Confused about charging in off-peak hours

[Mrbrock]

yes

My peak hrs are 3 hrs not my off peak

Didnt know such a thing existed, would be nice if the app just worked though for off peak charging

Ok, I originally asked when your off peak hours were and you said 6-9 so that was confusing. Never heard of only 3 hours of off peak.

The app is designed for use of at home L2 (240V) charging at the highest rate your car can accept. They do not expect charging to take longer than the duration of your off peak so they never considered any other scenarios and kept the app implementation simple. As others have suggested, getting an L2 charger with smart features will allow you to see the times when it charges so it only runs off peak. Many utilities offer rebates for installation if these type of chargers because it guarantees less load during peak hours.

 

[gottagofast]

Ok, I originally asked when your off peak hours were and you said 6-9 so that was confusing. Never heard of only 3 hours of off peak.

The app is designed for use of at home L2 (240V) charging at the highest rate your car can accept. They do not expect charging to take longer than the duration of your off peak so they never considered any other scenarios and kept the app implementation simple. As others have suggested, getting an L2 charger with smart features will allow you to see the times when it charges so it only runs off peak. Many utilities offer rebates for installation if these type of chargers because it guarantees less load during peak hours.

I got one it’s just going to be another month or 2 before it’s connected, so I have to use 20 amps until then

 

[dcp123]

The Tesla. If you tap the "Schedule" button on the charging screen, you get this:View attachment 624280

Why do they pretend they offer off-peak charging when they don't? They enjoy lying.
Why don't they do something as trivially easy as updating their software to let you a) tell the car your off-peak hours, or b) tell it what your utility and rate plan are, like literally every EV maker selling into the American market? Because the company is run by an arrogant douche who doesn't care what the customers want.
Or, maybe I'm wrong. But there is literally no sane reason not to allow owners to charge when power is abundant and cheap. Power is more green at those hours too. Why would a utility burn expensive gas when morning sun is giving it the power it needs, or when when constant hydro and nuclear generation fill the need at night?

 

[E90alex]

Yes they should have programmed in a hard start and end time for off peak.

But it’s easy to work around if you so choose. I’ve had no issues with the off peak settings. If you charge daily, any 240V setup should be able to replenish the previous days use within off peak hours unless you just came back from a long road trip and it’s very low.

They designed it for the general public who don’t know what they’re doing and therefore prioritize reaching the desired charge limit instead of obeying a time bracket.

 

[gottagofast]

Why do they pretend they offer off-peak charging when they don't? They enjoy lying.
Why don't they do something as trivially easy as updating their software to let you a) tell the car your off-peak hours, or b) tell it what your utility and rate plan are, like literally every EV maker selling into the American market? Because the company is run by an arrogant douche who doesn't care what the customers want.
Or, maybe I'm wrong. But there is literally no sane reason not to allow owners to charge when power is abundant and cheap. Power is more green at those hours too. Why would a utility burn expensive gas when morning sun is giving it the power it needs, or when when constant hydro and nuclear generation fill the need at night?

Yea if I could set my car to only charge between 7 PM and 5 AM that would cover all of my off peak charging for the whole year

 

[Mrbrock]

Why do they pretend they offer off-peak charging when they don't? They enjoy lying.
Why don't they do something as trivially easy as updating their software to let you a) tell the car your off-peak hours, or b) tell it what your utility and rate plan are, like literally every EV maker selling into the American market? Because the company is run by an arrogant douche who doesn't care what the customers want.
Or, maybe I'm wrong. But there is literally no sane reason not to allow owners to charge when power is abundant and cheap. Power is more green at those hours too. Why would a utility burn expensive gas when morning sun is giving it the power it needs, or when when constant hydro and nuclear generation fill the need at night?

You used to be able to enter a utility rate plan, at least in CA. I remember mine not being listed but there were plans you could choose. Maybe it was removed due to inaccuracy.

 

[davewill]

You used to be able to enter a utility rate plan, at least in CA. I remember mine not being listed but there were plans you could choose. Maybe it was removed due to inaccuracy.

You can in the app, if just doesn't have anything to with scheduling. One thing to know about it is that you can select your rate from a menu of utilities, but once you do, it doesn't update those rates when they change. You have to go back into the app and select your rate over again to update the reporting with the new info.

The answer to why they don't give us more flexibility in the scheduling comes down to simplicity. The interface is already confusing, more options usually means more complexity and more confusion. Now, I happen to think they could do this much better and be LESS confusing with a better UI design. They would have to give it more screen real estate and ideally use a matrix. It would be nice if they would allow you to base it on your rate schedule from the app, so you don't have to enter complex schedules through the touch screen in the car.

I also strongly feel that the EVSE is a more logical place to do scheduling. After all, the schedule goes with the location. Presumably, even if you plug in a different car, you'd want to have the same schedule. It also opens the door to integrating with solar production and load sharing. The only problem is that the EVSE doesn't know the charge level of the car or how fast it will charge, making schedules that are based on end time problematic. Tesla is in a great place to handle that by integrating the EVSE with the car through their back-end.

Which is where we may finally end up with all cars and EVSEs. It could be handled like all the various home automation and fitness devices do it where you give permission to your EVSE to access your car data for scheduling and reporting purposes...or vice versa.

 

[Transformer]

It could be handled like all the various home automation and fitness devices do it where you give permission to your EVSE to access your car data for scheduling and reporting purposes...or vice versa.

Much simpler and faster for users if they can extend the charging communications. Authentication = plug in.

 

[davewill]

Much simpler and faster for users if they can extend the charging communications. Authentication = plug in.

The L2 charging standard doesn't leave a lot of room for that as there is no communications involved. Tesla did it in a proprietary manner, but that has caused interoperability problems for them.

 

[Transformer]

The L2 charging standard doesn't leave a lot of room for that as there is no communications involved. Tesla did it in a proprietary manner, but that has caused interoperability problems for them.

Put a high frequency carrier on top and modulate that? What interoperability problems do they have?

 

[Rocky_H]

What interoperability problems do they have?

It's a 12 page thread about Tesla's new "Universal Wall Connector" not being able to charge other brands of EVs with its J1772 plug because it's not implementing the J1772 communication protocol correctly. When Tesla made a wall connector that was only a J1772, they had it right then. They only screwed it up in the Universal wall connector.

New "Universal Wall Connector" doesn't charge the Rivian.

We have a Rivian in the family and ordered the new Universal Wall Connector when it was announced. We installed it today and the charging works excellent with any Tesla I plug in but it does not do anything with the Rivian. When using the integrated adapter, there is no audible click nor any...

teslamotorsclub.com

 

[Mrbrock]

You can in the app, if just doesn't have anything to with scheduling. One thing to know about it is that you can select your rate from a menu of utilities, but once you do, it doesn't update those rates when they change. You have to go back into the app and select your rate over again to update the reporting with the new info.

The answer to why they don't give us more flexibility in the scheduling comes down to simplicity. The interface is already confusing, more options usually means more complexity and more confusion. Now, I happen to think they could do this much better and be LESS confusing with a better UI design. They would have to give it more screen real estate and ideally use a matrix. It would be nice if they would allow you to base it on your rate schedule from the app, so you don't have to enter complex schedules through the touch screen in the car.

I also strongly feel that the EVSE is a more logical place to do scheduling. After all, the schedule goes with the location. Presumably, even if you plug in a different car, you'd want to have the same schedule. It also opens the door to integrating with solar production and load sharing. The only problem is that the EVSE doesn't know the charge level of the car or how fast it will charge, making schedules that are based on end time problematic. Tesla is in a great place to handle that by integrating the EVSE with the car through their back-end.

Which is where we may finally end up with all cars and EVSEs. It could be handled like all the various home automation and fitness devices do it where you give permission to your EVSE to access your car data for scheduling and reporting purposes...or vice versa.

Yeah, my parents Honda Clarity wouldn’t charge anywhere during peak hours once they programmed that. There wasn’t a home setting so if you put the hours in, it locked out charging even at free public chargers. I told them to delete that and got them a window ac timer for their 120v portable charger. Easy peasy

 

[DrChaos]

Why do they pretend they offer off-peak charging when they don't? They enjoy lying.
Why don't they do something as trivially easy as updating their software to let you a) tell the car your off-peak hours, or b) tell it what your utility and rate plan are, like literally every EV maker selling into the American market?

What do you mean? It does exactly that. My 3LR ends charging by 6AM every day, and turns on when it needs to. It is supposed to work that way, and it does work that way for many people. If not there is some peculiar failure.

Because the company is run by an arrogant douche who doesn't care what the customers want.
Or, maybe I'm wrong. But there is literally no sane reason not to allow owners to charge when power is abundant and cheap. Power is more green at those hours too. Why would a utility burn expensive gas when morning sun is giving it the power it needs, or when when constant hydro and nuclear generation fill the need at night?

In California in fact the power is most green when solar is abundant, 10AM -> 2PM, but that is not typical of most areas. California has large open areas of near desert which consistently have few clouds year round.

 

[davewill]

Put a high frequency carrier on top and modulate that? What interoperability problems do they have?

They chose to run CAN protocol before failing over to regular J1772 signaling. Unfortunately, that results in a war of timeouts where some cars give up before the wall connector does. Comedy ensues...

If I were designing something, I'd probably go with the same powerline comms that CSS uses, but it may be impossible to answer all the backwards compatibility issues.

 

[Mrbrock]

What do you mean? It does exactly that. My 3LR ends charging by 6AM every day, and turns on when it needs to. It is supposed to work that way, and it does work that way for many people. If not there is some peculiar failure.



In California in fact the power is most green when solar is abundant, 10AM -> 2PM, but that is not typical of most areas. California has large open areas of near desert which consistently have few clouds year round.

The Tesla website has been updated to offer a somewhat clear explanation.

Model 3 Owner's Manual | Tesla

Learn how to schedule charging and departure times.

www.tesla.com

Looks like you need Scheduled Departure Off-Peak Charging selected but this means it starts charging when you plug it in. There isn't a "off-peak starts" setting, just the "off-peak ends" setting so it is confusing and requires something other than plug and forget it if you arrive home during peak hours.

 

[E90alex]

Off peak only offers when to start. There is no end unless you set up scheduled departure as well. It will charge until it hits your charge limit. The Tesla website has been updated to offer a somewhat clear explanation.

Model 3 Owner's Manual | Tesla

Learn how to schedule charging and departure times.

www.tesla.com

Looks like you need Scheduled Departure Off-Peak Charging selected.

You cannot set both scheduled charge start and scheduled off peak end.

Yes both options are “open ended” but if you are charging every day as you should then both options should finish charging well within your off peak period. Exception is if you drive A LOT and arrive home with a low charge and have to charge all the way back up.

 

[Mrbrock]

You cannot set both scheduled charge start and scheduled off peak end.

Yes both options are “open ended” but if you are charging every day as you should then both options should finish charging well within your off peak period. Exception is if you drive A LOT and arrive home with a low charge and have to charge all the way back up.

Yeah, sorry. I cleared that up with an edit above. Off-peak only offers an end time so it will start when you plug in if it determines you need the whole time to charge by the off-peak/scheduled departure end time.

 

[DrChaos]

Looks like you need Scheduled Departure Off-Peak Charging selected but this means it starts charging when you plug it in.

It does not do so for me. There must be something off on your settings if it does it for you. There is some location dependent setting that might need to be reset?

There isn't a "off-peak starts" setting, just the "off-peak ends" setting so it is confusing and requires something other than plug and forget it if you arrive home during peak hours.

But it doesn't. I arrive home at 7 or 8 pm. I plug it in and forget it. It does not charge and it goes to sleep soon enough. Recharging takes 1-2hrs usually. Charges 4:45 am to 5:45 am, as peak period ends at 6am. My scheduled departure is 10 am, but it does not charge 6am to 10 am, and I don't have climate control for scheduled departure so it's an unimportant value.

 

[Mrbrock]

It does not do so for me. There must be something off on your settings if it does it for you. There is some location dependent setting that might need to be reset?


But it doesn't. I arrive home at 7 or 8 pm. I plug it in and forget it. It does not charge and it goes to sleep soon enough. Recharging takes 1-2hrs usually. Charges 4:45 am to 5:45 am, as peak period ends at 6am. My scheduled departure is 10 am, but it does not charge 6am to 10 am, and I don't have climate control for scheduled departure so it's an unimportant value.

It only works for you if you only need an hour of charge. If 100% of the time you only need 10-20% then this works for you. I remember early days with my 2020 M3 you could set the begin off peak time but that does not appear to be the case any more.

If your off peak is only 6 hours and your car needs 8 hours to charge, and the end of off peak is 8 hours from when you plug in, it will start charging immediately, regardless of whether off-peak time has started (it doesn't know because there isn't a place to enter off-peak start time, please show me this screen if you think this is untrue). There is nothing to prevent it from charging when you plug it in unless you do scheduled charging but then it will continue to charge until it hits your desired charge level, even if that is after off-peak ends because there is no screen to enter off peak if you select schedule charge.

 

[E90alex]

It only works for you if you only need an hour of charge. If 100% of the time you only need 10-20% then this works for you. I remember early days with my 2020 M3 you could set the begin off peak time but that does not appear to be the case any more.

If your off peak is only 6 hours and your car needs 8 hours to charge, and the end of off peak is 8 hours from when you plug in, it will start charging immediately, regardless of whether off-peak time has started (it doesn't know because there isn't a place to enter off-peak start time, please show me this screen if you think this is untrue). There is nothing to prevent it from charging when you plug it in unless you do scheduled charging but then it will continue to charge until it hits your desired charge level, even if that is after off-peak ends because there is no screen to enter off peak if you select schedule charge.

Yes this is true. But unless you are charging on 120v or drive hundreds of miles per day, it’s generally not going to be an issue.