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I read this thread, was briefly confused, then read the bottom, with the ignored content.
LOOOL
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
A bunch of folks not understanding physics and explaining how they know more about brakes than the dude who teaches SAE master classes on the topic, designs braking systems for major OEMs, and has literally written books on the topic.
Also a lot of folks who didn't notice the original reply addressed, separately, both "feel" and "objective stopping distance" - such that they kept insisting the OP (who explicitly asked about both) only meant one of them, while they kept being wrong about the other one.
So, as someone that actually does Autocross their car, and never really had an issue with the stock pads even with R-comp tires, but now needs new pads...
What are the M3P pad options out there that do have nice initial bite and are street-able?
Pads I know of:
Porterfield RS4's
Carbotech (any compound)
Mountain Pass
Unplugged Performance
What are the M3P pad options out there that do have nice initial bite and are street-able?
Pads I know of:
Porterfield RS4's
Carbotech (any compound)
Mountain Pass
Unplugged Performance
Last edited:
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Not really adding fuel... the "BBK" P stopped in virtually the same distance as the LR with stock non-P brakes when cold 
Further, their 2 really "long" stops happened, regardless of which brakes were on the car, when they switched to different tires (and both bad stops are with the same tires- tires they note are intended to do best when hot on a track)
It's almost like the tires stop the car or something
After establishing basic physics still works, they did "warm" tire/brake testing- and we see much the same results (all #s slightly better thanks to warmed tires- and the higher performance tires showing the most improvement since again they're meant to be run warm)
Lastly they try and get the "worst result" tires hotter still and test those again- and shocker, shorter stop. With no brake change.
And indeed, around 11:10 they give you the same conclusion a fundamental grasp of physics does- it's the tires, not the brakes, controlling stopping distance in these tests.
If they wanted to see the brakes make a difference to anything they'd have wanted to do fade testing, say stopping 10 or 20 times from speed back to back to back, and measuring when distances began getting longer and by how much.... a situation of considerably relevant on a race track, or during the chase scene in a Jason Bourne movie, but not so much for daily street driving.
Further, their 2 really "long" stops happened, regardless of which brakes were on the car, when they switched to different tires (and both bad stops are with the same tires- tires they note are intended to do best when hot on a track)
It's almost like the tires stop the car or something
After establishing basic physics still works, they did "warm" tire/brake testing- and we see much the same results (all #s slightly better thanks to warmed tires- and the higher performance tires showing the most improvement since again they're meant to be run warm)
Lastly they try and get the "worst result" tires hotter still and test those again- and shocker, shorter stop. With no brake change.
And indeed, around 11:10 they give you the same conclusion a fundamental grasp of physics does- it's the tires, not the brakes, controlling stopping distance in these tests.
If they wanted to see the brakes make a difference to anything they'd have wanted to do fade testing, say stopping 10 or 20 times from speed back to back to back, and measuring when distances began getting longer and by how much.... a situation of considerably relevant on a race track, or during the chase scene in a Jason Bourne movie, but not so much for daily street driving.
drew.cleaver
SpecTesla Developer
Big fan of the Unplugged GTS Brembo kit.
Tesla service had no complaints flushing my UP setup with BYOBrake fluid (Castrol SRF). There is a peculiar procedure with the ABS pump allegedly. I had a mush pedal for all 3 events last year and it feels like a new car after a dealer service flush.
Bring 2 liters of fluid though it can take a lot to cycle the pump.
Tesla service had no complaints flushing my UP setup with BYOBrake fluid (Castrol SRF). There is a peculiar procedure with the ABS pump allegedly. I had a mush pedal for all 3 events last year and it feels like a new car after a dealer service flush.
Bring 2 liters of fluid though it can take a lot to cycle the pump.
As someone that actually tracks their Tesla in timed events- Did you run any events with the stock brakes? How long did it take to notice fade? Did you upgrade to the bigger brakes in order to reduce fade, or to stop shorter on the first lap? How much slower were your events where the pedal was mushy? How much slower are the Teslas in Time Attack that haven't upgraded brakes?
drew.cleaver
SpecTesla Developer
PPIR and Road America were on stock calipers with UP pads, fluid etc. I never ran into fade because I don't do more than 1 hot lap in a row.
Road America was pretty terrifying though. The upgrade for me was all about pedal feel/modulation and confidence than a need for capacity, and I feel like that is what I got.
It's hard to put a number on it but it's way more fun and easier to manage the tire threshold and balance with a little more direct pedal feel for me.
I've got a new 2021 M3P and have installed MPP Page Mill Performance frt/rear 2-pc rotors with aftermarket performance pads. The issue I'm having is with an overly aggressive intervention of the Tesla ABS system. When I try to threshold brake the ABS system intervenes at about 85% before lock up, with the pedal dropping about 1/2". This is really aggravating.
Is there any solution to this?
Is there any solution to this?
Does this setup maintain the same brake ratio front and rear, and are the same pads front/rear? The basic question here is if this setup messed with the front/rear bias.
Also, did you make any changes at the same time? Tires, alignment, shocks, can all dramatically change braking capabilities.
And how do you know it's 85%? Maybe it's just lower tire friction than you expecting due to cold road and tires?
jackmott
Member
Gearcruncher I figure you have been around long enough to have thought about this, but you can go with pads that are pretty bad about noise and dust on the street because you can just regen stop most of the time. That said for autocross I think you could just keep using stock pads and put that mountain pass brace on for better feel.
Not for noise you can't. Most brake pad noise is at lower speeds, and Teslas cannot regen all the way to zero MPH. They use the friction brakes automatically at the last few MPH even if you don't touch the brake pedal.
Are there actually people out there that go to the track, drive hard enough to need aftermarket brakes, but then when they are on the street are able to switch mental modes and never brake more than 0.2G?
jackmott
Member
No they don't. Where do you get that from? There's no brake blending with the Model 3. The brakes are only applied once the car stops in hold mode. I use track pads in mine and have zero noise issues on the road.
When I was taking my ICE daily driver to the occasional track day - with less power and weight than an M3P - I just swapped pads. I tried one or two "compromise pads" supposedly good for street and track, and they felt like s*** at both compared to good street pads and good track pads. Kind of like comparing all-seasons to good summer tires + good winter tires.
I didn't have time or budget to keep exhaustively trying compromise pads to see if one truly delivered on the promise. I just added "swap pads" to my "because track car" extra maintenance list. YMMV!
I didn't have time or budget to keep exhaustively trying compromise pads to see if one truly delivered on the promise. I just added "swap pads" to my "because track car" extra maintenance list. YMMV!
Gotta have a mental on/off switch for the streets, too many popo's.
Make sure your regen is set to 'Hold' and keep your foot over the brake pedal as the car comes to a stop.
You'll notice the brake pedal only recedes when the car is 'Holding' after coming to a complete stop.
This tells me that regen is capable of stopping the car to 0 mph
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