Chevy Bolt - 200 mile range for $30k base price (after incentive)

[electracity]

Tesla published some comparison specs on the Model 3 ...
Tesla says Model 3 will have fewer than 100 configurations to Model S’ more than 1,500

If Musk was confident in his projected Model 3 launch and ramp we would not see this anti-selling.

 

[bro1999]

If Musk was confident in his projected Model 3 launch and ramp we would not see this anti-selling.

That and/or demand for X and S's is really falling off.

Has Tesla issued estimates on full 2017 sales projections yet?

 

[diamond.g]

Yes, although a few people claim to have used EVgo locations that didn't have the 40 minute timeout.

It's an outdated policy that might have made sense for 24 kWh packs but not 50+ kWh packs. As more people complain and more 50+ kWh cars hit the road the 30 minute timer policy will be changed. In the meantime, it's a significant annoyance but it doesn't stop anyone from traveling. Obviously, it's only an issue if you charge more than 30 minutes. I typically alternate 30 and 60 minute charges on EVgo so it's annoying half the time. My ~450 mile drive each way from SF to LA typically involves a single 60 minute EVgo stop.

I don't know of any other DC charge provider doing this so as more ChargePoint, Green Lots, and other sites come on-line there will be added pressure for EVgo to change. It's unlikely the VW's Electrify America will have that problem and they will be installing sites at around the same pace as the first years of Tesla Supercharger installations beginning later this year.

I wonder how that would mesh with the free charging agreements that have been made with some of the car makers (i3 and Leaf come to mind).

If Musk was confident in his projected Model 3 launch and ramp we would not see this anti-selling.

I think this is more to get folks to not wait for a 3.

 

[bro1999]

I wonder how that would mesh with the free charging agreements that have been made with some of the car makers (i3 and Leaf come to mind).

There must be a way for EVgo to code the NC2C card account holders to still restrict charging to 30 minutes, while letting paying members charge for 60 minutes at a time.

Then again, they can't even make an app that gives you real time charging/billing info, so maybe not.

 

[diamond.g]

There must be a way for EVgo to code the NC2C card account holders to still restrict charging to 30 minutes, while letting paying members charge for 60 minutes at a time.

Then again, they can't even make an app that gives you real time charging/billing info, so maybe not.

lol, do they even have enough of a user base to make that kind of thing worthwhile?

 

[stopcrazypp]

If Musk was confident in his projected Model 3 launch and ramp we would not see this anti-selling.

Not following this. Even if the ramp up happens exactly as Tesla is projecting, it'll still take a year for them to get through the backlog. Plenty of reasons to anti-sell. Also, they are coming up to the Q2 rush, another big reason to anti-sell, regardless of how the ramp goes.

 

[Jeff N]

Henry Ford said "pick any color you like, so long as it is black."
Jeff says "pick any long distance route you like, so long as it is SF to LA."

Of course Henry had a pretty good black whereas the SF to LA route is, to use Jeff's wording, "leisurely."
Joking aside, I don't know why Jeff keeps mentioning the future roll-out of CCS to people buying an EV now. Mention it when it exists, and faster than 44 kW.

I've only had the car for four months... So far I have done trips from SF to Sacramento, Fresno, LA, and San Diego via US-101 and CA-99

I haven't had time in my schedule yet to drive substantially north of SF or eastward to Nevada or Utah. Driving up to Oregon, Washington, or BC Canada shouldn't be a problem although many of the charging stations in those areas will be slower 24 kW models put in with past funding from BMW and VW. That will be truly leisurely but certainly possible. The routes south of Sacramento mostly have 40-50 kW chargers and I didn't spend much more time using them than I would have if driving a Model S and stopping at Superchargers -- it still takes the same amount of time to hit Starbucks or eat a nice lunch. Driving to Reno is easy.

Driving to Las Vegas is doable but requires a near-full charge to get between Victorville, CA and Vegas. EVgo should have their new Baker location up and running by the end of summer making that a lot easier. Driving to Utah is still challenging and requires L2 stops at hotels or 14-50 stops at RV parks.

Why would I mention the future rollout of CCS? For the same reason early Tesla customers talked about the future rollout of Superchargers.

 

[Jeff N]

And then tell me how you'd drive from Los Angeles to somewhere like Santa Fe, New Mexico? Or Boulder? Or Mt. Shasta. All trips I've made in the last 18 months.

Those are likely all challenging for a Bolt EV driver today except for Mt. Shasta which should be easy.

Yes, although a few people claim to have used EVgo locations that didn't have the 40 minute timeout.

Typo -- I meant 30 minutes.

 

[SageBrush]

Why would I mention the future rollout of CCS? For the same reason early Tesla customers talked about the future rollout of Superchargers.

There is one teeeeeny difference. An alternative, much better alternative network already exists. The goal posts have moved while GM was wasting its time cooking up its latest CARB and Tesla litigations/political dirty tricks.

 

[stopcrazypp]

There is one teeeeeny difference. An alternative, much better alternative network already exists. The goal posts have moved while GM was wasting its time cooking up its latest CARB and Tesla litigations/political dirty tricks.

Good point. People are going to be comparing today's CCS network to today's SC network.

5 years down the road when CCS is more mature, people are going to compare the CCS network at that time and the SC network at that time (which will obviously be different than today).

The way this might flip is if the pace of CCS development is drastically higher than SC development, but so far no signs this is the case yet. Disappointingly most of the automakers have decided developing the charging network is not their problem (VW's only doing it in such a big way because of the settlement).

 

[electracity]

Not following this. Even if the ramp up happens exactly as Tesla is projecting, it'll still take a year for them to get through the backlog. Plenty of reasons to anti-sell. Also, they are coming up to the Q2 rush, another big reason to anti-sell, regardless of how the ramp goes.

What percent of the deposit holders do you think will configure when their turn comes up? I think maybe half.

 

[Snerruc]

There must be a way for EVgo to code the NC2C card account holders to still restrict charging to 30 minutes, while letting paying members charge for 60 minutes at a time.

Then again, they can't even make an app that gives you real time charging/billing info, so maybe not.

On the Big Island it is $7.75 apparently for as long as it takes for you to charge. I've never been cut off. Since they are partnered with HELCO here, we might be different than elsewhere.

 

[wdolson]

Not following this. Even if the ramp up happens exactly as Tesla is projecting, it'll still take a year for them to get through the backlog. Plenty of reasons to anti-sell. Also, they are coming up to the Q2 rush, another big reason to anti-sell, regardless of how the ramp goes.

Though if Tesla ramps up like they plan to, they will be producing more Model 3s than GM produces Bolts per month within a very short time. GM's planned peak production volume (currently) is only going to be around 2500 a month.

 

[diamond.g]

What percent of the deposit holders do you think will configure when their turn comes up? I think maybe half.

That is still like 150k-200k reservations.

 

[ZsoZso]

What percent of the deposit holders do you think will configure when their turn comes up? I think maybe half.

I would guess somewhere in the range of 98% - 100%.
Why ?
Because even if someone does not want the Model 3, they will be able to sell it right away for a nice profit!
There will be plenty of interested buyers who do not want to wait a year+ to get one and willing to pay extra when the first few are on the road.

 

[electracity]

I would guess somewhere in the range of 98% - 100%.
Why ?
Because even if someone does not want the Model 3, they will be able to sell it right away for a nice profit!
There will be plenty of interested buyers who do not want to wait a year+ to get one and willing to pay extra when the first few are on the road.

Well, it is not 100%. I have a model 3 I may never configure. I had a model X reservation too.

There is a lot of reasons reservation holders will not configure within a couple months of becoming eligible. A lot of model X res. holders didn't configure, IIRC.

 

[Beryl]

I would guess somewhere in the range of 98% - 100%.
Why ?
Because even if someone does not want the Model 3, they will be able to sell it right away for a nice profit!
There will be plenty of interested buyers who do not want to wait a year+ to get one and willing to pay extra when the first few are on the road.

I'm guessing it will be under 80%. There will be people jumping in line as cancellations occur though.

Doubt that I'll configure unless I have a buyer. My Model S will do for me a few more years.

Bolt sales will continue to increase with the Model 3 frenzy and VW EV efforts. This is a good thing.

 

[Jeff N]

"With all the conflicting statements (manual says 80 kW, Opel guy says 50 kW, Bolt engineers via Motortrend say 60 kW), we can all end the speculation by someone just plugging it into the 100 kW CCS Bjorn used to test the Ioniq Electric (<50% SOC).

As far as I know, there are no publicly accessible CCS stations rated above 50 kW. Theoretically, some stations can put out 62.5 kW (500V, 125 amp), but no EV in existence has a HV battery that approaches anywhere near 500V for a nominal voltage.

Another new data point:

Chevy Bolt EV Can Charge at 55 kW - HybridCars.com

"The new report, by the Innovative Vehicle Institute near Montreal, says the Bolt EV can likely charge at up to 55 kilowatts at a current of up to 150A when plugged into future higher-powered chargers."

 

[Saghost]

Another new data point:

Chevy Bolt EV Can Charge at 55 kW - HybridCars.com

"The new report, by the Innovative Vehicle Institute near Montreal, says the Bolt EV can likely charge at up to 55 kilowatts at a current of up to 150A when plugged into future higher-powered chargers."

Well that looks pretty definitive - at least for the ~40% SoC they tried it at (and for the car they had with the firmware it currently has, of course.)

Given how sharply the Bolt tapers, maybe they should have gone lower to see if it'll take more than 150A near the bottom.

 

[Jeff N]

Well that looks pretty definitive - at least for the ~40% SoC they tried it at (and for the car they had with the firmware it currently has, of course.)

Given how sharply the Bolt tapers, maybe they should have gone lower to see if it'll take more than 150A near the bottom.

A person who claimed to be the researcher said on a thread at GM-volt.com that he may go back and redo the testing starting from a much lower initial state of charge.