Chevy Bolt - 200 mile range for $30k base price (after incentive)

[ℬête Noire]

Well that sucks... hopefully just an outlier. I haven't heard of this being a widespread Bolt problem.

I wonder what the actual failure was? Doesn't sound like contactor issues, as it was "reduced power" for a bit, not sudden shutdown.

It sounds like unexpectedly reaching end-of-charge left in the battery. There is, in my understanding, a separate reserve kicks in beyond the zero charge remaining level. When you're drawing on that the vehicle switches into "limp" mode, heavily limited the amount of current you can draw and thus the maximum speed you can travel at.

Whether this was an issue with how charge was being measured, thus it wasn't as full charge as the vehicle's sensors thought up until the point there just wasn't any left (so in effect it hadn't been properly fully charged), or there was a failure in some of the battery cells/banks that created a sudden loss in availability, or maybe again a sensor issue where there really was charge left but the computer considered it not there? *shrug*

 

[Saghost]

It sounds like unexpectedly reaching end-of-charge left in the battery. There is, in my understanding, a separate reserve kicks in beyond the zero charge remaining level. When you're drawing on that the vehicle switches into "limp" mode, heavily limited the amount of current you can draw and thus the maximum speed you can travel at.

Whether this was an issue with how charge was being measured, thus it wasn't as full charge as the vehicle's sensors thought up until the point there just wasn't any left (so in effect it hadn't been properly fully charged), or there was a failure in some of the battery cells/banks that created a sudden loss in availability, or maybe again a sensor issue where there really was charge left but the computer considered it not there? *shrug*

I'm thinking what happened is that one of the 96 cell blocks dropped to dangerously low voltage.

That's been what led to similar abrupt side of the road failures with Volts, which really frustrated owners because the engine never came on - the car was saying there was electric range left right up until it suddenly shut down, just like this case.

We haven't seen this with Teslas, probably because a weakness or failure of a single cell has so little effect on the total capacity of the series block it's in.

One of the consequences of GM's big cell approach is a problem with one cell strands the car. A Tesla is much more likely to have cell problems statistically, but those problems have minimal impact.

 

[mtndrew1]

Well that sucks... hopefully just an outlier. I haven't heard of this being a widespread Bolt problem.

I wonder what the actual failure was? Doesn't sound like contactor issues, as it was "reduced power" for a bit, not sudden shutdown.

Not “widespread” but this is at least the tenth car I’ve read about doing this sort of thing, sometimes with 150+ miles showing in the tank.

I believe there was a bulletin/recall for just this phenomenon for several hundred early Bolts. Not sure what the build date is of the Edmunds car of course but I was under the impression that GM was reaching out to known cars via OnStar diagnostics to alert affected VINs.

 

[MP3Mike]

Here is an article from August about the pack problems: GM warns some Bolt EV owners that they are recalling a few battery packs that can shut down

Apparently it is more widespread than GM thought. (Or they missed contacting some people?)

 

[bro1999]

Here is an article from August about the pack problems: GM warns some Bolt EV owners that they are recalling a few battery packs that can shut down

Apparently it is more widespread than GM thought. (Or they missed contacting some people?)

Edmunds posted an update saying they acquired their long term test Bolt EV Feb 3, 2017. By that point, they had already logged 630 miles on it, so they probably picked it up sometime mid-late Jan 2017, so probably one of the first couple thousand Bolts sold retail. 2017 Chevrolet Bolt EV Long-Term Road Test - Introduction

Will have to see what their forthcoming full report says.

 

[ℬête Noire]

Not “widespread” but this is at least the tenth car I’ve read about doing this sort of thing, sometimes with 150+ miles showing in the tank.

I believe there was a bulletin/recall for just this phenomenon for several hundred early Bolts. Not sure what the build date is of the Edmunds car of course but I was under the impression that GM was reaching out to known cars via OnStar diagnostics to alert affected VINs.

My OnStar knowledge is very thin. I've given a pass on subscribing to OnStar, can they still push notification messages on it to me?

There is no expected reason to go in for service for several years (I'll be handling rotating the tires myself, coming up on that pretty soon, as well as changing the air filter) and that's a traditional means to catch recall bulletins short of those very high profile ones like the airbag recalls.

 

[mtndrew1]

My OnStar knowledge is very thin. I've given a pass on subscribing to OnStar, can they still push notification messages on it to me?

There is no expected reason to go in for service for several years (I'll be handling rotating the tires myself, coming up on that pretty soon, as well as changing the air filter) and that's a traditional means to catch recall bulletins short of those very high profile ones like the airbag recalls.

I got my problem/recall notifications on my Volts via a monthly vehicle health report from OnStar. I assume this requires a subscription to the service but I don’t see why they couldn’t use a VIN database to reach out to customers via email or text. OnStar was included for the duration of my Volt leases so I just had it included the entire time I had the cars.

 

[ℬête Noire]

I got my problem/recall notifications on my Volts via a monthly vehicle health report from OnStar. I assume this requires a subscription to the service but I don’t see why they couldn’t use a VIN database to reach out to customers via email or text. OnStar was included for the duration of my Volt leases so I just had it included the entire time I had the cars.

I don't recall seeing any monthly report? My understanding is that 3 months of OnStar came with the vehicle. Where does that report show up? Salesman didn't say anything about that during the hand-over.

 

[Jeff N]

Seems odd that GM isn't able to tell which cars were going to have the problem and send a note to those with affected cars. Instead of the car just giving up the ghost and leaving folks stranded. Of course on the flip side, it seems like Tesla can be overly paranoid with it's you need to get to a service center messages.

GM has indeed been notifying some customers and scheduled battery replacements for them before the customers noticed a problem or were stranded. They don’t seem to catch every emerging failure however.

 

[diamond.g]

I don't recall seeing any monthly report? My understanding is that 3 months of OnStar came with the vehicle. Where does that report show up? Salesman didn't say anything about that during the hand-over.

I believe they email it. For the Volt you can see it at myvolt.com as well.

 

[ℬête Noire]

I believe they email it.

Ah, maybe my wife has been getting it and just not mentioned it. It's in her name so she might have given her address.

 

[Jeff N]

I wrote an update on the Bolt EV battery pack fail issue at my new EV news site ElectricRevs.com.

New details emerge as a few Bolt EV packs continue to fail

A few Chevrolet Bolt EVs are continuing to have battery pack failures that can cause unexpected and relatively sudden loss of power while driving, according to General Motors and individual owner reports on social media sites.

....

 

[techmaven]

I wrote an update on the Bolt EV battery pack fail issue at my new EV news site ElectricRevs.com.

New details emerge as a few Bolt EV packs continue to fail

With such a significant disparity in cell voltage, it should be pretty easy for GM to identify the problematic packs. The issue really is how widespread the issue is across the fleet.

 

[jejusoul]

I wrote an update on the Bolt EV battery pack fail issue at my new EV news site ElectricRevs.com.

New details emerge as a few Bolt EV packs continue to fail

Jeff: Interesting article. I tried to comment on your site, but it seems my post got lost in moderation.

I can add a few details about the Battery Management System used in GM electric cars. It seems that the Chevy Spark EV, the Chevy Volt PHEV and the Chevy Bolt EV all use the same BMS. Perhaps this is obvious because all 3 packs are built by LG Chem.

All 3 of these cars respond to an OBD request that the BMS is named "B+EnergyCtrl BECM" , presumably Battery Energy Control Module
They all seem to have similar codes.

2015 Chevy Spark EV valid mode 22 PID

Opel Ampera & Chevrolet Volt Forum: CAN-Hacking (war: OBD2 - ELM327 - Linux)

Chevrolet Bolt OBD2 PIDs

We even have a picture inside the Bolt EV BMS showing a Volt circuit board.
These are screenshots of the Bolt's BMS - it's labelled VITM = Voltage Current Temperature Management. The screenshots comes from a battery reassembly YouTube video by Professor John Kelley at Weber State University. - 2017 Chevrolet Bolt EV Battery Reassembly





Also interesting to report that all Hyundai / Kia electric cars also respond to an OBD request that the BMS is named "B+EnergyCtrl BECM".
But in this case the codes for the other PIDs are not the same as used in GM vehicles.


http://www.opel-ampera-forum.de/viewtopic.php?t=1147#p14050

 

[bro1999]

The Chevy Sonic Is Reportedly Dead

The Sonic is produced at the same plant as the Bolt. Well, not for much longer. This means more Bolts will definitely be cranked out from Orion soon! Along with the Buick Bolt, whenever that is announced.

 

[Jeff N]

I can add a few details about the Battery Management System used in GM electric cars. It seems that the Chevy Spark EV, the Chevy Volt PHEV and the Chevy Bolt EV all use the same BMS. Perhaps this is obvious because all 3 packs are built by LG Chem.

I knew the 2nd generation Volt and the Bolt EV shared the same BMS but didn’t know that the 2015 Spark EV did as well.

While all 3 batteries contain cells and BMS circuits from LG, the Spark and Volt packs are assembled at a GM factory in Michigan from cells made by an LG factory in Michigan. The Bolt EV cells and battery are assembled in South Korea.

Also interesting to report that all Hyundai / Kia electric cars also respond to an OBD request that the BMS is named "B+EnergyCtrl BECM".
But in this case the codes for the other PIDs are not the same as used in GM vehicles.

I know essentially nothing about the Hyundai and Kia battery packs and BMS except that I think Hyumdai’s battery cells have recently been coming from LG while Kia has been getting cells from another Korean company (SK Innovation, I think).

Thanks for commenting at ElectricRevs. For some reason your 2 comments were automatically dropped into the spam bucket. I have now approved them.

 

[bro1999]

Why I traded my Chevy Bolt EV for a Tesla: one reader's story

The guy's situation (600+ mile road trips) led him to handing his Bolt to his son while he got a used '15 Model S. Basically, the reason for the swap all came down to fast charging, which no one can really argue is better than Tesla's SC network at the moment. Still think it's a bit silly comparing a 37-43k Bolt to a retail 100k Model S, but whatever.

 

[Jeff N]

I wrote an update on the Bolt EV battery pack fail issue at my new EV news site ElectricRevs.com.

New details emerge as a few Bolt EV packs continue to fail

Well this was fast....

GM issues software update for Bolt EV battery problem

Just a coincidence of timing, I’m sure.

 

[Saghost]

Well this was fast....

GM issues software update for Bolt EV battery problem

Just a coincidence of timing, I’m sure.

Nothing about how the update happens in your article. The Bolt was allegedly capable of OTA updates...

Is this another visit your dealer and hope you're still under warranty case, or have they actually joined the 21st century?

 

[McRat]

Nothing about how the update happens in your article. The Bolt was allegedly capable of OTA updates...

Is this another visit your dealer and hope you're still under warranty case, or have they actually joined the 21st century?

A dealer visit.

GM has issued limited OTA updates for safety systems in the non-infotainment computers beginning in 2013. OnStar started earlier, but I don't remember, but that was pure OnStar functions, not safety or driveline.

So GM has had the tech for quite some time, but GM is more risk adverse than Tesla.

When GM can harden a system that will have an extremely safe and redundant transfer that can check itself, it should migrate.

However, if Tesla has 1 OTA problem per 100,000 US cars, they would have <2. GM since 2013 would have 180 potential lawsuits.