Coronavirus

[SageBrush]

The Techcrunch article is misleading and internally contradictory as the control was not "no treatment"

Your words. If you posit that any study without a no-treatment arm is junk, then you are advocating for studies with rats, I presume from a position of ignorance of how clinical studies are designed and ignorance of multi-variate analysis.

Let me be clear: My point is that the Techcrunch headline that this study "casts doubt on the effectiveness of hydroxychlorquine's effectiveness as a treatment for COVID-19" is misleading because the study's control (use of other anti-virals) may also be effective in treating covid-19.

If the 'other treatments' were effective, HCQ would not be tossed into the soup.

 

[SageBrush]

I just saw a TV story in a local SF woman who lost her sense of smell before getting feverish etc.

A runny nose will have that effect

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Again you are labelling the most basic biological information as quackery. Put on your thinking cap and ask yourself what vaccination is for... why is China going back to work... what is "herd immunity". Google it.

Because they shut down the entire country to slow the spread, implemented strict containment strategies, implemented a lot of test capacity, used tracking software to trace the infected and do contact tracing, used tens of thousands of people to find these contacts and quarantine them, etc. And they now quarantine anyone coming into the country for 14 days in Beijing, from what I understand (maybe be a bit more nuanced than that). Etc.

It’s not quackery. They are not restarting the economy due to the wonders of vitamin C. If that were the case why would they bother with quarantine?

BTW, I do hope you are right about vitamin C being the cure. But if you are right, it appears this information about this miraculous cure has not made it to Wall Street yet - there would be big money to be made! (You may want to go LONG on the market with your super secret knowledge, before word gets out.). I’d go all in if I were you.

 

[Lessmog]

Again you are labelling the most basic biological information as quackery. Put on your thinking cap and ask yourself what vaccination is for... why is China going back to work... what is "herd immunity". Google it.

Try again. The error lies in not providing context. You did state outright what is dangerous advice. Don't.

If you make that claim, it falls on your shoulders to support it. Don't just expect us to "Google it".

 

[deonb]

Again you are labelling the most basic biological information as quackery. Put on your thinking cap and ask yourself what vaccination is for... why is China going back to work... what is "herd immunity". Google it.

What, wait? You think China developed herd immunity?

 

[Daniel in SD]

Members who laughed at my evidence that IV vitamin C cures COVID-19 have more to laugh at:

That's really not what I was laughing at. It is the conspiratorial thinking...
It seems very likely that effective treatments for COVID-19 exist.

 

[SMAlset]

A runny nose will have that effect

yes but believe she said she didn’t have one. But yes there are other reasons why people can lose their sense of taste or smell. All the same this loss might prove to be a symptom for some and people in close contact with family they live with for example should be aware of it at least.

 

[Lessmog]

Because they shut down the entire country to slow the spread, implemented strict containment strategies, implemented a lot of test capacity, used tracking software to trace the infected and do contact tracing, used tens of thousands of people to find these contacts and quarantine them, etc. And they now quarantine anyone coming into the country for 14 days in Beijing, from what I understand (maybe be a bit more nuanced than that). Etc.

It’s not quackery. They are not restarting the economy due to the wonders of vitamin C. If that were the case why would they bother with quarantine?

Maybe I missed it, but has anyone seen whether acupuncture was an important part in China's response?

 

[SageBrush]

there are at least four HCQ clinical trials in the works that use a placebo control.

That means that the patients do not know if they are receiving HCQ. It does NOT mean no other treatments.

 

[PeterJA]

Someone who has recovered from the virus (with or without symptoms) will not transmit it to others, because he/she is no longer shedding it. His/her immune system has defeated it, which is the same thing that happens after successful vaccination.

No, VENTILATORS are the primary therapy. The ONLY therapy shown to make a difference in mortality rate for COVID-19.

This is like saying beds are the primary therapy. Beds assist with rest and ventilators assist with oxygen delivery, but the primary thing that kills the virus is the immune system, which requires vitamin C.

Everything else (hydrochloroquine, Vitamin C, Zinc, etc.) is anecdotal at best (i.e. grade D or less on the scientific evidence scale).

Sorry, those are simply the FACTS. Not some Chinese doctor trying to pop his Youtube hit rate for a few extra bucks.

False. There is abundant scientific evidence for the role of vitamin C in the immune system, and other doctors besides Dr Cheng are using vitamin C for Coronavirus, as I have already cited.

 

[EinSV]

Your words. If you posit that any study witshout a no-treatment arm is junk, then you are advocating for studies with rats, I presume from a position of ignorance of how clinical studies are designed and ignorance of multi-variate analysis.

You seem to be the one who is uninformed. There are at least 4 HCQ clinical trials that are in the pipeline that use a placebo for a control (there may be others -- haven't looked at all the details). Search of: covid-19 hydroxychloroquine - List Results - ClinicalTrials.gov

One is a major study for the treatment of individuals with severe COVID-19 disease (HYDRA study).

Please do your homework before you insult people.

Better yet, stop insulting people and try to provide useful information instead.

If the 'other treatments' were effective, HCQ would not be tossed into the soup.

That's just completely wrong.

We don't know if the other anti-virals are effective or not because there are no randomized clinical trials or other strong data (at least not that I'm aware of). There is obviously enough anecdotal experience for doctors in the field to think it is wise to use some of these other antivirals -- there could be multiple effective treatments out there for COVID-19. We need to do the studies.

 

[SageBrush]

Maybe I missed it, but has anyone seen whether acupuncture was an important part in China's response?

Yes, it is a standard part of the 'therapeutic' recipe, AKA throw the kitchen sink at patients and hope something works and that the other things do not make for a worse outcome.

 

[linux-works]

more info about trying to DIY ventillators:

Ventilators 101: What They Do And How They Work

I am encouraged that people are at least trying to fill the gaps left by 'proper industry'. that's the type of human spirit that makes our species worth saving.

 

[EinSV]

That means that the patients do not know if they are receiving HCQ. It does NOT mean no other treatments.

Incorrect.

At least four hydroxychloroquine trials call for use of a placebo as a control. "Placebo" means placebo, not another treatment.

For example, here is a summary of the HYDRA trial from the official FDA clinical trials webpage.

Hydroxychloroquine Post Exposure Prophylaxis for Coronavirus Disease (COVID-19) - Full Text View - ClinicalTrials.gov

 

[bkp_duke]

This is like saying beds are the primary therapy. Beds assist with rest and ventilators assist with oxygen delivery, but the primary thing that kills the virus is the immune system, which requires vitamin C.

Nope, I can hook someone up to a ventilator on the bare floor. It's not comfortable for the patient, but I could do it.

You are ascribing too much value to an antioxidant (Vit C).

Reminds me of the Vitamin D rage 10 years ago. Vitamin D was going to cure Diabetes, Heart Disease, etc. Hundreds of millions of dollars later . . . we find out it just helps bones, like what we've known for decades.

 

[PeterJA]

Because they shut down the entire country to slow the spread, implemented strict containment strategies, implemented a lot of test capacity, used tracking software to trace the infected and do contact tracing, used tens of thousands of people to find these contacts and quarantine them, etc. And they now quarantine anyone coming into the country for 14 days in Beijing, from what I understand (maybe be a bit more nuanced than that). Etc.

It’s not quackery. They are not restarting the economy due to the wonders of vitamin C. If that were the case why would they bother with quarantine?

BTW, I do hope you are right about vitamin C being the cure. But if you are right, it appears this information about this miraculous cure has not made it to Wall Street yet - there would be big money to be made! (You may want to go LONG on the market with your super secret knowledge, before word gets out.). I’d go all in if I were you.

You are working very hard to misunderstand and misrepresent what I said. I did not say quarantine was quackery or that China is recovering because of vitamin C. China is going back to work because of the wonders of the human immune system. Otherwise quarantine would need to be permanent.

 

[EVNow]

Oh I worry. Their rural areas have the population density of a major city.

But small #s and isolated. Moreover everyone knows everyone else and what is happening to them ...

Anyway, as I said, villages will block outside people.

TOI Bengaluru on Twitter

Residents of several villages are blocking roads to stop outsiders from entering their villages​

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Otherwise quarantine would need to be permanent.

For now, it appears to be permanent, as one would logically expect.

 

[PeterJA]

Try again. The error lies in not providing context. You did state outright what is dangerous advice. Don't.

If you make that claim, it falls on your shoulders to support it. Don't just expect us to "Google it".

I already linked three sources that the scoffers here have refused to look at. But your obstinate ignorance does not require a link, just simple logic.

If humans could not recover from Coronavirus infection and never stopped shedding the virus, then any infected person would need to be quarantined permanently. Have you read about permanent "leper colonies" being built for COVID-19 patients? Show us a link for that.

For now, it appears to be permanent, as one would logically expect.

Link please.

 

[mikevbf]

Since New York is the US epicenter of both Covid-19 and trading right now, I thought people might value daily updates I am getting from a friend from NewYork-Presbyterian Hospital (note this is his summary not the actual text of the hospital's update from yesterday):

General updates:

-722 patients, 23% requiring ICU, and most of those ventilator


-Number of possible clinical trials starting shortly

-Capacity: we are still on the upswing in terms of patients

-We are continuing to focus on our capacity. The gov. has asked us to increase our capacity by 50% or more.

-Staying home is the most important thing you can do right now and is crucial to containing this outbreak. Even with the lock down we have weeks ahead of us in surge.

-If anyone is feeling sick, use NYP On Demand to access urgent virtual care


Testing:

-Testing issues remain of concern: global shortages of testing and swab kits. Labs and supply chains are looking for other types of swabs and alternatives but we need to make sure they are the right kind of swabs. We can’t take any supplies for granted.

-We are focusing on testing sickest patients who are being admitted with symptoms.

-OB patients are being tested because symptoms of labor mimic symptoms of COVID. We want to make sure we are picking up on some of the rare symptoms such as: body aches, and diarrhea.

-Department of health does not suggest testing outpatients who are mildly ill. If you are well enough to stay home, stay home.

-At home tests: some companies are selling at home tests, the FDA shut those down because they are not valid.


PPE:

-[email protected]

-There’s a possibility that we could get a large shipment. We are focusing on large quantities.

-Working on a way to re-sterilize masks

-We are 3d printing visors to go over masks

Visitor policy:

-New visitor policy for OB: we made a decision that we think was best for moms, babies, partners and employees. This is the most important choice for our patients.

-We are talking about tele-visitors