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Chevy Bolt - 200 mile range for $30k base price (after incentive)
- Thread starter FredTMC
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- bolt chevy Electric Vehicles review
Yes! I picked it up late Friday and gave a presentation on it the next morning at the Silicon Valley Electric Auto Association monthly chapter meeting.
Friday was my first time driving one since I resisted test driving it earlier for fear it would just further raise my impatience and delivery anxiety.
Everything was pretty much as expected based on my prior research. Great car so far.
Check this link, and look at the 4 "Battery pack lab testing results":
2015 Kia Soul EV | Advanced Vehicle Testing Activity
Heat capacity of water is 62.1 BTU/°F/ft^3.
Heat capacity of air is 0.018 BTU/°F/ft^3.
So 343 times better.
Thank you kindly.
It isn't something widely known. There are inklings about it from various Kia Soul EV forums, especially the threads where they get into the BMS reporting data. That's where I was looking at first and it was pretty alarming. The Kia Soul EV has the highest energy density NMC cells before the most current generation of packs... the 30+ kWh i3 and Leaf packs for instance. But as @RubberToe pointed to, the bench testing at the INL AVT shows 9-12% degradation in merely 12,000 miles. This data was recently published, even though the test date was a year ago. We expect some early degradation... 3-5% is pretty normal and then we expect it to level off. But we expect that by 12,000 miles, it doesn't still continue to degrade that way and it confirms some of the alarming anecdotal reports. The INL AVT tests by pulling the pack off the car and directly measuring, so it is far more reliable and interesting than just getting the vehicle's own "massaged" data. From the vehicle history reports, these 4 Kia Soul EVs have had their air conditioning turned on for about half the time, but average ambient temp is not reported. I wouldn't put it all on thermal issues, this is NMC chemistry and has its own characteristics. Interestingly enough, Tesla/Panasonic's NCA cells actually do quite well in terms of cycle life in hot temps (60 degrees C, or 140 degrees F).
Now, the degradation is only just hitting the nominal capacity... in other words, an owner only "sees" about 27 kWh of pack capacity and there is a hold back from the 30.4 kWh they start at. Now, after 12,000+ miles, the actual pack capacity is 27 kWh on those test vehicles. I'm not sure if the BMS is "hiding" the degradation from the user, but the next data point is going to be very telling.
brucet999
Active Member
I think you may be overestimating the Tesla halo effect for Model 3. For the Roadster there were a small number of well-off people who were first adopters and believers in BEVs, and they endured many early stumbles, even a price increase. For Model S, there remained a cachet of prestige and the first really practical and beautiful 5-passenger electric car capable of road trips. Early S owners were patient with Tesla's odd interior choices and various recalled components. Many of us, in buying a MS, have stretched ourselves to buy above the price level we might have done for an ICE car.
Model 3 buyers will not be first adopters or early adopters, willing to overlook the many oddities of Tesla. Beyond the first 400,000 BEV enthusiasts who couldn't afford Model S, most will be sort of "commodity buyers" who will expect the same level of features as Toyota, Honda, Ford and Chevrolet, even low-end Lexus, offer. To bring them onboard, I think Tesla has to avoid bad press at the initial release.
Odd interior choices and various recalled components? I'm an early S owner and don't know what you're referring to.
brucet999
Active Member
Lack of door storage bins, cup holders, seat-back pockets, etc.; things that people have become accustomed to for 15 years or more.
Door handles famously failed frequently on early Model S cars. Rubber seals around the little forward window in the front doors caused annoying air leaks. Pano roofs leaked, failed to close properly, moveable glass portion chattered at speed. Mis-aligned rear hatches caused noise problems, tail lights collected water inside them, etc. Air suspension models encountered severe tire wear from alignment problems. Most notoriously, drive units had to be replaced for gear noise and other problems with some owners going through as many as three DUs. All these were replaced or repaired under warranty, sometimes when owners hadn't even noticed the problems, but their cars were in the service centers much more often than industry average, causing Consumers Union to downrate reliability to below average.
Got to do a quick test drive of a Bolt tonight at an EV event. It seems like an ok car. Definitely not a confidence inspiring feel or handling like a Tesla, but had some decent pep (especially compared to other non-Tesla EVs). Seemed like it was front heavy, and did a couple turns I would do for fun without thinking in the Model S, that were not quite scary, but certainly not fun in the Bolt. Felt well composed and comfortable when driving normal, but as soon as I got into the accelerator a bit 
. Tires didn't seem up to the task, maybe it would be a different experience with better tires. Although the Model S drives really nicely with either the 19inch all season tires, or the 21 summers I've had on.
If the Model 3 handles like I think it will (like a slightly smaller Model S, with a well-balanced, RWD focused, premium car feel) I think the Bolt will be a hard sell for those who enjoy the driving experience. Overall, didn't like it very much. The Model S drives nicely, and is predictable and confidence inspiring. Didn't get that feeling with the Bolt. Maybe if the base price was 25k I'd pick one up. But it is too close in price to a base Model 3 for me to consider, especially after driving it. Really made me appreciate how good of a car the Model S is -- I guess I thought that there was going to be something inherently compelling about a large battery EV, and that having a powerful battery positioned low would be a winning combo. Sounds dumb typing it out, but I guess it is just like a gas car: you can have a compelling, fun to drive gas car, and a not very good handling gas car. Same with EV. Think I was expecting more because it shared some qualities with the Tesla (large battery positioned low, with instant EV torque). The regen in low was nice, and was kinda cool that it would come to a stop with just regen.
. Tires didn't seem up to the task, maybe it would be a different experience with better tires. Although the Model S drives really nicely with either the 19inch all season tires, or the 21 summers I've had on.If the Model 3 handles like I think it will (like a slightly smaller Model S, with a well-balanced, RWD focused, premium car feel) I think the Bolt will be a hard sell for those who enjoy the driving experience. Overall, didn't like it very much. The Model S drives nicely, and is predictable and confidence inspiring. Didn't get that feeling with the Bolt. Maybe if the base price was 25k I'd pick one up. But it is too close in price to a base Model 3 for me to consider, especially after driving it. Really made me appreciate how good of a car the Model S is -- I guess I thought that there was going to be something inherently compelling about a large battery EV, and that having a powerful battery positioned low would be a winning combo. Sounds dumb typing it out, but I guess it is just like a gas car: you can have a compelling, fun to drive gas car, and a not very good handling gas car. Same with EV. Think I was expecting more because it shared some qualities with the Tesla (large battery positioned low, with instant EV torque). The regen in low was nice, and was kinda cool that it would come to a stop with just regen.
Got to do a quick test drive of a Bolt tonight at an EV event. It seems like an ok car. Definitely not a confidence inspiring feel or handling like a Tesla, but had some decent pep (especially compared to other non-Tesla EVs). Seemed like it was front heavy, and did a couple turns I would do for fun without thinking in the Model S, that were not quite scary, but certainly not fun in the Bolt. Felt well composed and comfortable when driving normal, but as soon as I got into the accelerator a bit
If the Model 3 handles like I think it will (like a slightly smaller Model S, with a well-balanced, RWD focused, premium car feel) I think the Bolt will be a hard sell for those who enjoy the driving experience. Overall, didn't like it very much. The Model S drives nicely, and is predictable and confidence inspiring. Didn't get that feeling with the Bolt. Maybe if the base price was 25k I'd pick one up. But it is too close in price to a base Model 3 for me to consider, especially after driving it. Really made me appreciate how good of a car the Model S is -- I guess I thought that there was going to be something inherently compelling about a large battery EV, and that having a powerful battery positioned low would be a winning combo. Sounds dumb typing it out, but I guess it is just like a gas car: you can have a compelling, fun to drive gas car, and a not very good handling gas car. Same with EV. Think I was expecting more because it shared some qualities with the Tesla (large battery positioned low, with instant EV torque). The regen in low was nice, and was kinda cool that it would come to a stop with just regen.
Remember, you are comparing a $37k car to a car that starts at $70k (and goes all the way up past $150k), or almost double the price. The fact the Bolt can even remain in the conversation is a statement.
Reeler
Decade of Pure EV Driving
I thought the M3 had full L5 autonomy so the driving experience will be a thing of the past?
My Bolt with Fed/state incentives is about $25K before tax/title/delivery. I think most will not get the Federal tax incentive on the M3.
JohnSnowNW
Active Member
The only reason it can remain in the conversation is solely that it's a 200+ mile BEV, and people are forcing a comparison.
That's not to say it's not a good vehicle, but it's not amazing just because the choices in the BEV segment are limited.
The Model 3 also has a radio, so the silent driving experience will be a thing of the past.
Far more people will get the tax incentive on the Model 3 than the Bolt. Could be ten times more.
Thank you kindly.
List the 4 Best BEVs sold in the US today.
I'd say:
Tesla Model S
Tesla Model X
Bolt EV
i3 BMW
Now list the MSRP of a white one, stripped.
The Model 3 also has a radio, so the silent driving experience will be a thing of the past.
Far more people will get the tax incentive on the Model 3 than the Bolt. Could be ten times more.
Thank you kindly.
Was your Magic 8 Ball signed by Elon Musk, or did you just grab one off the shelf at Walmart?
scottf200
Well-Known Member
That is not clear. Could be a lot of Model S and X sales before the Model 3 comes out. 135K with Model X ramping up.
InsideEVs site: When Will The $7,500 US Credit Expire For The Tesla Model 3...And Everyone Else?
JohnSnowNW
Active Member
True. What he's stating is that if the M3 meets the current production timeline, Tesla will be making A LOT more M3's than GM will be making Bolts, and therefore more M3's will qualify.That is not clear. Could be a lot of Model S and X sales before the Model 3 comes out. 135K with Model X ramping up.
InsideEVs site: When Will The $7,500 US Credit Expire For The Tesla Model 3...And Everyone Else?
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