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Time for a poll:
If your daily fare is magic bullet stuff -- vaccine, meds, herd immunity ...

A question: Do you wear a mask outside the home ?
Do you wash your hands before eating or preparing food ?
Do you wash your hands after you go to the bathroom ?
Do you maintain social distancing outside the home ?
I only wear a mask if I'm going inside a building (which I've only done a few times in the last month). My area has low enough density that I can stay 10+ feet away from people while walking around. Yes, to all the other stuff.

I'm beginning to think that universal contact tracing through smartphones is the only solution. It's just a marketing problem to convince everyone to buy in. Bring on the surveillance police state. :p
Maybe turn off people's cellphone service when they leave the house if they don't opt in. People can't live without their phones.
I'm really not looking forward to a couple years of lockdown. It would take New York months at the current completely unsustainable rate to build up herd immunity. There's no way we can get the medical supplies to do that for the entire country and I doubt the hospital workers would be very supportive of that plan.
 
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Many people make this error so allow me to correct it. Agnostic and atheist are not mutually exclusive terms, agnostic means "without knowledge" and atheist means "without belief". If you don't believe you are by definition an atheist. You can be either an agnostic atheist, i.e. you don't believe in a god but don't know that one may not exist, or a gnostic atheist, i.e. you don't believe and know god doesn't exist.

How about the definition of someone who believes they are not smart enough to know for certain whether God exists or not? Or, (using not very politically correct vernacular), believes that God is the father of all men or no men?

.
 
Fauci says in interview that his social distancing advice was ignored for a month by trump.
Obviously, but some people have to hear it before they can start to think up spin or lies.

Fauci confirms New York Times report Trump rebuffed social distancing advice

I find the trumper counter-argument that the China travel ban should be emphasized in grading trump laughable.
385 thousand travelers came to the US from China in January before the travel ban was put in place late January. And New York was infected by Europe. Who remembers that the moron in chief exempted parts of Europe with his business dealings when he (much) later banned European travel ?
 
Time for a poll:
If your daily fare is magic bullet stuff -- vaccine, meds, herd immunity ...

A question: Do you wear a mask outside the home ? Only when I am going into a building or into a crowded area.
Do you wash your hands before eating or preparing food ? Yes
Do you wash your hands after you go to the bathroom ? Yes. And my policy is to not use any public restrooms anymore.
Do you maintain social distancing outside the home ? Yes. I may make exceptions for friends in the future where I know the history.

I know you have me on mute, so I have no idea what exactly you're trying to advocate for here. Certainly masks will be required for the foreseeable future. And they are a good idea for the most part. But I don't see them necessarily bringing R0 anywhere near 1 in the absence of many other measures, unless we're operating an extremely hobbled economy.

So what would be your plan for opening up the country again, exactly, and how long would you wait? (Maybe someone else who is not muted can repeat my question?)

I've been pretty clear on what I think is needed:
1) Prodigious testing capacity, used strategically (I'd suggest at least 50x the capacity we currently have). 1 billion tests per year for the US would be nice. The exact quantity I'm not sure of, but the point is to be able to scale rapidly to whatever is necessary.
2) Extensive buildup of public health authority capacity to trace people and manage surveillance (additional trained personnel)
3) Use technology to aid tracking and integrate with public health authorities (they need to be the only ones who can "notify" of a positive test result, otherwise the system will be abused).
4) Use technology to generate a nationwide database of cases and contact tracing and to allow tracking of cases & prevalence in real time. Perhaps people can come up with other ideas to allow technology to more quickly identify outbreaks and ease quarantining.
5) Substantial buildup of support methods (monetary, food delivery, etc.) for people who are confined to quarantine to motivate people to do the right thing.
6) Antibody tests would be good to figure out approximate prevalence (if high quality and used correctly), and to identify those who can return to work - but the numbers are currently so small relative to the population I don't really see this as being a huge help in the short term, even in New York.

Timing:
There's no way the biggest states most significant to the economy will be able to open before mid-May. The current number of cases is just too high, and in order for things to cool to a level where things can open up in any significant way, we'll have to wait. It will also take time to build up the items above, and have them ready in advance of re-opening. If they aren't in place we'll just end up with a massive second wave. If we don't wait for the number of new cases to diminish to a trickle, we won't be able to reopen, either.

State by state reopening is possible, but only if strict travel restrictions between states are imposed (as long as there are any hot states).
 
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The Feds at work:
FBI discovers promised stockpile of 39 million medical masks was a scam
"
As state governments and hospitals have scrambled to obtain masks and other medical supplies during the coronavirus pandemic, scammers attempted to sell a fake stockpile of 39 million masks to a California labor union.

The Los Angeles Times first reported on Sunday that the FBI had uncovered the scam, which has been traced back to a broker in Australia and a supplier in Kuwait. The investigators discovered the scam because they were looking into whether the supply could be intercepted by the federal government"
 
Not that anybody reading this thread actually thought there was SARS-CoV-2 novel coronavirus circulating in California in December, but this Twitter thread puts that to rest, definitively:
Trevor Bedford on Twitter
Enjoy! Very clear solid exposition of the available data which can put everybody's mind at rest who was sick in December and even early January in California - you did not have (SARS-CoV-2) coronavirus!

Do we have some consensus on when it started in China?
I noticed this:
First Covid-19 case happened in November, China government records show - report
...
The first case of someone suffering from Covid-19 can be traced back to 17 November, according to media reports on unpublished Chinese government data.

The report, in the South China Morning Post, said Chinese authorities had identified at least 266 people who contracted the virus last year and who came under medical surveillance, and the earliest case was 17 November – weeks before authorities announced the emergence of the new virus....

And:
Intelligence report warned of coronavirus crisis as early as November: Sources
...Concerns about what is now known to be the novel coronavirus pandemic were detailed in a November intelligence report by the military's National Center for Medical Intelligence (NCMI), according to two officials familiar with the document’s contents....

And:
U.S. spies had raw intel hinting at health crisis in China in November
 
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Do we have some consensus on when it started in China?

If you look at the blog posts on the Nextstrain website, you'll see that a month and a half ago, Trevor inferred a starting date as early as November, just based on the dynamics of the epidemic & the viral genetics. It is hard to pinpoint via that method the exact date, due to the stochastic nature of the start of the epidemic. But he would agree that November is possible - in Wuhan area only, though - the numbers would be extremely small (like 1 case, of course) at that point.
 
Trying to look through through web sites on the early history of COVID-19 and how it jumped from bats to people is a sea of mis-information including many conflicting stories and conspiracy theories.
It does feel like some entities might be trying to hide the truth by flooding the internet with "fake news" to keep people from concluding what actually happened.

The mainstream media had reported it was some intermediate animal (like Pengolins) that caught it from bats and spread it to humans in the Wuhan "wet (food) market", but I see a lot of information suggesting it could have come out of the bat-covid research labs going on in Wuhan. It does seem rather curious and coincidental that the outbreak started in Wuhan, but the expected source of this virus would be in south China. So it seems probable (to me) that someone brought the virus from another part of China to Wuhan and then (accidentally?) infected people there.
It seems well established that Wuhan was the "center of the universe" for studying this type of virus in their newly built lab which was very close to the Wuhan "wet market."
So many different theories were floated including:

#1: It was genetically engineered, modified SARS (But I think most experts think this is naturally occurring, not a lab creation.)
[ Also, if it was genetically modified, it could have been research/study on trying to find cures for a potential thread, not some sort of 'weapon'. ]
or
#2: The lab was studying a new SARS mutation and somehow it got out of the lab into the local population.
or
#:3: Someone in the lab went a little crazy and intentionally released it.
or
#4: Some researcher in a lab got contaminated when handling infected research bats and didn't self quarantine properly.

Has there been some consensus conclusion on all this, or are we still wondering just what happened?
Maybe the labs intending to prevent this sort of thing may have (inadvertently) caused it instead?
 
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Fauci says in interview that his social distancing advice was ignored for a month by trump.
Obviously, but some people have to hear it before they can start to think up spin or lies.

Fauci confirms New York Times report Trump rebuffed social distancing advice

I find the trumper counter-argument that the China travel ban should be emphasized in grading trump laughable.
385 thousand travelers came to the US from China in January before the travel ban was put in place late January. And New York was infected by Europe. Who remembers that the moron in chief exempted parts of Europe with his business dealings when he (much) later banned European travel ?

That's because Trump thought the earth was flat. ;)
 
So that timeline makes sense with the other people claiming cover-up due to Wuhan labs looking for people to study novel-new-corona virus in December.
The labs probably knew right away and were trying to figure out if this was something they released by mistake (so keeping it quiet) and see what advice they can offer to stop the spread. What a mess.
You are a moderator. Start you own conspiracy theory thread and be the first poster.
 
So that timeline makes sense with the other people claiming cover-up due to Wuhan labs looking for people to study novel-new-corona virus in December.
The labs probably knew right away and were trying to figure out if this was something they released by mistake (so keeping it quiet) and see what advice they can offer to stop the spread. What a mess.

No that does not necessarily follow. It takes considerable time for an epidemic to become visible to the healthcare system. How long did it take in the United States, with the “best” healthcare system - and we even knew to look for it? It started spreading in Seattle in mid-January and was not identified until late February.

Late November is the earliest possible timing for the index case.

It’s not like China was blameless or anything (in January they probably could have behaved differently - but let’s not fool ourselves that the US gov’t would not be blaming them even if they had behaved perfectly), but never ascribe to malice that which can be adequately explained by incompetence (or ignorance/lack of vigilance in this case).
 
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I only wear a mask if I'm going inside a building (which I've only done a few times in the last month). My area has low enough density that I can stay 10+ feet away from people while walking around. Yes, to all the other stuff.

I'm beginning to think that universal contact tracing through smartphones is the only solution. It's just a marketing problem to convince everyone to buy in. Bring on the surveillance police state. :p
Maybe turn off people's cellphone service when they leave the house if they don't opt in. People can't live without their phones.
I'm really not looking forward to a couple years of lockdown. It would take New York months at the current completely unsustainable rate to build up herd immunity. There's no way we can get the medical supplies to do that for the entire country and I doubt the hospital workers would be very supportive of that plan.

I can leave the house without my phone and often do. The people most likely to not comply can and will too.
 

Yeah. Seems reasonable and quite pedestrian. As far as the source...I have not paid much attention but Trevor and others have said that it does not have the required hallmarks which would be apparent if it were engineered. It’s not a good enough spike protein or something along those lines. You can search out the explanations from reliable sources if you want - I read them a month ago or more. I’m not a virologist, or a biologist, so I can’t say one way or another with certainty, but I just rely on trusted sources for this.