Chevy Bolt - 200 mile range for $30k base price (after incentive)

[Cyclone]

My family sold Chevy. The cheapest VW had more comfortable seats than a Caprice!

The seats in my EOS weren't bad. I think I would rate them above my Toyota 4Runner. My S with the original seats are good, but the new X-style seats in the S are my favorite of all I've sat in by far!

 

[AndY1]

Original seats in Model S were bad. They had no side support and seat heaters were even worse, which were heating only at certain seat spots and not evenly over the surface of the seat.

Meanwhile, leather seats in my Ampera are great. Great side support and evenly distributed heating.

 

[McRat]

The Volt's battery pack and overall battery system has a very different design than the Bolt. It has a completely different battery chemistry and completely different buffer level. It is optimized completely differently. For example, the 2013 Volt's battery pack only exposed 10.9 kWh out of the 16.5 kWh nominal capacity, or a buffer of 34%. Idaho National Labs AVT testing shows 9% degradation over the testing mileage of 128,774 miles:

https://avt.inl.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/phev/batteryVolt4313.pdf

With 15.1 kWh capacity still remaining, there is no outward visible loss of capacity since only 10.9 kWh is exposed.

The Bolt, however, has a far smaller buffer. We don't quite yet know the real nominal capacity on the Bolt yet though. But likely the buffer is likely around 6-8%, not 34%. And the chemistry is completely different, optimized for specific energy instead of power density. We really don't know yet the life cycle performance of the Bolt's battery pack. One inkling is the very conservative DCFC rate. I suspect that is to try to preserve battery lifecycle. As for much faster DCFC, especially with the taper kicking below 125 amps at 53-54% SOC, there's not much hope that it will take a lot more amps than 160.

And yet you don't know. Theories are not a substitute for testing. You start with targets, you engineer to the targets, you report the projected performance, but then you always test. And then your customers test.

So far, the best theory is the Bolt is 64kWh, or the same size of buffer as the 2016+ Volt. A kWh travels X miles, whether it's inside the operational window or in the buffer.

This is where the Ioniq really shines. Its top notch energy efficiency requires less Wh/mile than the either Model S or Bolt EV, cutting down on the charge time required on trips.

The Ioniq also has good support for > 125 Amp DC charging, as seen in Bjørn's video. This probably makes it the champion of non-Tesla EVs for shortest charge times required on trips.

GSP

Again, without user testing, the efficiency and range numbers on the Hyundai are not useful yet.

I made a roundtrip last night in an EPA 53mi AER car, mostly freeway, to attend a EV focus group. When I returned home, this is what it recorded:

This 73.4mi trip was not on level ground, and was done with the ACC set at 65mph, but traffic speed was 45 to 65.
Altitude was 50' at destination, and 810' at home, with 2 terrain hills in the middle.
AC was on. The HOLD button was not used. Normal mode operation.

No hypermiling (drafting, using Neutral, impeding traffic) was used.

Lifetime MPGe was affected by long trips and some high speed (90-101mph) travel on previous trips, as well as some closed course competition events.

I have exceeded these numbers by hypermiling. 68.x miles of EV, and 69mpg on gas. (EPA is 42mpg gas, 106mpge on EV).

 

[Cyclone]

Original seats in Model S were bad. They had no side support and seat heaters were even worse, which were heating only at certain seat spots and not evenly over the surface of the seat.

Meanwhile, leather seats in my Ampera are great. Great side support and evenly distributed heating.

Odd. Videos of using FLIRs show that the original seats heat the entire surface, but next-gen seats do not heat the bolstered areas. The next-gen bolstering is too much for my frame. It pushes my shoulders forward such that I'm either curled and seated properly, or I'm roughly flat-backed and thus, my back is ahead of the seat rather than on the seat surface.

Standard Seat (front seats) =

Next-Gen seat...

Here's an IR photo of the Next Gen driver seat in my car after a 20 minute drive home on setting 3. Car temp was 43F when I got in, cabin temp set to 74F.

View attachment 102977.

 

[bro1999]

Chevy Bolt EV tested by Tesla Model S owner: his assessment

Seems like a pretty fair assessment of a Bolt by a Tesla owner. Here are the highlights:

• Says Bolt is easier to get into than his Tesla, and has more leg/headroom in the rear than his Tesla.
• Bolt shows more energy details than his Tesla
• Rear vision camera in the rear view mirror is a coup
• Says his Tesla doesn't have a "Sport" mode like the Bolt....but doesn't it have Insane mode? Not sure his point there.

• says putting the Bolt into Park is "needlessly fussy". Uh, dude, you press the "P" button and that's it.
  
• The Bolt's 20% on paper efficiency advantage over his Model S bears out in real life too
• Says Bolt has 0 autonomous features, but it actually does have lane keep assist, emergency auto braking, low speed pedestrian braking, etc. Maybe he tested a LT unit
• Bolt makes all other non-Tesla BEVs obsolete
  
• No Supercharging network big negative
• Says he "loved the Bolt", but will keep his Model 3 reservation. But if he were way down the reservation list, he would entertain getting a Bolt

 

[scaesare]

Chevy Bolt EV tested by Tesla Model S owner: his assessment

Seems like a pretty fair assessment of a Bolt by a Tesla owner. Here are the highlights:

• Says Bolt is easier to get into than his Tesla, and has more leg/headroom in the rear than his Tesla.
• Bolt shows more energy details than his Tesla
• Rear vision camera in the rear view mirror is a coup
• Says his Tesla doesn't have a "Sport" mode like the Bolt....but doesn't it have Insane mode? Not sure his point there.

• says putting the Bolt into Park is "needlessly fussy". Uh, dude, you press the "P" button and that's it.
  
• The Bolt's 20% on paper efficiency advantage over his Model S bears out in real life too
• Says Bolt has 0 autonomous features, but it actually does have lane keep assist, emergency auto braking, low speed pedestrian braking, etc. Maybe he tested a LT unit
• Bolt makes all other non-Tesla BEVs obsolete
  
• No Supercharging network big negative
• Says he "loved the Bolt", but will keep his Model 3 reservation. But if he were way down the reservation list, he would entertain getting a Bolt

I initially rated your post informative... then read the article and felt compelled to rescind my rating. Here's the items in the other direction you opted not to include:

• The Bolt’s touch screen is no match for Tesla’s dazzler, of course..
• There’s no Nav system in the Bolt..., I missed that gorgeous 17-inch map display I’ve become accustomed to in the Model S.
• Unlike the Tesla, the Bolt has one of those antiquated oddities, the On /Off button. Amazingly, no other manufacturer has adopted Tesla’s brilliantly simple idea that the car turns itself on when there’s a butt in the driver’s seat and a foot on the brake pedal.
• the front seat area doesn’t feel as roomy as the Model S
• the Bolt has a solid, stable feel. Again, not up to the standard of the Model S,
• Unlike the Tesla, the Bolt in L mode has no “idle creep” option
• the Model S, by contrast, regen is blissfully simple
• My drive was too short to generate an accurate efficiency figure
• But despite the Bolt’s breakthrough combination of range and price, the Model 3’s brand cachet, sleek styling, superior performance, long-distance charging, and potential for autonomous capability will eventually make it the clear winner, in my view.

So, on the whole I think it was a balanced article, and the portrays the Bolt rather objectively. I only included the above because you pretty much cherry picked positive comments for most of your points.

 

[bro1999]

I initially rated your post informative... then read the article and felt compelled to rescind my rating. Here's the items in the other direction you opted not to include:

• The Bolt’s touch screen is no match for Tesla’s dazzler, of course..
• There’s no Nav system in the Bolt..., I missed that gorgeous 17-inch map display I’ve become accustomed to in the Model S.
• Unlike the Tesla, the Bolt has one of those antiquated oddities, the On /Off button. Amazingly, no other manufacturer has adopted Tesla’s brilliantly simple idea that the car turns itself on when there’s a butt in the driver’s seat and a foot on the brake pedal.
• the front seat area doesn’t feel as roomy as the Model S
• the Bolt has a solid, stable feel. Again, not up to the standard of the Model S,
• Unlike the Tesla, the Bolt in L mode has no “idle creep” option
• the Model S, by contrast, regen is blissfully simple
• My drive was too short to generate an accurate efficiency figure
• But despite the Bolt’s breakthrough combination of range and price, the Model 3’s brand cachet, sleek styling, superior performance, long-distance charging, and potential for autonomous capability will eventually make it the clear winner, in my view.

So, on the whole I think it was a balanced article, and the portrays the Bolt rather objectively. I only included the above because you pretty much cherry picked positive comments for most of your points.

If you're expecting me to be crushed about your "Informative" withdrawal, sorry.

I wasn't gonna include every single point the reviewer made, otherwise I may have well just posted the whole article.
I did include the one criticism about the Bolt that almost everyone seems to bring up (no SC network). People like you would surely bring up the other points anyways.

 

[JRP3]

Bias exposed...

 

[JohnSnowNW]

If you're expecting me to be crushed about your "Informative" withdrawal, sorry.

I wasn't gonna include every single point the reviewer made, otherwise I may have well just posted the whole article.
I did include the one criticism about the Bolt that almost everyone seems to bring up (no SC network). People like you would surely bring up the other points anyways.

Per usual, your initial post was more in line with posting on the Bolt forum, that you now help administer. So, yes, people on a Tesla forum will point out the glaring omissions.

 

[McRat]

I initially rated your post informative... then read the article and felt compelled to rescind my rating. Here's the items in the other direction you opted not to include:

• The Bolt’s touch screen is no match for Tesla’s dazzler, of course..
• There’s no Nav system in the Bolt..., I missed that gorgeous 17-inch map display I’ve become accustomed to in the Model S.
• Unlike the Tesla, the Bolt has one of those antiquated oddities, the On /Off button. Amazingly, no other manufacturer has adopted Tesla’s brilliantly simple idea that the car turns itself on when there’s a butt in the driver’s seat and a foot on the brake pedal.
• the front seat area doesn’t feel as roomy as the Model S
• the Bolt has a solid, stable feel. Again, not up to the standard of the Model S,
• Unlike the Tesla, the Bolt in L mode has no “idle creep” option
• the Model S, by contrast, regen is blissfully simple
• My drive was too short to generate an accurate efficiency figure
• But despite the Bolt’s breakthrough combination of range and price, the Model 3’s brand cachet, sleek styling, superior performance, long-distance charging, and potential for autonomous capability will eventually make it the clear winner, in my view.

So, on the whole I think it was a balanced article, and the portrays the Bolt rather objectively. I only included the above because you pretty much cherry picked positive comments for most of your points.

The Bolt has OnStar, Carplay, and Android Auto. Have you tried them? As I'm driving a similarly equipped car, a call comes in to the integrated car phone, only work and wife have the number, both know never to call unless it's critical since I do not use a cellphone while driving. My work calls and says the customer I'm headed for cancelled the meeting, but please stop at Widget Inc in Pomona and pick up a drawing and sign an NDA. So without taking my eyes off the road, I get directions from where I'm at to Widget without knowing the address. With all the construction, I have no idea how to get back to work, so I get directions back to the lab. My eyes need never to leave the road.

To each their own, but when traffic is screwed up and people are driving erratically, it's nice to keep your eyes on the road and your hands upon the wheel when you are in unfamiliar areas.

The Bolt does have idle creep mode. It always regens, even below 5 mph, you just don't notice it. What you THINK is a brake pedal is a progressive regen pedal with friction brake ability if necessary.

 

[scaesare]

If you're expecting me to be crushed about your "Informative" withdrawal, sorry.

Perhaps that's the difference. You assume other folks are making personal decisions. I'm trying to make objective ones.

My point in initially rating it informative is because I appreciate objective info on the Bolt. I happen to be "pro" GM's efforts in this regard, as I see it as a significant advance in the EV arena.

My point in mentioning my rescinding my rating it to underscore the idea that specifically omitting objective information isn't helping further the cause... it only makes you look like a fanboi rather than letting the merits of the vehicle speak for itself.

I wasn't gonna include every single point the reviewer made, otherwise I may have well just posted the whole article.
I did include the one criticism about the Bolt that almost everyone seems to bring up (no SC network). People like you would surely bring up the other points anyways.

Good job on the one point.

And with your admission that you deliberately decided to omit negative points from the article you've now the rest of us know how much stock we put in what you say.

 

[scaesare]

The Bolt has OnStar, Carplay, and Android Auto. Have you tried them? As I'm driving a similarly equipped car, a call comes in to the integrated car phone, only work and wife have the number, both know never to call unless it's critical since I do not use a cellphone while driving. My work calls and says the customer I'm headed for cancelled the meeting, but please stop at Widget Inc in Pomona and pick up a drawing and sign an NDA. So without taking my eyes off the road, I get directions from where I'm at to Widget without knowing the address. With all the construction, I have no idea how to get back to work, so I get directions back to the lab. My eyes need never to leave the road.

To each their own, but when traffic is screwed up and people are driving erratically, it's nice to keep your eyes on the road and your hands upon the wheel when you are in unfamiliar areas.

The Bolt does have idle creep mode. It always regens, even below 5 mph, you just don't notice it. What you THINK is a brake pedal is a progressive regen pedal with friction brake ability if necessary.

I wasn't speaking to what wasn't in the article. Simply pointing out the balance to the obviously biased previous posting.

That having been said, those features sound like great "pros". Would have been nice to see them listed in the article. For many folks, I know the lack of Carplay/Android Auto are a con on the Tesla side.

That having been said, the inclusion of some features doesn't preclude mentioning the lack of others. For many, the lack of non-integrated NAV is an issue. By objectively listing both what the car does, and doesn't have, folks can form an informed opinion.

 

[Jeff N]

No Supercharging network big negative

To expand on this, the article said:

It will take many years and hundreds of millions of dollars to match Tesla’s current Supercharger system, which makes long-distance travel practical virtually everywhere in the country.

And at this point, neither Chevy nor anyone else seems to be making a serious effort to even start such a network.

Quite a few EV enthusiasts still think this is true but the outlook has changed a lot in the past 6 months.

New details became available in the last day or so:

VW Reveals Tesla-like EV Charging Plans - HybridCars.com

 

[bro1999]

I initially rated your post informative... then read the article and felt compelled to rescind my rating. Here's the items in the other direction you opted not to include:

• The Bolt’s touch screen is no match for Tesla’s dazzler, of course..
• There’s no Nav system in the Bolt..., I missed that gorgeous 17-inch map display I’ve become accustomed to in the Model S.
• Unlike the Tesla, the Bolt has one of those antiquated oddities, the On /Off button. Amazingly, no other manufacturer has adopted Tesla’s brilliantly simple idea that the car turns itself on when there’s a butt in the driver’s seat and a foot on the brake pedal.
• the front seat area doesn’t feel as roomy as the Model S
• the Bolt has a solid, stable feel. Again, not up to the standard of the Model S,
• Unlike the Tesla, the Bolt in L mode has no “idle creep” option
• the Model S, by contrast, regen is blissfully simple
• My drive was too short to generate an accurate efficiency figure
• But despite the Bolt’s breakthrough combination of range and price, the Model 3’s brand cachet, sleek styling, superior performance, long-distance charging, and potential for autonomous capability will eventually make it the clear winner, in my view.

So, on the whole I think it was a balanced article, and the portrays the Bolt rather objectively. I only included the above because you pretty much cherry picked positive comments for most of your points.

If you're expecting me to be crushed about your "Informative" withdrawal, sorry.

I wasn't gonna include every single point the reviewer made, otherwise I may have well just posted the whole article.
I did include the one criticism about the Bolt that almost everyone seems to bring up (no SC network). People like you would surely bring up the other points anyways.

Perhaps that's the difference. You assume other folks are making personal decisions. I'm trying to make objective ones.

My point in initially rating it informative is because I appreciate objective info on the Bolt. I happen to be "pro" GM's efforts in this regard, as I see it as a significant advance in the EV arena.

My point in mentioning my rescinding my rating it to underscore the idea that specifically omitting objective information isn't helping further the cause... it only makes you look like a fanboi rather than letting the merits of the vehicle speak for itself.



Good job on the one point.

And with your admission that you deliberately decided to omit negative points from the article you've now the rest of us know how much stock we put in what you say.

I also left out quite a few other points that were positive of the Bolt/GM (EV-savvy dealership, easier to get in compared to his S, Android Auto/Apple Carplay ready, reviewer said the Bolt is "so good it will challenge the Model 3" and said it's a "terrific car").

You're looking to pick a fight that simply isn't there.

 

[bro1999]

Per usual, your initial post was more in line with posting on the Bolt forum, that you now help administer. So, yes, people on a Tesla forum will point out the glaring omissions.

Nice to know you lurk at the Bolt forum! Must be a very engaging forum for you.

 

[bro1999]

The 2017 Chevrolet Bolt and the Affordable Electric Car Future

Popular Mechanics reviewer (whose dd is a F-150) likes the Bolt.

 

[JohnSnowNW]

Nice to know you lurk at the Bolt forum! Must be a very engaging forum for you.

I lurk all BEV forums for information. How else are you supposed to get an idea of owner experience?

 

[RobStark]

For Chevy Bolt, discounts here, markups there

Just seven states into Chevrolet's gradual rollout of the Bolt EV, some dealerships already are discounting the car by several thousand dollars, even as others demand a markup above sticker price to take advantage of early demand.

The pricing disparity -- one dealer in Southern California was advertising a Bolt last week for $4,439 less than an identically equipped car at a store 5 miles away -- shows what happens when a new kind of vehicle meets a sprawling, old-line retail network that's only beginning to feel out the market for it.

California dealerships, which got the Bolt first, have been the quickest to mark it down. Fremont Chevrolet, which delivered the first three Bolts to retail customers in mid-December, raised the discounts advertised on its website from $2,000 in February to $3,000 in March. Another Bay Area dealership, Dublin Chevrolet, listed $3,000 discounts. Both were promoting three-year leases starting at about $260 a month, with $3,995 due at the time of sale.

Nationally, the average amount consumers paid below sticker price grew from $1,400 in January, a 3.4 percent discount, to $2,200 in February, a 5.3 percent discount, according to TrueCar.

The Bolts being marked up are generally in more rural areas where there are fewer dealerships and less inventory. Several dealers listing Bolts for as much as $5,000 above sticker price didn't return messages from Automotive News seeking comment.

At Harbor Chevrolet in Long Beach, Calif., all 21 Bolts shown on its website are discounted by at least $1,285. One Bolt Premier is $4,160 off, a nearly 10 percent markdown. Another nearby dealership listed 32 Bolts in its inventory, with two priced at discounts of more than $5,200.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

That sounds like a free market operating.

I don't like the car dealerships in general (let alone monopoly laws on them in some places, those need to go like yesterday), but I am not also naiive enough to think Tesla's single price model would necessarily be the best either.

Tesla too is passing on their distribution/sales costs to the customer (like the dealerships), but without competition between sales locations, there is no incentive for them to drive down such cost premiums - unlike with dealerships that have to compete with each other.

A middle road for this, in the future, might be the best for all.

 

[RobStark]

There is every incentive for Tesla to drive down cost. They want to increase sales and marketshare. Tesla has less than 1% marketshare. It has virtually no pricing power.

Tesla doesn't build palaces to bring in more foot traffic than the next dealership.

The Bolt is a $22k-$25k car selling for between $32k-$49k. To some degree because of the added layer of fixed middle man cost plus middle man margin.