Coronavirus

[EVNow]

Basically we have two core ideals
- Personal Liberty
- Common Good

Vaccine/masking are not the only items where we have a clash between those two - though some people try to make them out to be.

Sometime we think of these ideals as unconstrained - but that is never the case. Personal liberty is not ok when it starts impinging on others' basic rights. So we have restrictions on personal liberties - whether it is to make sure people drive properly without causing accidents or to make sure they don't carry bombs on airplanes or spread communicable diseases. When someone breaks these rules - we restrict certain liberties they enjoyed (like putting them in a prison or not allowing into a restaurant because they aren't dressed properly).

Ofcourse pushing Common Good to take away liberties is unfortunately very common. Most administrations in the US have had authoritarian tendencies - whether conscripting for wars to kill millions abroad, putting people of a certain ethnicity in mass prison like FDR did.

As with everything else - we need to strike a balance between the Common Good and Personal Liberties when it comes to vaccines / masking etc. There are simply no easy answers.

 

[madodel]

Covid-19 vaccine for 5- to 11-year-olds is safe and shows 'robust' antibody response, Pfizer says

 

[madodel]

This to me is really nuts.
Montana healthcare worker blamed for death, forced resign for not prescribing Ivermectin
That's right he was forced to resign as a PA because he didn't prescribe a livestock dewormer for some crackpot who died.

 

[jerry33]

This to me is really nuts.
Montana healthcare worker blamed for death, forced resign for not prescribing Ivermectin
That's right he was forced to resign as a PA because he didn't prescribe a livestock dewormer for some crackpot who died.

Read: The hospital didn't want to have it's personnel targeted by the loonies.

 

[FlatSix911]

Here is a good data visualization of the Covid-19 trends in all 50 states. Increases were noted in the Midwest and Northeastern states.

Have we flattened the curve in the US? - Johns Hopkins

Daily Confirmed Case Trends (7-Day Moving Average) in the US

coronavirus.jhu.edu

 

[uujjj2]

They died because they denied reality. Some media personalities may lie to people but they don't stop doing what protects themselves. These folks ignored that reality.

That's right. These are all 2nd tier, local hosts. How come none of the big name nationally syndicated hosts (Hannity, Levin, Elder, Hewitt, etc.) are dying? Because they're all vaccinated, that's why.

 

[Terminator857]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1440103679349035011

My main take away from watching the video and slides is that the virus is mutating quickly.
Other take away:
Mutations in the spike protein makes for more successful viruses.

Quote (21:30): Virus mutates 5 times faster than H3N2 flu virus.

 

[dhanson865]

Tennessee recommends the vaccinated lose access to monoclonal antibod…

archived 21 Sep 2021 13:31:47 UTC

archive.ph

Tennessee recommends vaccinated residents lose access to monoclonal antibody treatment​

The Tennessee state government now recommends nearly all vaccinated residents be denied access to monoclonal antibody treatment in a new effort to preserve a limited supply of antibody drugs for those who remain most vulnerable to the virus, largely by their own choice.

The federal government began capping shipments of these drugs last week because the majority of the national supply is being used by a small number of poorly vaccinated southern states, including Tennessee.

State officials say restricting eligibility to the treatment will reserve the now-limited supply of drugs for those unvaccinated residents most likely to suffer severe complications from a coronavirus infection. But the recommendation is certain to frustrate many vaccinated Tennesseans, who took commonsense steps to help stop the pandemic and, as a result, may now lose access to one of the most effective treatments for the virus.

 

[bkp_duke]

Tennessee recommends the vaccinated lose access to monoclonal antibod…

archived 21 Sep 2021 13:31:47 UTC

archive.ph

Tennessee recommends vaccinated residents lose access to monoclonal antibody treatment​

/facepalm

You could vaccinate something like 10,000 people for what one course of these drugs cost for just one person . . .

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Antibody titers are only ONE marker of a robust immune response. Not the only (some would argue not the best marker), but they are the easiest marker to measure.

They also, generally, have a ceiling on production.

This podcast with Dr. Shane Crotty was helpful for me to understand why a booster might help more than you might think (and in general why a longer delay is helpful for getting a diverse selection of memory B-cells):

About a 45-minute listen (22 minutes at 2x speed!) starting at 5 minutes. Discussion of immunity with natural infection supplemented by vaccination, but also plenty of discussion about boosters in SARS-CoV-2 naive individuals.

Seems like dose also probably matters, not discussed here, but it seems like the long delay is the most important factor when it comes to developing strong protection against variants. So plausible that a 30ug booster would make Pfizer stronger and longer lasting, and better able to protect against severe disease, than the original 2-dose Moderna series. We'll see!

Doesn't think a delta-specific vaccine is required at this time (I still think it might be a good idea to move the vaccine target a bit, in spite of the body's ability to protect against variants naturally).

 

[Doggydogworld]

Tennessee recommends the vaccinated lose access to monoclonal antibod…

archived 21 Sep 2021 13:31:47 UTC

archive.ph

Tennessee recommends vaccinated residents lose access to monoclonal antibody treatment​

I was just thinking how areas with overrun hospitals should triage unvaccinated patients behind vaccinated and non-Covid patients of similar severity. That would be good public health policy while also setting up proper incentives. So naturally Tennessee does the exact opposite.

 

[bkp_duke]

I was just thinking how areas with overrun hospitals should triage unvaccinated patients behind vaccinated and non-Covid patients of similar severity. That would be good public health policy while also setting up proper incentives. So naturally Tennessee does the exact opposite.

There are laws against this. We can triage based upon "severity", but that's it.

 

[ReddyLeaf]

There are laws against this. We can triage based upon "severity", but that's it.

So is it legal for Tennessee to recommend withholding a specific treatment based on vaccination status? Probably because they will just argue that it’s only a “recommendation” and not an edict.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

This podcast with Dr. Shane Crotty was helpful for me to understand why a booster might help more than you might think (and in general why a longer delay is helpful for getting a diverse selection of memory B-cells):

About a 45-minute listen (22 minutes at 2x speed!) starting at 5 minutes. Discussion of immunity with natural infection supplemented by vaccination, but also plenty of discussion about boosters in SARS-CoV-2 naive individuals.

Seems like dose also probably matters, not discussed here, but it seems like the long delay is the most important factor when it comes to developing strong protection against variants. So plausible that a 30ug booster would make Pfizer stronger and longer lasting, and better able to protect against severe disease, than the original 2-dose Moderna series. We'll see!

Doesn't think a delta-specific vaccine is required at this time (I still think it might be a good idea to move the vaccine target a bit, in spite of the body's ability to protect against variants naturally).

Related (all Delta):

Hopefully the booster in SARS-CoV-2 naive individuals approximates the attack rate with delta, when fully vaccinated on top of a prior infection (5%, N=21). (0% for Pfizer on top of infection, N=5):

For reference, the attack rate in unvaccinated COVID-naive individuals was 100%.

Note that in general for this study most people (76%) of people had been vaccinated with Pfizer > 4 months prior to infection, and 0% of people had been vaccinated with Moderna > 4 months prior to infection (i.e., all recent vaccinations). And a much larger % of Moderna recipients (30%) had previously had an infection vs. Pfizer (5%).

Attack rate was 85% for fully vaccinated Pfizer, no prior COVID, and 54% for Moderna, no prior COVID. (Note that these numbers do not represent and cannot be compared to the efficacy numbers quoted from the trials, which has a different definition.)

Outbreak of SARS-CoV-2 B.1.617.2...

This report describes an outbreak with the Delta variant in a federal Texas prison among unvaccinated and vaccinated persons.

www.cdc.gov

 

[bkp_duke]

So is it legal for Tennessee to recommend withholding a specific treatment based on vaccination status? Probably because they will just argue that it’s only a “recommendation” and not an edict.

From everything I've been taught and experienced during practice, it's not legal. It would fall under equal rights laws and access to care. I could see this one going to the state or federal supreme court and being shot down pretty hard.

 

[eevee-fan]

CNN: 'Funeral home' ad spreads message for the unvaccinated.

'Funeral home' ad spreads message for the unvaccinated | CNN

The truck had the name of a funeral home on it. But instead of a soothing thought that might double as a company slogan, the message on the side read: "Don't get vaccinated."

www.cnn.com

 

[Norbert]

Whatever happened to achieving herd immunity ?

2 things: Delta and the We-know-better-than-the-scientific-establishment-because-we-have-freedom cult.

Delta being more contagious raised the requirements for herd immunity to a higher level, while the vaccination has trouble reaching the levels of the previous requirements (perhaps even in combination with natural immunity and mask wearing). Sabotaging the "miracle" that we were promised, and trying to make up for it with bleach substitutes and de-wormers. It makes as much sense as climate change denial. Or perhaps we are getting there now, but then, that's what we said about renewable energy politics long ago...

So with high case numbers we are now facing the non-zero risk of epsilon being even worse and possibly defeating existing vaccines. Anyway reaching 700,000 US deaths in a few days, a number that quite a few vocally said would be unrealistically high.

Thinking back of things that were said long ago, I just noticed that South Korea is still at 47 deaths per million (while many countries are around 2,000).

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Delta being more contagious raised the requirements for herd immunity to a higher level, while the vaccination has trouble reaching the levels of the previous requirements (perhaps even in combination with natural immunity and mask wearing)

Pretty sure we will need boosters (in addition to more vaccination), if we want to have a hope of herd immunity.

Even very highly vaccinated places are seeing outbreaks. Maybe it would not be that bad with much higher vaccination rates but not sure.

It’s annoying we are not considering reducing dosage of first/second vaccinations and converting to a three-dose series, and/or extending interval between doses (likely helps improve long-term immunity). We never learn. At least we could have a proper trial at this point to check the results…but we don’t.

 

[dhanson865]

TN stayin classy.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1440405175018029056

"Force a shot on us? We force a shot on you! The Final covid variant, Communism."

oh and Gas is $2.75 a gallon

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Some waning of Moderna. This is a comparison of the original trial group vs. the unblinded control group, vaccinated later, during the Delta surge only. Be careful not to interpret this as 36%/46% improvement in absolute efficacy. This is a ~36%/46% improvement in efficacy, relative to the efficacy of an older Moderna vaccination. So for example if efficacy was 90% originally against infection, it would be something like 85% now for older vaccinations. Or if 95% effective against hospitalization, it would be 92-93% effective now. I think those would be the approximate numbers, anyway.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1440687378285219860

Anyway, time for boosters. It's important we keep elderly and at-risk people out of the hospital! With all the unvaccinated people filling the hospitals, we need to make sure the vaccinated people don't end up there (they don't want to be there, unlike the others). Need all the beds we can get! We'll accomplish ~90% of this goal or so by vaccinating the elderly again, probably.

(And of course we have to re-vaccinate front-line workers, so we have them fully protected, with no fear of working - and minimal sick time.)