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Chevy Bolt - 200 mile range for $30k base price (after incentive)
- Thread starter FredTMC
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- bolt chevy Electric Vehicles review
Krugerrand
Meow
Okay, but does it? I don't think the Bolt positions them well at all and I explained why a couple pages ago. It will only match Tesla on two metrics, range and price. The 'price' is the killer for the Bolt. People will very quickly realize they get way more car for the same money, even if the Bolt is fully loaded at 35k AFTER incentives and the Model 3 is bare bones at 35k BEFORE incentives. All a person has to do is some simple incentives math and add a few options to the Model 3 and voila...same price and even more car for the money.
At 15-20k the Bolt is compelling. Even at 25k it's decent. At 35k AFTER incentives - not so much.
Certainly good points.
It may also be the only thing on the market with that range that doesn't cost nearly 6 digits for a year. Economics says you don't reduce price when you don't have competition. Who know's what they'll do when the Model 3 hits.
It may also be the only thing on the market with that range that doesn't cost nearly 6 digits for a year. Economics says you don't reduce price when you don't have competition. Who know's what they'll do when the Model 3 hits.
jeffro01
Active Member
For me personally, and I realize I'm likely in the minority here overall, I'd pay more for a Tesla to not have to step foot on a single car dealership lot vs buying something like the Bolt. Until Chevy can figure out a way to decouple itself from that layer that is so dishonest, dirty, and sleazy, I'll simply refuse to look at them as a viable competitor. Unfortunately for me, I don't see anything in the near to distant future that suggests GM will be able to sell a car directly to me with no legally required middle man... Economics plays into this though as our '13 Volt will likely be supplanted by another Volt when the time is right as we likely can't swing a Model S and Model X lease simultaneously.
Jeff
Jeff
RobStark
Well-Known Member
And by the time the Bolt EV hits dealership lots Tesla will likely have 100k plus reservations for the Model 3.
Inevitably there will be people who need a car TODAY but many will see vids on the Model 3 prototype reveal and peruse Tesla's website looking at specifications.
The first people to seriously consider buying the Bolt EV will not be low information consumers buying a Bolt EV on a whim while on a visit to their friendly local Chevrolet dealership.
Krugerrand
Meow
That's not true. Used Model S's already exist for way under 6 digits. Yes, I know it's a much bigger car, but it goes to your range point. Granted there are still a lot of people unaware of Tesla and what's coming and far more familiar with GM that the Bolt will sell at the current advertised price. But for anyone who does just a bit of EV digging, the Model 3 is going to look like a steal all day long, every day.
Why?
It wouldn't be surprising if the Bolt initially is a money loser on a COGS basis without factoring in R&D costs. Why should GM lose more money on it?
Krugerrand
Meow
You're absolutely right, except that we're talking an entirely unique situation in that there are no other 200+ mile range EVs available. That has been incentive for a number of people. There have been many stories on this forum of CPO cars getting bought from right under the nose of another buyer - the time it takes to refresh the computer screen.
You're definitely right in that Leaf has done a lot of damage to the mass market, long-term perception of EVs, too.
Just look at how popular opinion relates to battery longevity and capacity lost. Thanks to the Leaf, people assume that Tesla and other EV batteries lose 5% capacity per year at a minimum even though that degradation is unique only to batteries with no proper temperature management system, and even though mostly affects hot climate cars.
However the Leaf hasn't really been advertised or pushed heavily. It's not thrust into the forefront of the minds of consumers as the Bolt seemingly will be as a "complete" gas car replacement. But at the same time their dealer network seems much more willing to educate themselves and take care of Leaf owners (even in the EV wasteland that is central Ohio, I've been satisfied with my dealer experience v. doing the same with Mercedes and exploring with the Volt).
The Leaf also isn't trying to compare itself to Tesla or the Model 3, which I think is the #1 EV maker in the public's eye (from those who know anything about EVs). Nissan also has a very hard commitment to EVs, with plans to make a substantial portion of their sales BEV by 2020. GM on the other hand still seems, at least in my opinion, half-heartedly contributing to the EV movement. Nissan also has a commitment to build out lvl3 charging networks, even if they're primarily bound to dealerships and not ideal for road trips. So Nissan is actively working to fix things and I expect them to probably be the #2 player in the EV field as time progresses, and so far I think they're moving on the right path.
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JRP3
Hyperactive Member
adiggs
Well-Known Member
This dynamic, of avoiding the dealerships, is I believe important to Tesla's competitive position. That's for the investor forum.
For the spread of sustainable transport, the dealerships are the actual customers of the auto manufacturers, and are a significant impediment to adoption of sustainable transport (with you being one instance of how many people feel about dealing with that system). Until the auto dealers financial interests are aligned with you and I, the consumers of autos, the manufacturers are going to have a problem building and selling BEVs for the mass market. I really don't have any good ideas for how to break that logjam, at least in the US, except for Tesla to get so big that they start putting other manufacturers out of business and by extension, the dealerships that are tied up with those manufacturers.
OK, well the Spark and the Leaf have essentially the same range... and the Spark is significantly cheaper new, much less used, but I see far more Leafs[1] on the road. So the idea of a car with specific range being priced at a specific point new despite used car competition, even in the BEV world, is already covered ground.
So, at least for my comments I'm comparing new-for-new, despite the given exstence of a secondary market that will always compete.
[1] Leaves?
Canuck
Well-Known Member
Yes, it came from the Leaf. The range is wholly inadequate and it's ugly as a bug, as my daughters say -- but the looks have grown on us. The average "commute" numbers Nissan uses to claim the range is adequate for the vast majority of commuters fails to take into account that many people like to go out after work. If so, you won't be going very far in your Leaf, especially in winter, and that's not even dealing with capacity bar losses, which happen much sooner than expected.
The Leaf is great for keeping my teenage daughters close to home, and for getting them to school, dance, etc. But it's not ready for prime time as a person's only vehicle.
Tesla changed the game when it comes to electric vehicles but the rap against them has always been cost. That will change with the Model 3. Nissan needs to double the range on the Leaf, at a minimum, to make it a practical car. Hopefully, the Bolt will come out of the gate with at least 200 miles of range. That is the minimum acceptable for most people's commutes and their drives after the commute which Nissan neglects in their calculations.
Ha! Kinda like the Toronto Maple Leafs. "It is called "The Toronto Maple Leafs", not Leaves, because in the war, there was an elite group of Canadian soldiers called the "Leafs" not leaves, for some odd reason."
LEAFs -- It's an acronym (Leading Environmentally-friendly Affordable Family car)
And even if you don't buy that (it's apparently a backronym), then it's still a proper noun and the plural would be Leafs (The virtual linguist: Nissan Leafs or Leaves?)
mknox
Well-Known Member
My first home I bought in the early '80's had central air conditioning by Chrysler and my mortgage was with GE.
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Pardon? Elon has always said that the primary goal of Tesla is to accelerate the adoption of EVs... even if at Tesla's detriment.
I think the Bolt won't sell 30k in 2017 with current gas prices. Chevy should have chosen a regular car look for the Bolt too. The new Volt is probably a better option for many people. Most people would be driving the Volt all battery most days.
2016 Chevrolet Volt Review - AutoGuide.com News
2016 Chevrolet Volt Review - AutoGuide.com News
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