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Coronavirus
- Thread starter Wenche
- Start date
I didn't mention there's a bright side to these tragic statistics: Understanding a problem is the first step to solving it.
COVID-19 is killing thousands of Americans because most Americans are chronically ill due to unnatural living, primarily diet. Overwhelming scientific evidence now shows that all common chronic diseases (obesity, heart disease, stroke, diabetes, hypertension, common cancers, and many others) are primarily caused by excess animal foods and high-calorie low-nutrient processed foods. Nearly 70% of middle-aged Americans are being medicated for their diet, because mainstream medicine has few incentives for teaching patients how to eat rather than pushing pills, and because most doctors know little about nutrition except to sneer at it, due to their drug-and-surgery-dominated education.
HOW NOT TO DIE: The Role of Diet in Preventing, Arresting, & Reversing Our Top 15 Killers | NutritionFacts.org
https://www.amazon.com/How-Not-Die-Discover-Scientifically-ebook/dp/B00Y7USB14/
But a backlash has been building for years. The huge growth of fake-meat sales is one sign. These processed products are not nutritionally ideal, but can help folks transition to whole plant foods. Another sign is the huge growth of so-called alternative medicine (aka complementary, integrative, functional, holistic, naturopathic), despite its near total lack of insurance coverage. Many alternative doctors are little better than conventional ones, because they mostly push different pills (nutritional supplements) instead of healthy foods. But their proliferation suggests a vast sea-change is coming. COVID-19 could accelerate that.
Global Complementary and Alternative Medicine Market Is Set For Swift Growth, To Reach Around USD 163.3 Billion by 2025
Right now, dying COVID-19 patients are being saved with nutrients (vitamin C and others) in China and at least one NY hospital system. The safety and effectiveness of high-dose intravenous vitamin C is well established for other types of viral pneumonia (and many other conditions), and clinical trials are underway in China to confirm those results for COVID-19. The new trial results are due this fall. If they become widely known (via Internet, because drug-dominated media and government are unlikely to do it), the sea-change could happen fast. If most people find out that all the deaths and suffering from COVID-19, and all the vast economic damage from shutdowns, could have been avoided with cheap and available nutrients, a very great anger could arise. And the population and medical industry could be dragged, kicking and screaming, toward health and safety from future waves of COVID-19 and other pandemics.
Cheng Integrative Health Center Blog
New York hospitals treating coronavirus patients with vitamin C
Protected Group Immunity, Not a Vaccine, is the Way to Stop the COVID-19 Pandemic
Bring on the sneers from retired doctors here.
Last night I wrote that clinical trials are underway in China to confirm for COVID-19 the enormous evidence showing safety and effectiveness of high-dose intravenous vitamin C for viral infections. And I speculated that results from the new trials could accelerate a sea-change in public attitudes toward drug-based medicine, when the results are released this fall.
Well, we might not have to wait until fall. The news about IV-C is already spreading, at least among doctors who care more about saving lives than sneering at vitamins.
...on March 11, the Japanese published an intravenous vitamin C protocol, and released an educational video explaining the use of high-dose oral vitamin C (1000 mg 3x daily to bowel tolerance) along with other essential nutrients to protect against COVID-19. [32] ...
...on March 12, the Government of Shanghai stated that China is now officially recommending that high amounts of intravenous vitamin C be used to treat the novel coronavirus COVID-19. [33] ...
...On March 24... the New York Post reported that Northwell Health, New York state's largest health system, which operates 23 hospitals there, were treating "seriously sick" coronavirus patients with intravenous vitamin C, and were using it system wide. [34] Dr. Andrew Weber, a pulmonologist and critical-care specialist at the hospital, said that the treatments were started based on work done with coronavirus patients in Shanghai, China....
In Seattle, emergency physician Dr. Ryan Padgett contracted COVID-19 with severe pneumonia and was saved over several days in the period March 12-23 by the application of high-dose intravenous vitamin C along with a drug approved to treat cancer, both for the purpose of blocking the life-threatening "cytokine storm" in the lungs. [35] And in Richmond, Virginia, Dr. Jeff Brown also contracted COVID-19 with severe pneumonia, was given hydroxychloroquine, which didn't help, and was finally saved by the same combination of cancer drug and high-dose intravenous vitamin C. [36,37] In Houston, Texas, an experimental combination of intravenous high-dose vitamin C and drug treatment for patients with COVID-19 with severe pneumonia has been working exceptionally well. Dr Joseph Varon said, "To date, we have 0% mortality at United Memorial Medical Center. Zero percent. I know it's too good for people to believe in this but it's working." [38]
Moreover, a group of critical-care doctors widely spread across the United States has set up a website that provides an explanation, a press release, and a protocol for the treatment that they have used to effectively prevent patients with severe COVID-19 pneumonia from needing a ventilator and from death. [39] They implore doctors to use the protocol or a similar one on COVID-19 patients at the earliest opportunity after admission to save lives. [40]
...on March 12, the Government of Shanghai stated that China is now officially recommending that high amounts of intravenous vitamin C be used to treat the novel coronavirus COVID-19. [33] ...
...On March 24... the New York Post reported that Northwell Health, New York state's largest health system, which operates 23 hospitals there, were treating "seriously sick" coronavirus patients with intravenous vitamin C, and were using it system wide. [34] Dr. Andrew Weber, a pulmonologist and critical-care specialist at the hospital, said that the treatments were started based on work done with coronavirus patients in Shanghai, China....
In Seattle, emergency physician Dr. Ryan Padgett contracted COVID-19 with severe pneumonia and was saved over several days in the period March 12-23 by the application of high-dose intravenous vitamin C along with a drug approved to treat cancer, both for the purpose of blocking the life-threatening "cytokine storm" in the lungs. [35] And in Richmond, Virginia, Dr. Jeff Brown also contracted COVID-19 with severe pneumonia, was given hydroxychloroquine, which didn't help, and was finally saved by the same combination of cancer drug and high-dose intravenous vitamin C. [36,37] In Houston, Texas, an experimental combination of intravenous high-dose vitamin C and drug treatment for patients with COVID-19 with severe pneumonia has been working exceptionally well. Dr Joseph Varon said, "To date, we have 0% mortality at United Memorial Medical Center. Zero percent. I know it's too good for people to believe in this but it's working." [38]
Moreover, a group of critical-care doctors widely spread across the United States has set up a website that provides an explanation, a press release, and a protocol for the treatment that they have used to effectively prevent patients with severe COVID-19 pneumonia from needing a ventilator and from death. [39] They implore doctors to use the protocol or a similar one on COVID-19 patients at the earliest opportunity after admission to save lives. [40]
If you refuse to read anything on Orthomolecular.org, you can find the above-mentioned website here:
Frontline COVID-19 Critical Care Working Group
If you can't believe any of this because you haven't heard it from CDC, FDA or mainstream media, I ask you to consider the possibility that a powerful industry (pharmaceuticals) is protecting its business model with the time-honored methods of regulatory capture, media censorship, and disinformation. Is that possible?
Is "tobacco science" possible? Or climate denial? Or media bias against Tesla?
bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
Not the F-ing Vit C argument . . . again.
@bkp_duke must read fast. He/she somehow clicked all my links, considered and dismissed the evidence, and posted a GIF in only 3 minutes.
linux-works
Active Member
NB: they didn't start out being black lights...
bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
Considering it's not the first time you, or someone else has posted this stuff, yes I'm sure I've read all those.
This BS is up there with anti-vaxers and flat-earthers.
EDIT - here's a hint:
There are only 4 vitamins you can "super load" your body with. A, D, E, and K. They are the fat-soluble vitamins (and they are all the ones you can overdose on).
All the others, including Vitamin C, you PISS OUT if you get more than your RDA. Literally, the human body cannot store any excess. If you are deficient, you can quickly replenish your stores with a single dose, but that's the extent of it.
If you had "read all those", you would not (I hope) be posting false information.
If you are deficient in vitamin C from severe infection, such as when your level goes to zero during viral-induced sepsis, you can not orally replenish your stores fast enough to survive. IV-C is required to prevent or reverse the cytokine storm that destroys the lungs in COVID-19.
Here are quotes from scientists rebutting a disinformation article on the Internet:
Margreet Vissers, Professor, Centre for Free Radical Research, University of Otago:
The story of vitamin C and infections, particularly viral infections, is a very hotly contested area, and unfortunately for many years lots of claims have been made both by proponents and skeptical medical doctors that are not founded in fact. Fortunately in the past few years much better scientific data is available and we should concentrate on this and review it carefully. The papers cited in the article are mostly quite old and are criticised for this reason (not always fair). Here’s what I think is pertinent to the coronavirus discussion:
- It is now well established that vitamin C is rapidly turned over in our bodies when we are sick, and that the normal daily intake of around 200 mg per day is nowhere near enough to keep up with demand. This is particularly the case for respiratory illness and sepsis. Also, the sicker you are, the more vitamin C is required to maintain your body’s supply. This amount was shown to be around 6 g per day for the severely ill[1].
- Some recent studies have indicated a remarkable survival advantage when critically ill patients are given vitamin C. These studies have generated a lot of interest and there are a number of clinical trials underway at the moment[2].
- We now know that vitamin C is necessary for dozens of critical body functions that require the body stores to be adequately maintained, and that we should maintain levels above 50 μM in plasma to achieve this.
However, prevention is quite a different matter than treatment. We really have no idea whether having more vitamin C will prevent anyone contracting the coronavirus. However, as it is a viral pneumonia, there is a distinct possibility that additional vitamin C may help with treatment. There are no studies with this virus that show this, but some benefit has been suggested with other severe respiratory illnesses. The clinical trial in China should address this issue.
Anitra Carr, Associate Professor, Department of Pathology and Biomedical Science, University of Otago:
People with severe respiratory infections, such as pneumonia, have depleted vitamin C status, partly due to the enhanced oxidative stress that occurs during the inflammatory process[3]. Administration of recommended dietary intakes (e.g. up to 200 mg/day) of vitamin C to these people is not sufficient to overcome the enhanced utilization of the vitamin[1]; they instead require intravenous administration of gram doses (i.e. 2,000 mg/day)[4].
One recent clinical study has indicated that intravenous vitamin C may be able to decrease mortality in patients with severe pneumonia[5], which is a major complication of COVID-19. Clinical trials are currently underway to assess the effects of high-dose intravenous vitamin C in patients with COVID-19, however, the results from these studies are not likely to be available until later in the year[6].
No, the Shanghai government has not recommended intravenous vitamin C as a treatment for COVID-19
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Norbert
TSLA will win
The day cut off by COVID Tracking seems to cause larger extremes than that of worldometers, which is above 1,100 both today and yesterday.
Norbert
TSLA will win
Norbert
TSLA will win
Crucial point. Who dies from covid-19 alone? If that were over counting, the whole thing would be a hoax.
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AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
It's not clear to me why you think % of population tested is the most important metric, as the size of the outbreaks are not necessarily proportional to country population, so correlation of % of population tested to lower CFR won't hold up well. Countries that have large populations with small outbreaks will end up with low % of population tested but may still have very robust coverage. (Examples: Vietnam, Jordan, Thailand, South Korea)
In any case I did not exclude Iceland - I just told you why their CFR number is very low - it makes a lot of sense - they kept the disease out of the elderly, which may have been easier due to the way they are structured, or just luck, or by early anticipation of the issue (no idea).
No. Probably 15-20k.
No, about 10 million or so, as I said earlier. If you can provide me some evidence of your claim of claim of 100M/330M = 30%, please let me know. Even the most fantastically optimistic surveys of Santa Clara (which is wrong) with their 50x prevalence claim, if that 50x undercounting applied across the country, would only yield 15% (which is definitely wrong, since NYC is only at ~20%).
Just trying to come up with a ballpark estimate. Seems like Iceland establishes a lower bound of 0.6%, and you could scale that to an actual "IFR" assuming a well known denominator, based on how the disease affected different age groups, and then apply that same weighted scaling to other populations assuming equal attack rates in all age groups. (If you do this, taking the Iceland data and applying 25% death rate to 80-89, 4.8% death rate to 70-79, 0.93% death rate to 60-69, and 0.34% death rate to 30-39, (these are the Iceland percentages, which are obviously super noisy and inaccurate) you get a US IFR of 1.29%, by the way - but the Iceland data is way too small a dataset to have this be an accurate extrapolation (wide confidence interval) - they had no deaths of anyone between 40 and 60 years old, for example, and 0.35% of 30-39 year olds dying is certainly too high.)
Iceland is going back today to allowing gatherings of up to 50 people, by the way. Guess it's gone. Hair salons, dentists, etc. are open. High schools, universities open. Children's outdoor sports are basically good (less than 50 kids). Bars still closed. Restrictions to be gradually lifted starting 4 May
Not sure why you think Germany is relevant, but I included it.
Anyway, Russia is going like gangbusters too (added it here). It's kind of critical to them since oil prices have also crashed, it's somewhat existential for them...also it's probably a Russian plot so they were ready.
Just posting the updated chart with the data you requested - note that Test/PerMillionPop does not correlate well at all with CFR. While more tests per death correlates well with reduced CFR (due to better control of the denominator). It also correlates well with a reduced epidemic length, though I haven't looked at that here.
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‘And are any of those neighbors or yourself attending concerts, theme parks and sporting events like we all were during Swine flu?
Quite hilarious that your powers of perception are not great enough to detect any differences.
Yessiree Bob. No differences at all!
Norbert
TSLA will win
You keep misrepresenting that "consensus", and it is becoming unacceptable because you keep painting us as unrealistic alarmists.
1M+ was always a scenario of no mitigation at all, and in that sense, I think most (or many) of us maintain that scenario. We don't consider that to be proven incorrect at all.
For the recent, actual level of mitigation (before the re-openings), our predictions were much lower. We criticized the IHME model for being too optimistic (when it was in the 60K+ range), but as of today, even the IHME model now switched to predicting more than 130K deaths. My previous guesstimate, which felt like a bit of a stretch when I made it (which I felt was necessary to post because the public seemed to believe the 60K+ numbers), is now on the optimistic side of even the updated IHME model. (I haven't updated my guesstimate for the upcoming re-openings yet).
You seem to be of the opinion that recent mitigation was completely ineffective, but nobody here agrees with that, and you have no sources for that either. That's not even close to even potential proof of that scenario above, or anything else, being wrong.
Your examples are of ignored social distancing, but that doesn't change the fact that schools, universities, non-essential businesses, sport and music events, bars and nightclubs, and many other things have been closed.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
That's nonsense. Everyone knows its all about Vitamin D.
That's why hot countries have less Covid deaths than cold countries (there is even a hilarious paper on this on r/Covid19).
MXLRplus
Active Member
I don't want to discount the intravenous vitamin C treatment for the virus, but where are you buying small enough needles to inject it into the virus? I'm not even sure my hands are steady enough.
But this what I truly love about Vitamin C; it is the medical equivalent of duct tape, it can fix anything, anywhere. And if a little of it works, then a whole roll will really do a great job.
But this what I truly love about Vitamin C; it is the medical equivalent of duct tape, it can fix anything, anywhere. And if a little of it works, then a whole roll will really do a great job.
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AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
My guess is that it's likely too optimistic for the August 4th date, still. I'd think we'd hit 130k deaths in early July sometime. Guess we'll see. Hopefully infections taper off rapidly and things actually end up better. I think it's possible to get less than 130k deaths but seems unlikely. We'd have to see rapid and steady continuing case decline and continued increase in testing to over 500k per day, very soon.
Should I believe you with no link to any evidence whatsoever, much less a randomized double-blind controlled clinical trial published in a peer-reviewed journal?
Would you?
Sneering is not a substitute for facts, logic or credible evidence.
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