Chevy Bolt - 200 mile range for $30k base price (after incentive)

[mknox]

I think that is another advantage of having a longer range EV, that you can reduce the number of charging cycles, which should lead to less degradation over time.

I was doing that for a bit (charging half as often) but I have heard that the batteries prefer more "shallow" charge cycles over less frequent "deep" ones. In other words, it's better for the battery to top up whenever you can.

 

[techmaven]

According to plugshare you could do it today, provided you take one overnight stop.

If they add another SAE Combo CCS between Redding and Salem by 2017 it looks like you'll be able to non stop provided you really want to spend 24 hours driving 1,135 miles.

(I'll point out, however, that's not what ecarfan's post said...)

Bridging a 376 mile gap with a single CCS? Even if was perfectly placed, that would be 188 miles. There would be plenty of circumstances where even a Model S 60 kWh with 208 EPA mile range would struggle making 188 miles in a single jump. Even a S85 would struggle if there was enough wind, sufficient elevation change, or if it was cold enough.

Also, 80% in 45 minutes is not particularly great if this is a NCM variant.

BTW, the CCS in Redding, CA is apparently a single plug with 24 kW and costs $0.25/kWh and $0.14 per minute parking. Of course, the ones in Salem, like the Greenlots CCS is 62.5kW, which really will means it starts charging at about 45 kW. Which means that in 45 minutes, it will have really transferred about 30-33 kWh, or maybe 120 or so miles of real world range.

 

[MileHighMotoring]

I was doing that for a bit (charging half as often) but I have heard that the batteries prefer more "shallow" charge cycles over less frequent "deep" ones. In other words, it's better for the battery to top up whenever you can.

I've read repeatedly that a charge cycle is basically full depletion and full charge - so in a hypothetical world, if it's rated for 1,000 cycles, that's 1,000 full discharges and full charges. So if you deplete halfway and recharge, that's half a cycle. You can effectively do that 2,000 times. If you deplete to 40% and charge up to 80%, that's 4/10 of a cycle. That sort of thing. Of course, we all know that batteries don't like being charged to 100% and absolutely detest being depleted too low as well, but that's my understanding of a charging cycle. So - you're not "using up" battery cycles by charging more often or using and charging less each time.

Which is an overly verbose way of saying that I agree with you. Frequent non-deep use and charging is best for the battery. I leave mine at about 60-70% max charge and plug it in before it gets to 90 miles remaining (~ 30-35%)

 

[scaesare]

Bridging a 376 mile gap with a single CCS? Even if was perfectly placed, that would be 188 miles. There would be plenty of circumstances where even a Model S 60 kWh with 208 EPA mile range would struggle making 188 miles in a single jump. Even a S85 would struggle if there was enough wind, sufficient elevation change, or if it was cold enough.

Also, 80% in 45 minutes is not particularly great if this is a NCM variant.

BTW, the CCS in Redding, CA is apparently a single plug with 24 kW and costs $0.25/kWh and $0.14 per minute parking. Of course, the ones in Salem, like the Greenlots CCS is 62.5kW, which really will means it starts charging at about 45 kW. Which means that in 45 minutes, it will have really transferred about 30-33 kWh, or maybe 120 or so miles of real world range.

Well, if somebody's going to cherry pick a corner-case of driving practically the entire length of the country North-to-South as an example of why the infrastructure is deficient 2 years prior the car even being introduced, then I get to cherry pick the location that would make that route work. :wink:

But you know what? I wouldn't want to do that non stop in my S 85 even with Superchargers everywhere.. Heck, I drove ~525 miles each way for a trip 2 weeks ago, and I broke it up with an overnighter on each leg as I didn't want to drive & charge for 12 hours straight each way.

And if folks want to be pedantic, I can point out a whole slew of routes that the S can't travel today via Supercharger either.

So, seriously, nobody is saying the Bolt (or Model 3, or S, or Leaf) has to be the end-all-be-all for every use case. Clearly they aren't. But for the vast majority of what folks need to do, 100 miles and a relatively modest L2 charger fits the bill. Make it 200 miles and throw in some DCFC capability and you are even closer yet.

For the folks considering a $35K Leaf, why in the world wouldn't you consider a $37.5K Bolt?

 

[eloder]

Are they the only vehicle for the entire family? They make fantastic commuter cars but most people wouldn't consider a 60-80 mile BEV for their only vehicle.

A Leaf is my only car.

I don't buy a 15-seater van for the 1% of the time that I need to move. Why would I buy a road trip capable car for the 1% of the time (less than that) I'd travel longer when I'm typically flying and renting a car anyways?

For the folks considering a $35K Leaf, why in the world wouldn't you consider a $37.5K Bolt?

I would, but if Leaf comes out with a similar offering, I'd rather take the Leaf for a number of reasons.

Of course, Model 3 will still be my number one choice (unless the next-gen electric smart is really low cost and has ~100 miles range).

 

[TexasEV]

I was doing that for a bit (charging half as often) but I have heard that the batteries prefer more "shallow" charge cycles over less frequent "deep" ones. In other words, it's better for the battery to top up whenever you can.

Another way of saying "A connected Model S is a happy Model S", which used to be on a card in each car at delivery.
How many ways do owners have to be reminded that the owners manual says to keep the car plugged in when possible? In bold. Several times.

 

[JRP3]

I think you're looking at charging cycles wrong. A full charging cycle is from empty to full. Other than that, it is not a true cycle but only partial. And we know from the studies that partial cycles, and shallower discharge before recharging, extends battery life. So more charging at shallower cycles is better than less charging at deeper cycles. See the information at the link below, where I got the following chart, for example:

How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries - Battery University



Discharge cycles
Table 2: Cycle life as a function of
depth of discharge
A partial discharge reduces stress and prolongs battery life. Elevated temperature and high currents also affect cycle life.

Depth of Discharge Charging Cycles
100% DoD 300 – 500
50% DoD 1,200 – 1,500
25% DoD 2,000 – 2,500
10% DoD 3,750 – 4,700

Lets say that's a 200 mile pack, and lets use the higher number for simplicity. The miles per pack lifetime would look like this:

100% DoD 300 – 500 100,000 miles
50% DoD 1,200 – 1,500 150,000 miles
25% DoD 2,000 – 2,500 125,000 miles
10% DoD 3,750 – 4,700 94,000 miles

Now realize that chart is just an estimated approximation, but if it's accurate a 50% DOD would be the way to get the most miles from a pack.

 

[techmaven]

So, seriously, nobody is saying the Bolt (or Model 3, or S, or Leaf) has to be the end-all-be-all for every use case. Clearly they aren't. But for the vast majority of what folks need to do, 100 miles and a relatively modest L2 charger fits the bill. Make it 200 miles and throw in some DCFC capability and you are even closer yet.

For the folks considering a $35K Leaf, why in the world wouldn't you consider a $37.5K Bolt?

Sure... but the 2017/2018 timeframe, a potential $35k BEV purchaser is going to evaluate the charging networks. It's not a lot of time for CCS to truly catch up in a real way with Tesla's Supercharger network. It's not just where, but how many plugs, what it costs, how fast does it really charge, etc. They haven't yet revised the CCS combo 1 plug to go above 200 amps, so that places a top end limit on BEVs. At up to about 50kWh, the existing 200 amp limitation might be ok. Above that, the plug standard itself becomes the bottleneck instead of the charging c-rate of the battery. This is one of the reasons why I think the Bolt has closer to a 50 kWh battery than a 60 kWh battery.

 

[stopcrazypp]

I think the Bolt will sell the 30k annual volume GM plans with the given price and body style, even with the CCS charging limitations. As an alternative to the current Leaf (not necessarily next-gen Leaf, which might be a whole other ball game), it'll do fine.

But it won't be enough to advance EVs to the next stage, like the 100k+ volume Tesla is planning with the Model 3.

25kW/50kW CCS/CHAdeMO is not enough, at minimum it needs to be 90kW and the network needs to grow. The 90kW/120kW is the what makes roadtrips viable on the supercharger network. Even a common route like SF to LA isn't really covered well by CCS (have to take 101 and too many are only 24kW).

 

[electracity]

...............This is one of the reasons why I think the Bolt has closer to a 50 kWh battery than a 60 kWh battery.

I do too. The reason to build yet another EV clowncar is a smaller battery. They be crazy for the Bolt to look like it does and also need a 60kwh battery.

 

[S'toon]

Chevy should have chosen a regular car look for the Bolt too.

Chevy is just using the GM Gamma G2SC platform for the Bolt. It's the same platform as the next generation Sonic and Opel Corsa F will use.

 

[electracity]

Chevy is just using the GM Gamma G2SC platform for the Bolt. It's the same platform as the next generation Sonic and Opel Corsa F will use.

Is Opel selling the Bolt?

 

[S'toon]

Is Opel selling the Bolt?

Apparently in small numbers.

http://europe.autonews.com/article/...-may-be-sold-as-an-opel-in-europe-sources-say

http://insideevs.com/chevrolet-bolt-sold-limited-quantities-opel-badge-europe/

 

[Krugerrand]

A Leaf is my only car.

I don't buy a 15-seater van for the 1% of the time that I need to move. Why would I buy a road trip capable car for the 1% of the time (less than that) I'd travel longer when I'm typically flying and renting a car anyways?

A logical and rational person such as yourself makes this decision, however, there are quite a few people who've used the - I can't do this or do that outlier trip, therefore EVs are useless to me - argument. I've read literally hundreds of those arguments around the Internet. The fact is that a lot of people will think of that once a year trip that they make, when they pee in a bottle so as not to have to stop, as a valid reason for not considering an EV. There are many other variations to that story that prevent people from considering all sorts of possible solutions. That's just how mankind rolls.

 

[electracity]

A logical and rational person such as yourself makes this decision, however, there are quite a few people who've used the - I can't do this or do that outlier trip, therefore EVs are useless to me - argument. I've read literally hundreds of those arguments around the Internet. The fact is that a lot of people will think of that once a year trip that they make, when they pee in a bottle so as not to have to stop, as a valid reason for not considering an EV. There are many other variations to that story that prevent people from considering all sorts of possible solutions. That's just how mankind roles.

We should see a societal change more favorable to EV in coastal california first. When an EV works well for a friend it is no longer a theory.

- - - Updated - - -

Apparently in small numbers.

http://europe.autonews.com/article/...-may-be-sold-as-an-opel-in-europe-sources-say

http://insideevs.com/chevrolet-bolt-sold-limited-quantities-opel-badge-europe/

I hope the Volt can return to Europe, especially considering the increase concern about diesel.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Chevy is just using the GM Gamma G2SC platform for the Bolt. It's the same platform as the next generation Sonic and Opel Corsa F will use.

The body style however is based on the Chevy Trax (a mini-CUV) which does not sell as well as the Sonic.

 

[S'toon]

The body style however is based on the Chevy Trax (a mini-CUV) which does not sell as well as the Sonic.

As I said previously in the thread I don't love it, and I don't hate it. It's "meh." I wouldn't mind driving it.

 

[Jeff N]

New longish blog post on the Bolt with some interesting details.

2017 Chevrolet Bolt EV: Bold Predictions, Details of GM-LG Tie-Up – News – Car and Driver | Car and Driver Blog

 

[AZ_Doug]

The body style however is based on the Chevy Trax (a mini-CUV) which does not sell as well as the Sonic.

$$$'s trump style for many people. See Nissan Leaf for reference (#2 ugliest car ever next to it's predecessor...the Corvair).

 

[S'toon]

New longish blog post on the Bolt with some interesting details.

2017 Chevrolet Bolt EV: Bold Predictions, Details of GM-LG Tie-Up –Â*News –Â*Car and Driver | Car and Driver Blog

Interesting article. First interior shots I've seen. I hope that's just the concept, because I don't like the interior looks.

My main concern with a potential Bolt purchase is the same concern I have with the Model 3. As a matter of fact, the nearest SAE 1772 combo charger is further away from here than the nearest Tesla supercharger. So road trips are even more out of the question right now in the Bolt than they are in any Tesla.