss such an important issue with the danish politicians is nothing short of reckless. These articles could de-facto ensure that EV's cannot be sold in Denmark anymore due to the 180% taxation.

well done.

Well said.

 

[sandpiper]

Tomorrow Elon Musk will arrive in Denmark and try to convince the danish parlament NOT to apply a 180% tax on all electrical vehicles from the 1/1.

Thanks to these articles, the public opinion in Denmark will now see the Tesla owners as a bunch of super-car fanatics, enjoying a huge tax-deduction on their 'toys' (and still being disgrunted).

Releasing these articles the day before Elons arrival to discuss such an important issue with the danish politicians is nothing short of reckless. These articles could de-facto ensure that EV's cannot be sold in Denmark anymore due to the 180% taxation.

well done.

While acknowledging that that the timing isn't helpful, I suspect (and hope) that this will not even register in the public mindset. How many people (outside of P85D owners) care about this issue at all ? Climate change and the necessity to reduce fossil fuel usage are much much bigger issues in the public mind than 100 (or whatever) horsepower or a few tenths of a second on a small number of cars.

And, without knowing the Danish press, it doesn't appear the referenced publications are major ones that would even bring the issue out to the public.

 

[cynix]

Looks like they just posted an official explanation on their blog: Tesla All Wheel Drive (Dual Motor) Power and Torque Specifications | Tesla Motors

 

[bonnie]

While acknowledging that that the timing isn't helpful, I suspect (and hope) that this will not even register in the public mindset. How many people (outside of P85D owners) care about this issue at all ? Climate change and the necessity to reduce fossil fuel usage are much much bigger issues in the public mind than 100 (or whatever) horsepower or a few tenths of a second on a small number of cars.

And, without knowing the Danish press, it doesn't appear the referenced publications are major ones that would even bring the issue out to the public.

While you may be right regarding the public, the reality is that if a politician is inclined to vote in a way that would hurt Tesla, they will look for justification to defend their position. Just very unfortunate timing for the community.

 

[sandpiper]

Looks like they just posted an official explanation on their blog: Tesla All Wheel Drive (Dual Motor) Power and Torque Specifications | Tesla Motors

This is a well written response. Obviously this won't satisfy the complainants but it does put Tesla's position in writing.

As for myself, I remain very happy with my P85D and feel that they delivered what I ordered. And when it's available, I might consider the L contactor/fuse upgrade.

 

[dsm363]

While you may be right regarding the public, the reality is that if a politician is inclined to vote in a way that would hurt Tesla, they will look for justification to defend their position. Just very unfortunate timing for the community.

That's exactly what I was going to say. Politicians who've made up their mind look for cover. Doesn't matter if the source is good or valid (could be a blog post for all they care) but they have something to point to.

 

[dsm363]

Looks like they just posted an official explanation on their blog: Tesla All Wheel Drive (Dual Motor) Power and Torque Specifications | Tesla Motors

Seems like a good response. Agree that it won't satisfy the people who are upset.

 

[sandpiper]

While you may be right regarding the public, the reality is that if a politician is inclined to vote in a way that would hurt Tesla, they will look for justification to defend their position. Just very unfortunate timing for the community.

Hopefully not. I don't pretend to know Danish politics, but generally there is a lot of overlap between the greenies and the more socialist types that would potentially resent the Tesla owners. If I were a betting man, I'd put money on it that Elon's plea and the steady push from environmentalists will sway the politicians to retain the exemption. It looks good on Denmark to have the highest EV penetration of any country in the world.

 

[bonnie]

Hopefully not. I don't pretend to know Danish politics, but generally there is a lot of overlap between the greenies and the more socialist types that would potentially resent the Tesla owners. If I were a betting man, I'd put money on it that Elon's plea and the steady push from environmentalists will sway the politicians to retain the exemption. It looks good on Denmark to have the highest EV penetration of any country in the world.

I very much hope that you are correct.

 

[JohnSnowNW]

Seems like a good response. Agree that it won't satisfy the people who are upset.

Judging by the few comments on the Blog...it would appear it will not. *sigh*