Chevy Bolt - 200 mile range for $30k base price (after incentive)

[stopcrazypp]

No, you are not understanding it correctly. A stripped Bolt will come with the two NAV systems that a stripped Volt comes with: OnStar human concierge and emergency system, or you use your cellphone via Apple Carplay or Android Auto.

If you want a third nav system, you can order it. If you want a 4th system, hire somebody to sit in the back seat and yell at you. If you want a 5th system, go to the store and buy a bag of bread crumbs to mark your trail.

Or, you do like I do. I look a map before I leave home, print out a sheet of direction, and if I get lost, call OnStar and they will get me there.

That's stetching. Nav in context refers to turn-by-turn with maps built-in. A conceirge service or Carplay and Android Auto is different because they require cell/data reception (and associated annual/monthly service fees).

I personally don't think it is an issue if the base doesn't include Nav, but the reporting makes it seem like it won't even be an option.

 

[McRat]

That's stetching. Nav in context refers to turn-by-turn with maps built-in. A conceirge service or Carplay and Android Auto is different because they require cell/data reception (and associated annual/monthly service fees).

I personally don't think it is an issue if the base doesn't include Nav, but the reporting makes it seem like it won't even be an option.

OK, once more. OnStar PUSHES nav maps into a car. It downloads the data into a car.

Maps are pushed into the car when you ask for directions, hence the lack of cell reception does not delete your stored maps.

Yes, dedicated NAV is still an option on all GM's that I know of.

I don't order it anymore. It requires updates. Our 2010 is the last car we bought with dedicated NAV, and we don't miss it.

 

[JRP3]

I guess my bicycle came with nav since I can call a friend on my cell phone and have them give me step by step directions, or use Google Maps on the phone...

 

[McRat]

I guess my bicycle came with nav since I can call a friend on my cell phone and have them give me step by step directions, or use Google Maps on the phone...

You need to drive a modern car to understand what Carplay is, what systems like OnStar are, or what state-of-the-art is.

It's not what you apparently think. The audible turn by turn is also displayed on the instrument LCD and the Infotainment console, and on some cars, the windshield (HUD).

If you want a NAV stereo from 2010, then go to your local car stereo joint, ask for Juan, and he will hook you up.

 

[gregd]

Perhaps Android Auto or the iPhone equivalent solves this, but one thing I've found about using your phone for turn-by-turn directions is that you need to keep the car audio system "aimed" at the phone's Bluetooth audio in order to keep the turn information coming through. You can't, for example, play the car FM radio, as it will stop "playing" the phone's directions.

If you disconnect the Bluetooth so you can hear the phone audio directly, that's great, but then the car's FM audio won't mute when directions come through, nor will phone calls come through the car system.

Does Android Auto fix this problem?

 

[SageBrush]

My 2016 stripped Chevrolet Volt not only came with a Cellphone and Emergency Beacon, it came with Human Interface Navigation stock

I read your posts just for amusement, along the lines of 'just HOW much lipstick will that pig wear ?', but for truly laugh worthy defense of the Bolt, gm-volt.com cannot be beat.

The latest were the responses to a home-grown article that was very atypically objective in explaining why the Bolt is a commuter car when all is said and done, once the author realized that Bolt highway range at normative US speeds will be waay less than the 238 miles they were crowing about last week and GM cannot be bothered to support a highway fast charge network. One of the highest rated responses said, in part:

"So forget all the BS about Cd and frontal area."

I thought about registering just to provide the aero drag formula but I decided not to mess with willful stupidity.

 

[stopcrazypp]

OK, once more. OnStar PUSHES nav maps into a car. It downloads the data into a car.

Maps are pushed into the car when you ask for directions, hence the lack of cell reception does not delete your stored maps.

Yes, dedicated NAV is still an option on all GM's that I know of.

I don't order it anymore. It requires updates. Our 2010 is the last car we bought with dedicated NAV, and we don't miss it.

That's the same as Carplay or Android Auto, which requires a data connection to work. There is some level of caching so it won't die immediately (and in Android you can save a portion of an area for offline usage), but this is still way different from a nav unit that has the map of the entire USA/North America in it, which you can look up an address at any time with no data connection whatsoever.

Personally, I don't care for onboard NAV units anyways (I have my separate dedicated unit with free lifetime map updates, which I download from my computer). I know nowadays using the phone is more popular, but I have only a very basic data plan, which using navigation/maps would use up rather quickly.

Just making the point that when people talk about Nav, probably 99% of the time they are talking about a dedicated Nav (which doesn't seem clear yet if it will be an option in the Bolt).

 

[Jeff N]

...the Bolt is a commuter car when all is said and done, once the author realized that Bolt highway range at normative US speeds will be waay less than the 238 miles...

The same could be said of the S60 but you will find plenty of people here that enjoy taking occasional longer trips in their S60.

The Bolt EV will likely do 190-200 miles of range at 70 mph which is a reasonable highway speed in most parts of North America. That sort of range is fully compatible with the typical 100-140 mile charging strides used by many Tesla drivers today on long-distance trips. Once 125A or better CCS stations are available it's a matter of waiting ~55 minutes vs ~35 minutes between driving segments.

One of the highest rated responses said, in part:

"So forget all the BS about Cd and frontal area."

I think that was said in the context of discussing the accurate idea that aero isn't everything for highway range. Aero is an important part of the story but battery capacity and powertrain efficiency are also important. The Bolt EV appears to have an advantage on powertrain efficiency over the RWD S60 which helps balance against its greater drag area when looking at 65-70 mph highway speeds.

 

[SageBrush]

I think that was said in the context of discussing the accurate idea that aero isn't everything for highway range.

Nice try. From the same post

This is so ridiculous. Range, highway or otherwise, is definitely NOT established by something like Cd. It’s largely determined by the size of the battery. Secondarily it’s determined by the overall efficiency of the vehicle.

So either "efficiency" refers to the drivetrain differences and then they are even more clueless than I give them credit for, or they fail to realize that miles/kWh at 70 mph is markedly influenced by CdA.

How much ? For the bolt around 65 Wh/mile less if the car had a 0.21 Cd. The bloated Cd increases fuel consumption by around 30%, and since the battery size differences between the Bolt and the M3 are no way near that amount his argument is, to use his words, ridiculous. Which makes for great entertainment.

And next time, quote my entire sentence:

once the author realized that Bolt highway range at normative US speeds will be waay less than the 238 miles they were crowing about last week and GM cannot be bothered to support a highway fast charge network

 

[Jeff N]

And next time, quote my entire sentence:

As we have discussed, it's largely irrelevant whether GM builds their own charging network, contributes to a consortium network, or whether VW builds it all for them and every other CCS car maker by way of VW's mandated $2 billion 10-year zero-emissions infrastructure consent decree. The bottom line is that there should be plenty of cash sloshing around to quickly build out a Supercharger-like network usable by the Bolt EV and other non-Tesla cars.

 

[JohnSnowNW]

As we have discussed, it's largely irrelevant whether GM builds their own charging network, contributes to a consortium network, or whether VW builds it all for them and every other CCS car maker by way of VW's mandated $2 billion 10-year zero-emissions infrastructure consent decree. The bottom line is that there should be plenty of cash sloshing around to quickly build out a Supercharger-like network usable by the Bolt EV and other non-Tesla cars.

Hmm, so them not having any influence on the network isn't an issue? For one, there is already a group that is attempting to delay the money to make sure it's used in a "responsible" manner...

I think you're being a bit optimistic.

 

[trils0n]

If anyone is interested, I noticed there is a 6 or so minute Periscope video of Chevy Bolt drive from the @OCTeslaClub twitter.

 

[stopcrazypp]

As we have discussed, it's largely irrelevant whether GM builds their own charging network, contributes to a consortium network, or whether VW builds it all for them and every other CCS car maker by way of VW's mandated $2 billion 10-year zero-emissions infrastructure consent decree. The bottom line is that there should be plenty of cash sloshing around to quickly build out a Supercharger-like network usable by the Bolt EV and other non-Tesla cars.

The $2 billion is for "zero emissions vehicle (ZEV) infrastructure, access and awareness initiatives". The latter two are generic enough to mean anything. And "infrastructure" can cover a lot (including AC and home chargers). What matters is how much they will actually spend on CCS infrastructure (particularly the 100+KW type). VW's current DC infrastructure spending is primarily on 24kW chargers (in partnership with BMW and Chargepoint).

 

[BluestarE3]

The $2 billion is for "zero emissions vehicle (ZEV) infrastructure, access and awareness initiatives". The latter two are generic enough to mean anything. And "infrastructure" can cover a lot (including AC and home chargers). What matters is how much they will actually spend on CCS infrastructure (particularly the 100+KW type). VW's current DC infrastructure spending is primarily on 24kW chargers (in partnership with BMW and Chargepoint).

"awareness initiatives" sounds like advertising/promo, which could be for public service announcements or perhaps ads to promote public awareness of VW brand plug-in vehicles?

 

[Jeff N]

The $2 billion is for "zero emissions vehicle (ZEV) infrastructure, access and awareness initiatives". The latter two are generic enough to mean anything. And "infrastructure" can cover a lot (including AC and home chargers). What matters is how much they will actually spend on CCS infrastructure (particularly the 100+KW type). VW's current DC infrastructure spending is primarily on 24kW chargers (in partnership with BMW and Chargepoint).

It's a huge amount of money so there should be healthy amounts of it going towards fast highway charging even if large amounts are also spent on "other" items. The budget and plans are overseen and approved by EPA and CARB which means some silly spending but also means some genuine needs will be addressed such as the need for highway-focused fast charging (which VW needs for their own business plan purposes).

 

[trils0n]

VW Fallout: $2.0 Billion for ZEV Infrastructure Buildout

Here is the thread for VW's 2B infrastructure buildout. Short version: stupid amount of money that will make a pretty epic charging infrastructure.

 

[stopcrazypp]

It's a huge amount of money so there should be healthy amounts of it going towards fast highway charging even if large amounts are also spent on "other" items. The budget and plans are overseen and approved by EPA and CARB which means some silly spending but also means some genuine needs will be addressed such as the need for highway-focused fast charging (which VW needs for their own business plan purposes).

The reason why I'm not optimistic even with the huge amount of money is because it seems the automakers have still not "seen the light". It's not about the amount of money, but how it is spent. The focus is still like the CHAdeMO days, which is dealer based 24kW-50kW chargers and only single/dual chargers per station (even in the non-dealer ones). I expected the CCS backers to leapfrog CHAdeMO and immediately focus on 100+kW chargers (and public non-dealer chargers), but it seems they are making the same strategy mistake.

VW Fallout: $2.0 Billion for ZEV Infrastructure Buildout

Here is the thread for VW's 2B infrastructure buildout. Short version: stupid amount of money that will make a pretty epic charging infrastructure.

Thanks for the link. Kind of off topic here, but looking through that thread, $800 million is for California, but that spending includes hydrogen infrastructure (plus other stuff like ZEV buses). Hydrogen infrastructure is a very easy way to burn through a lot of money.

There is a lot of assuming in that thread that EV infrastructure means Level 3 DC, but that is not the case from previous projects. Ecotality's $114 million in grants (with 50-50 cost share so, actually would be counted as $228 million under same accounting as VW) resulted in 12450 Level 2 stations and 110 DC stations (many of which unreliable and broken).
http://www.greentechmedia.com/artic...-Charging-Network-Changes-Hands-But-Not-Bad-R

 

[Jeff N]

The reason why I'm not optimistic even with the huge amount of money is because it seems the automakers have still not "seen the light".

I agree this is a major concern but I have seen evidence that better thinking is beginning to emerge.

This won't be easy and it's not a sure thing but I'm convinced that enough major players with approximately the right economic motivations are converging (rather improbably) in a way that can make this come together.

 

[SageBrush]

The Bolt EV will likely do 190-200 miles of range at 70 mph which is a reasonable highway speed in most parts of North America. That sort of range is fully compatible with the typical 100-140 mile charging strides used by many Tesla drivers today on long-distance trips. Once 125A or better CCS stations are available it's a matter of waiting ~55 minutes vs ~35 minutes between driving segments.

Yup.

You have to be committed to a Bolt to buy the car on a hope that one day, you will be able to drive long-distance in a fashion considerably more annoying than your Tesla neighbors. My wife opined the other day that a 15 minute charge is no annoyance at all since we spend 10 minutes now anyway stretching and emptying bladders. 30 minutes would be annoying but acceptable, and 60 minutes would be a drag. I suspect that she reflects a fair swath of the significant other population in the car.

 

[Menifeer]

Yup.

You have to be committed to a Bolt to buy the car on a hope that one day, you will be able to drive long-distance in a fashion considerably more annoying than your Tesla neighbors. My wife opined the other day that a 15 minute charge is no annoyance at all since we spend 10 minutes now anyway stretching and emptying bladders. 30 minutes would be annoying but acceptable, and 60 minutes would be a drag. I suspect that she reflects a fair swath of the significant other population in the car.

As EVs become more common, refueling will become more problematic.

A common assumption seems to be that a “pump” will be available when the car arrives. That won’t be the case if Tesla succeeds in selling as many as projected. Waits to plug in will likely be common at peak traffic periods. People will be sitting in their cars (maybe for a good while) waiting for others to vacate a spot, adding to the total refuel time.

The thought always seems to be that we’ll be doing something else while our cars recharge, an option we don’t have with ICE cars. Since the ICE fill-up happens rather quickly, there’s little motivation to do something else at the same time. The EV driver, on the other hand, can enjoy a leisurely dinner or shop and leave the car attached to the charger far longer than needed to recharge, denying others its use. I foresee this being the case at the mall near my home where SC was recently installed.

People who always recharge at home won’t be affected, of course.