Chevy Bolt test mule photographed

[caddieo]

All this makes me wonder if it would not have been a better strategic decision to do the Model 3 ahead of the X if indeed TM's future hinges on capturing the mass market (in which case we would have to call it Model 2).

 

[Sosius]

All this makes me wonder if it would not have been a better strategic decision to do the Model 3 ahead of the X if indeed TM's future hinges on capturing the mass market (in which case we would have to call it Model 2).

Good point. I'd hate to think the falcon-wing doors delayed the Model 3 by a year or so. More likely, the delays have been due to the need to bring down battery costs. GM might be able to sell the Bolt at substantial loss, but Tesla can't afford to do so with the 3.

 

[MartinAustin]

The whole "beating Tesla to the punch" and "outpacing" sort of comments... are all missing the point, though we should be calm about it because we live In A World where web news articles are created to get web clicks... the authors couldn't care less how accurate the articles are, or whether people really read them after they have clicked through to get to the article.

As far as Tesla is concerned, "the punch" is causing all other auto manufacturers to join in on the task of replacing the world's fleet of gas/oil-burning cars with BEVs. Tesla has already begun this process. It's impossible to beat them to the punch on it.

Tesla don't care if the Chevy Bolt comes out before the Model 3.

Chevy on the other hand, cares A LOT if their car comes out before the Model 3. They know they have to get their admittedly basic and utilitarian BEV out into the market and gain some sales and mindshare... before the Model 3 arrives and dominates. It'll be hard after March 2016, with plenty of Model S and Model X out on the roads, and the Model 3 causing millions to salivate.

 

[stopcrazypp]

All this makes me wonder if it would not have been a better strategic decision to do the Model 3 ahead of the X if indeed TM's future hinges on capturing the mass market (in which case we would have to call it Model 2).

Other than the publicity and historic significance, I don't think the success really hinges on coming first in release date (esp. talking about such a short time frame). I think whoever hits 100k annual volume first will be labeled the mass market success in the end.

 

[jdevo2004]

I am just happy that electric vehicles are really starting to take off. Almost all the major car companies are working on electric vehicles now just as Elon wanted. I do not understand the fan boys on this forum. Elon wanted electric car competition and it is now starting to happen. This is great news!
Sure the Model 3 will likely be prettier and cooler. Just the fact that Model 3 will have free supercharging sets it above anything other companies can do. This does not mean that other car companies should not try to compete with Tesla. I say the more the merrier and I look forward to all the interesting designs to come!

 

[smac]

Really? You've been a member here since 2013......so have you seen this?

Or read this?
The Car That Could: The Inside Story of GMs Revolutionary Electric Vehicle: Michael Shnayerson: 9780679421054: Amazon.com: Books

:s it matters not if I've seen it.

It matters what the general population of car buyers think, So:
a) No one here ever saw an EV1
b) No one here has even seen a compliance car
c) People still think my car is a Jaguar

My point is whatever brand damage GM has done to EV-ification is moot from a Joe Public sales POV at least here in the UK.

 

[omarsultan]

I don't get the GM hate here--yes they did something sh!tty with the EV1, but I think they have made amends since then:
- The Volt is a good, fun to drive car, every Volt owner I have run across loves their car and GM deserves credit for designing it to appeal to mainstream tastes
- A 200-mile affordable BEV with mass market appeal deserves kudos--whether you like the styling or not, at least they are bringing something viable to market - more than can be said for any other manufacturer including Tesla

As Musk has said, he did not start Tesla to be the next Toyota to to drive exactly this kind of behavior from manufacturers. I hope the Bolt sells like crazy--its good for the entire EV segment, including Tesla.

 

[ggies07]

Im not sure you guys are understanding where im coming from. I think its great there is another affordable BEV coming out, what I don't like is the way they are doing it.

I posted this link a few posts back

Chevrolet Leads Expertise in Electrification

They are not the leaders, we all know that. Who made the first 200+ EV and that was stylish? Who's battery chemistry is the best?

And who is fighting them publicly on direct sales model?

Its simply BS.

But hey, its a small detail in the grand scheme of things, just pisses me off.

 

[ggies07]

:s it matters not if I've seen it.

It matters what the general population of car buyers think, So:
a) No one here ever saw an EV1
b) No one here has even seen a compliance car
c) People still think my car is a Jaguar

My point is whatever brand damage GM has done to EV-ification is moot from a Joe Public sales POV at least here in the UK.

Oh, ok. Well you should definitely read the book and watch the doc.

 

[RubberToe]

First all the nay-sayers that suggested this would never be built, and took pot shots the name, styling, and GM.

Then GM announced they would build it, and all the nay-sayers then said it will never have the promised 200+ mile range, and took pot shots at the name, styling, and GM.

Then GM announced they have 55+ of them running around and getting 200+ mile range and show fast-charging, and the nay-sayers complain about size and lack of frunk, and take pot shots at the name, styling, and GM.


I'm not an apologist for GM, but I've never quite understood the somewhat vehement opposition from many towards this effort.

I doubt the final cosmetic appearance and overall size the Bolt will appeal to me, but the underlying initiative of a mid-priced 200+ mile EV with DC fast charging and a familiar name-badge is awesome. There are a boatload of college-aged/20-somethings for whom this is right in line with what they might want.

As I've said umpteen times: There's room in the market for a variety of offerings... and that's exactly what Elon hoped to spur.

Kudo's to GM... I hope they sell like hotcakes.

+1

This all rings pretty true. Having said that, I still reserve the right to be a total TSLA FanBoi :smile:

RT

 

[scaesare]

Im not sure you guys are understanding where im coming from. I think its great there is another affordable BEV coming out, what I don't like is the way they are doing it.

I posted this link a few posts back

Chevrolet Leads Expertise in Electrification

They are not the leaders, we all know that. Who made the first 200+ EV and that was stylish? Who's battery chemistry is the best?

And who is fighting them publicly on direct sales model?

Its simply BS.

But hey, its a small detail in the grand scheme of things, just pisses me off.

Yeah, I can see that. I found their EREV "Marketecture" with the Volt annoying too.

That having been said:

-I rarely pay attention to marketing... I aim for the engineering specs

-Quite frankly, they MAY be leading the pack in a 200+ mile EV in that price range... at least publicly they are testing more than anybody else...

 

[smac]

Oh, ok. Well you should definitely read the book and watch the doc.

You are missing my point I think.

It is not ME. It is Joe Public you need to convince!

Should I tell everyone to watch the film and read the book, turn them into GM haters so they will only buy a Tesla?

I say let them chose based on engineering and fit for purpose merits of the cars, and leave that episode in the past where it belongs. Competition is good, it will drive innovation, and atm only GM are showing signs of having something even close in the pipeline.

 

[hockeythug]

What is the estimated battery size they are using?

 

[EVNow]

Not in Texas. When I was looking at the LEAF I found this out.

Nope - there are a ton of Texas posters on MNL and I've not seen anyone say/complain about that.

- - - Updated - - -

First all the nay-sayers that suggested this would never be built, and took pot shots the name, styling, and GM.

Then GM announced they would build it, and all the nay-sayers then said it will never have the promised 200+ mile range, and took pot shots at the name, styling, and GM.

Then GM announced they have 55+ of them running around and getting 200+ mile range and show fast-charging, and the nay-sayers complain about size and lack of frunk, and take pot shots at the name, styling, and GM.


I'm not an apologist for GM, but I've never quite understood the somewhat vehement opposition from many towards this effort.

+1

Hardly a fan of GM - but this kneejerk reaction to GM producing a 200 mile inexpensive EV ahead of Tesla is unexpected. It seems to have shaken a lot of fan boys. They can't accept it as a reality and thus all the noise. May be some have financial motivation to downplay Bolt too.

 

[MartinAustin]

I don't get the GM hate here--yes they did something sh!tty with the EV1, but I think they have made amends since then:
- The Volt is a good, fun to drive car, every Volt owner I have run across loves their car and GM deserves credit for designing it to appeal to mainstream tastes
- A 200-mile affordable BEV with mass market appeal deserves kudos--whether you like the styling or not, at least they are bringing something viable to market - more than can be said for any other manufacturer including Tesla

As Musk has said, he did not start Tesla to be the next Toyota to to drive exactly this kind of behavior from manufacturers. I hope the Bolt sells like crazy--its good for the entire EV segment, including Tesla.

Yeah it is unwarranted. Elon has said many times that the goal of Tesla is to accelerate the transition to sustainable transport - not take care of it single-handedly. Their plan is to inspire the other auto manufacturers by showing that it is do-able... and that is slowly working.

We have Nissan producing the Leaf, Kia with the Soul EV, Merc has the B Class ED - but really there aren't that many BEVs out there, and nothing that can do 200 miles.

We need to cut GM some slack, until the Bolt actually comes out and we can take a look at it and evaluate it. I personally don't believe the 200 miles until I see it tested... but I am willing to cut them enough respect right now, just for trying.

Hardly a fan of GM - but this kneejerk reaction to GM producing a 200 mile inexpensive EV ahead of Tesla is unexpected. It seems to have shaken a lot of fan boys. They can't accept it as a reality and thus all the noise. May be some have financial motivation to downplay Bolt too.

"inexpensive" ? It is "inexpensive relative to the Model S" at best. It's $37,500 plus delivery and sales tax, which is $41,500 - and that is the "stripper" version of the car, that has no optional extras. (yes there will be a $7,500 rebate) You can get a pretty nice BMW 3 or Infiniti G etc. etc. for $41K+. Not sure I would describe it as inexpensive.

 

[smac]

What is the estimated battery size they are using?

Not sure it's in the public domain.

Guessing I'd say 40-50kWh.

 

[JRP3]

I'm just waiting for any company besides Tesla to build a desirable EV that's not a weirdmobile. Bolt doesn't cut it. Another "Let's make an EV out of an econobox" is still sending the wrong message. I really thought we'd have better choices by now.

 

[EVNow]

I'm just waiting for any company besides Tesla to build a desirable EV that's not a weirdmobile. Bolt doesn't cut it. Another "Let's make an EV out of an econobox" is still sending the wrong message. I really thought we'd have better choices by now.

The choice of size & shape for the Bolt is indeed .. weird. It should atleast have been a compact.

But Bolt is no weirdmobile - you'll a number of number models from various manufacturers in most countries outside the US.

 

[anticitizen13.7]

Nope - there are a ton of Texas posters on MNL and I've not seen anyone say/complain about that.

- - - Updated - - -



+1

Hardly a fan of GM - but this kneejerk reaction to GM producing a 200 mile inexpensive EV ahead of Tesla is unexpected. It seems to have shaken a lot of fan boys. They can't accept it as a reality and thus all the noise. May be some have financial motivation to downplay Bolt too.

My suspicion is that many people haven't forgiven GM for the EV1 debacle, and will probably always feel some residual ill will towards the company. It is pretty commonly known that the next generation LEAF from Nissan also targets this level of range, but there's nowhere near the antipathy (pretty close to none) towards Nissan and Carlos Ghosn.

The problem with the Bolt itself is that it is a bit odd looking along the lines of BMW i3 and Honda Element. There also appears to be no fast charging network that would enable convenient long distance travel. I just don't see an EV without long-distance capability as a Tesla competitor, even with 200 miles EPA range.

 

[stopcrazypp]

My suspicion is that many people haven't forgiven GM for the EV1 debacle, and will probably always feel some residual ill will towards the company. It is pretty commonly known that the next generation LEAF from Nissan also targets this level of range, but there's nowhere near the antipathy (pretty close to none) towards Nissan and Carlos Ghosn.

Good example with the Leaf. The attitude toward Nissan is a lot different even for somewhat similar cars (although the next-gen Leaf will likely be a compact with a mid-size in interior like the current one, not a subcompact with a subcompact/compact interior like the Bolt).