CCS Adapter for North America

[AlexUA]

Just thought I'd call this one up, didn't see it mentioned yet. The lock isn't *exactly* mission critical because every CCS plug - just like J1772 AC - has a switch in the handle that signals to the car and EVSE that it's been pressed (in the process of unlatching) and the car and EVSE both monitor it and react instantly. The Tesla-side lock is still active (holds the plug in the car), so it can't simply be pulled out - it has to be pressed to unlatch, then remove from the adapter still locked to the car. In that tiny fraction of time, many hundreds of thousands of CPU cycles on both sides pass, and they can react and de-energize that quickly.

That said, it's only a secondary safety mechanism, but given the relative flimsiness of the long latch lever in the handle, many charging sessions (on CCS vehicles) already end this way as it is (even if the handle can't be removed due to the lock). People don't bother/notice the stop button on the EVSE, so they try the handle first, often with excessive (frustrated/dumb) force, and that stops the session and unlocks the handle.

View attachment 758772

The Tesla adapter appears to have a passive lever that extends to the body of the charging port, and when inserted, it pushes the lock into the mechanism just by virtue of being inserted. Clever. Pretty simple if the EVhub guys decide to add that as well - would be smart if they did.

I'm still left wondering why they even decided to stump/fake the proximity pin in the first place with the flawed adapter design. My first thought would be to simply pass the pins all through - so why would they mess with faking a pin with a resistor at all? Ah well.

Really hope Tesla comes out with that adapter soon, already. I've got an incompatible ECU in my Model 3 and an attempt to upgrade to a Gen4 failed, but I'm scheduled to shovel more money at the problem with a service visit next week. Tesla swears up and down that the Gen4 ECU should be a drop-in compatible replacement and the service visit is mostly to figure out why it didn't "take" (throws faults after reflashing with an update). Fingers crossed I can then be ready for the passive adapter!

Lastly, of course this adapter can't be used for both AC and DC charging, because the Tesla plug shares pins for AC and DC charging. The AC pins in the adapter have to go nowhere, thus, because CCS has them separated out - can't guarantee that every DC station won't have AC pins as well that'd be fed DC voltage when connected. Big no-no (though unlikely) - but more importantly, the DC pins would be exposed AC during AC charging. Even bigger no-no. So, we'll always have 2 adapters. No biggie, but it does mean the CCS adapter will likely never be included/will never replace the J1772 AC adapter plug.

Because it was only option to make it work on CCS2, with the replacement of EU ECU to US spec vehicles.
Way before 40.6 arrived
As you can see story with CCS2 is publicly over a year of errors and evolution.
Now with Gen3(EU upg) and Gen4(US) there are 2 versions of CCS2 as well, they are different on that crappy resistor.

CCS1 stations here are working fine with it(but that based on CCS2 chips...)
And copy-paste to CCS1 from CCS2 failed obviously, especially after 40.6 come into play.

So yeah, everything go wrong with it, but fixed double pin version is already on its way.

 

[chinney]

I am very curious about how well all this will actually work once a Tesla CCS adapter is actually released in North America. I imagine that efforts to resolve potential problems in advance is part of the reason for the delay in release. While 'beta' releases are not unknown for Tesla, they presumably don't want it to be a complete logistical disaster for them.

 

[FalconFour]

FWIW, I got my hands on (though only literally, but not to keep) a Tesla CCS adapter recently. What a chonky beast It's hefty, and you can feel the solid block of unobtanium it was forged from

As I suspected, there's a protruding prong that functions as the CCS-plug-side handle lock (preventing you from pressing the button to unlatch it), such that the process is: attach adapter to handle/plug first -> plug handle/plug+adapter into the car, and that action will press the prong and lock the latch. Then, the car's lock holds the adapter into the car as well. Voila, all the safety-standards people are made to be happy that way.

I'd also wager a guess that the reason Tesla's Korean shop keeps running-out is because it's the only place to buy them... I know such statistics are impossible to track, but imagine if you could track the whereabouts of each adapter sold I'd bet the majority of the ones sold are getting shipped to other countries. Or are sold in-person at service centers there, maybe.

 

[Mockingbird]

Considering that the adapter will most likely be out of stock 99.99% of the time, I am surprised that nobody has released a third party adapter that is indistingushable from the official adapter.

 

[e of pi]

Considering that the adapter will most likely be out of stock 99.99% of the time, I am surprised that nobody has released a third party adapter that is indistingushable from the official adapter.

It's still only been a few months since the release of the firmware that enabled using adapters at all, and supply chains are a mess right now. EVHub appears to be trying to get something roughly equivalent in function, but their existing one just...didn't work because of the pin problem. We'll see how the new one works, and cloning Tesla's presumably requires getting at least a look in person at one which is equally hard to do. I'd imagine in a year or so if Tesla adapter stocks are still bad then something workable will be around third-party in numbers, whether that's more like the solid passive adapter like EVHub's or something closer to cloning Tesla's first-party one, but we'll see. Certainly Tesla's not currently keeping up with demand for it.

 

[bradtem]

Considering that the adapter will most likely be out of stock 99.99% of the time, I am surprised that nobody has released a third party adapter that is indistingushable from the official adapter.

It's a business that won't last long for you. If you can undercut the Tesla price (I estimate $200 if it's just over that in Korea) you can keep selling them. But this is something that, if it's not well made, can start a big fire and destroy your car. Most would be willing to pay for the Tesla branded one because Tesla has more to lose if that happens. I don't know why this adapter will be out of stock all the time, unless Tesla seriously misunderstands demand. It needs no chip so there is no reason to limit the number you make once you tool up the plant. Best to not sell them and just give them to CCS charging stations. There are vastly fewer CCS stations than there are Teslas!

Unlike a 3rd party, Tesla has no big need for profit on this. It makes your car better. Same reason they run the very expensive supercharger network on at at-cost basis.

Another clever trick if you can't give them to the stations is to give them and charge rent to the Tesla owners who use them. Tesla knows what station it is at. Tesla knows if you own your own private adapter. It can figure when to charge $1 to use the adapter or whatever rent recovers the cost.

 

[kayak1]

It's a business that won't last long for you. If you can undercut the Tesla price (I estimate $200 if it's just over that in Korea) you can keep selling them. But this is something that, if it's not well made, can start a big fire and destroy your car. Most would be willing to pay for the Tesla branded one because Tesla has more to lose if that happens. I don't know why this adapter will be out of stock all the time, unless Tesla seriously misunderstands demand. It needs no chip so there is no reason to limit the number you make once you tool up the plant. Best to not sell them and just give them to CCS charging stations. There are vastly fewer CCS stations than there are Teslas!

Unlike a 3rd party, Tesla has no big need for profit on this. It makes your car better. Same reason they run the very expensive supercharger network on at at-cost basis.

Another clever trick if you can't give them to the stations is to give them and charge rent to the Tesla owners who use them. Tesla knows what station it is at. Tesla knows if you own your own private adapter. It can figure when to charge $1 to use the adapter or whatever rent recovers the cost.

If it has no chip, I don't see how tesla can know if you have a tesla adapter or a 3rd party. If they start charging to charge with a 3rd party adapter at a non-Tesla station I can see the lawers swooping in and creating a class action.

The number of CCS vs supper charger stations doesn't matter if your car can charge from each. What will matter is the location and then the cost.

I hope that they release the adapter in the North America soon and be ready with a large volume.

The more ways our cars can charge the better.

 

[stopcrazypp]

If it has no chip, I don't see how tesla can know if you have a tesla adapter or a 3rd party. If they start charging to charge with a 3rd party adapter at a non-Tesla station I can see the lawers swooping in and creating a class action.

The number of CCS vs supper charger stations doesn't matter if your car can charge from each. What will matter is the location and then the cost.

I hope that they release the adapter in the North America soon and be ready with a large volume.

The more ways our cars can charge the better.

He's talking about giving official adapters to all CCS charging providers for free (one per station) and paying for it by charging rent to those that didn't buy one, not talking about doing that only for third party adapters.

 

[lynyrdM]

He's talking about giving official adapters to all CCS charging providers for free (one per station) and paying for it by charging rent to those that didn't buy one, not talking about doing that only for third party adapters.

The issue with this idea is that most cars will need their charging ECUs replaced to use the adapters and at that point you might as well buy the adapter. In the case of Europe replacing the chip is included when you buy a CCS2 adapter for your S/X.

As time goes on, it's true that most Teslas will ship with the CCS chip and I suppose if Tesla won't be including the adapter with new cars, (I wish they would for customer simplicity), then maybe they do something like EV-Go does with Chademo adapters. Permanently mount the adapter internally and add a Tesla cable.

Given the adapter is purely passive, maybe even that isn't necessary. If Tesla will sell the cables, you could just connect a Tesla cable to a CCS Charger directly as a direct replacement for obsolete chademo cables and in the case of EA the redundant CCS cable (since stations tend to carry two CCS1 plugs per charger).

 

[Rocky_H]

It's a business that won't last long for you. If you can undercut the Tesla price (I estimate $200 if it's just over that in Korea) you can keep selling them. But this is something that, if it's not well made, can start a big fire and destroy your car. Most would be willing to pay for the Tesla branded one because Tesla has more to lose if that happens.

I was totally there with you on this part. Spot on.

I don't know why this adapter will be out of stock all the time, unless Tesla seriously misunderstands demand.

...until you got to this part, where you seem unaware that Tesla is continually out of stock on most of the things in their store.

 

[stopcrazypp]

The issue with this idea is that most cars will need their charging ECUs replaced to use the adapters and at that point you might as well buy the adapter. In the case of Europe replacing the chip is included when you buy a CCS2 adapter for your S/X.

As time goes on, it's true that most Teslas will ship with the CCS chip and I suppose if Tesla won't be including the adapter with new cars, (I wish they would for customer simplicity), then maybe they do something like EV-Go does with Chademo adapters. Permanently mount the adapter internally and add a Tesla cable.

Given the adapter is purely passive, maybe even that isn't necessary. If Tesla will sell the cables, you could just connect a Tesla cable to a CCS Charger directly as a direct replacement for obsolete chademo cables and in the case of EA the redundant CCS cable (since stations tend to carry two CCS1 plugs per charger).

The problem with permanently converting one of those CCS cables is that those are needed for CCS cars given charge port locations are not standard and it might be needed to reach certain port locations (that was the reason to have two in first place).

 

[Mockingbird]

You need to look forward, not backward.

All roads lead to CCS.

Automakers who formerly used CHAdeMO is ditching it for CCS.

There is $7.5 billion in government's subsidies to build EV charging infastructure and that requires CCS.

Tesla is opening Supercharger to non-Tesla vehicles which overwhelmingly use CCS.

Going foward, everyone would want CCS for their vehicles.

Not having CCS in their vehicles would disadvantage.

People will rush to have their older Tesla vehicles retrofitted to support the CCS adapter so that their vehicles will not be stuck with legacy status.

Tesla probably needs to accumulate enough ECUs to accommodate the people rushing in, which is probably why the official adapter hasn't been released yet.

This leaves a big window for someone to come in and sell a third party adapter in the meanwhile.

 

[gglockner]

This leaves a big window for someone to come in and sell a third party adapter in the meanwhile.

Like Setek?

 

[Mockingbird]

Like Setek?

Well, many people who have Tesla vehicles with the CCS-supported ECU is hoping for a newer adapter that supports more than 50 kW.

 

[bradtem]

I was totally there with you on this part. Spot on.

...until you got to this part, where you seem unaware that Tesla is continually out of stock on most of the things in their store.

Oh, I know it. What I said was I don't know why. Do you know why Tesla is so poor at supply chain (even before supply chain became the excuse for everything?)

 

[chinney]

Oh, I know it. What I said was I don't know why. Do you know why Tesla is so poor at supply chain (even before supply chain became the excuse for everything?)

Well that might have been written a bit too broadly. I agree that Tesla is all too often out of stock on replacement items and accessories on the Tesla Store. I also have seen indications of a lack of replacement parts leading to delays in Tesla Service (although that has not been my own personal experience in the two times I have needed service). On the other hand, Tesla has proved to have a mastery of its supply chain when it comes to keeping up a high production rates on vehicles themselves, even as other manufacturers have run into difficulties. More narrowly expressed, I agree that there are good arguments that Tesla does not pay enough attention to the need to also have sufficient replacement parts and accessories in stock.

 

[bobby g]

Well that might have been written a bit too broadly. I agree that Tesla is all too often out of stock on replacement items and accessories on the Tesla Store. I also have seen indications of a lack of replacement parts leading to delays in Tesla Service (although that has not been my own personal experience in the two times I have needed service). On the other hand, Tesla has proved to have a mastery of its supply chain when it comes to keeping up a high production rates on vehicles themselves, even as other manufacturers have run into difficulties. More narrowly expressed, I agree that there are good arguments that Tesla does not pay enough attention to the need to also have sufficient replacement parts and accessories in stock.

Ties up capital? They often have service centers in lower rent areas.

 

[Rocky_H]

Oh, I know it. What I said was I don't know why.

Ooh, I interpreted that a little differently from what I assumed in the tone. It was mentioned that this item would be out of stock most of the time, and I thought you meant "I don't know why you would think that".

Do you know why Tesla is so poor at supply chain (even before supply chain became the excuse for everything?)

And then that last part: "unless Tesla seriously misunderstands demand" sounded like sarcasm as something Tesla was unlikely to do. It seemed like you doubted it, rather than already knew it was an ongoing problem for Tesla on many of their products.

Dang this typed language stuff!

 

[MontyFloyd]

You need to look forward, not backward.

All roads lead to CCS.

Automakers who formerly used CHAdeMO is ditching it for CCS.

There is $7.5 billion in government's subsidies to build EV charging infastructure CCS.

Tesla is opening Supercharger to non-Tesla vehicles which overwhelmingly use CCS.

Going foward, everyone would want CCS for their vehicles.

Not having CCS in their vehicles would disadvantage.

People will rush to have their older Tesla vehicles retrofitted to support the CCS adapter so that their vehicles will not be stuck with legacy status.

Tesla probably needs to accumulate enough ECUs to accommodate the people rushing in, which is probably why the official adapter hasn't been released yet.

This leaves a big window for someone to come in and sell a third party adapter in the meanwhile.

I see no indication of Tesla abandoning its plug. This year Tesla will make over 2 million cars per estimates.

And the Infrastructure law does not mention any charging plug or standard. Simple says install chargers.

 

[jabloomf1230]

I see no indication of Tesla abandoning its plug. This year Tesla will make over 2 million cars per estimates.

And the Infrastructure law does not mention any charging plug or standard. Simple says install chargers.

The US government has requested comments on this section of the Act and will use these comments to define its policy in awarding grants to the States:

https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2021/11/29/2021-25868/development-of-guidance-for-electric-vehicle-charging-infrastructure-deployment