Coronavirus

[jerry33]

Same challenge in Europe but they reacted fast here and inform people over the radio and TV and bring enough recourses on phone lines to make sure people are taken care of. So, the entire virus story may even help the US to step up to standards you have in developed countries. Sorry, sounds strange as the US is a developed country but with respect to healthcare if you are poor or middle class I am not that sure.

The cost issue you refer to is to say it politely, ridiculous. The cost for the US with every infected person that is not treated and taken care about early on is very high so asking me the Government should make funds available to cover all of this. May sound unrealistic but not doing it would be really foolish.

Here you never really get to see your doctor. At best you see a nurse in the doctors office or an medical assistant. I think the last time I saw my doctor of record was 1998. The doctor is much to busy running a business to actually see any patients or practice medicine. (I get a number of emails from my doctor geared to tummy tucks for ladies with a poor body image.) Calling is a waste of time under normal circumstances. You get a recorded answering system that basically tells you to go to the ER if it's serious, and often says you can only call (to reach a live person) on certain days even though they are open every weekday.

 

[lascavarian]

Washington state has declared a state of emergency to free up funds. King County (Seattle area) has activated their EOC or Emergency Operations Center. The EOC is an artifact of civil defense conceptually. It can coordinate county level first responders ++ and facilitates communications where cross functional coordination is required.

Our local EOC is security controlled and located on the top of a hill (good RF coverage) and partially buried.

From the news conference, testing again appeared as an issue. Their early tests were being done in Altanta. Now tests can be done locally but are considered "presumptive" until confirmed.

The interesting question from a reporter was related to there not being any cases confirmed Friday morning and now, a day later, there are 6 cases and 1 dead.

 

[EVNow]

Sorry, sounds strange as the US is a developed country but with respect to healthcare if you are poor or middle class I am not that sure.

The entire presidential election is around this now. They call the guy who wants to ensure universal insurance a communist.

Anyway, if CV19 turns into a pandemic, one positive outcome will probably be an acceptance by the powerful that universal healthcare is needed.

 

[plumazul]

Calling a doctor in the U.S. is pretty much a joke. Best practice for the U.S. is probably to stay home like @avoigt said, hope you have just a mild case, and can live without the income for the time you're at home. For most people there is a choice between dying of something serious or becoming homeless.

Calling may indeed be a joke but there are businesses like this.

 

[Right_Said_Fred]

Sheri Fink on Twitter

Further information on the possible coronavirus outbreak at Life Care in Washington State provided by
@DocJeffD
. Facility has about 108 residents/180 staff. Approx 27 residents and 25 staff have symptoms. Two confirmed (one health worker and one resident).

It was clear that there had to be more undetected cases in the US. So far they had identified only 4 cases of community spread and one of those people died. With a (presumed) mortality rate of 1% you would expect one hundred cases (ofcourse one case is not enough to draw any statistical conclusions).

I wonder if the US is more at risk because some people with symptoms do not see a doctor because they cannot afford it. Others do not call in sick because they do not get paid during sick leave, so they continue working and infect co-workers and customers.

 

[Cherry Wine]

The entire presidential election is around this now.

My concern is that the administration continues to take the politically expedient actions ("don't test don't tell") as opposed to the correct actions for this very reason. Fortunately, or unfortunately, the virus will find them out if they try that route. I suppose it already has.

 

[cwerdna]

I listened to this story.
As New Coronavirus Cases Slow In China, Factories Start Reopening

E FENG: That's Cloud Zhao, a sales director at the company. Restarting production was a lengthy process. They first had to provide local officials a full list of all employees.

ZHAO: (Through interpreter) This list is analyzed by the public security bureau. And using big data, they determine which workers are safe and can come back to work in the factory.

E FENG: By big data, Zhao is referring to a new government app developed to help control the spread of the virus. Workers enter their national ID number and phone number. The app then spits out which cities and provinces the worker has visited in the last two weeks. If they've passed through a heavily infected area, they must quarantine for two weeks before they return to Xusheng's production line. And that's just the first step.

That's an interesting ummm... "benefit" to the Big Brotherism over there.

I hadn't thought of this angle before:

E FENG: Chen also recently imported South Korean manufacturing equipment for a new production line and needs the Korean engineers who designed the tools to help install them. But now that South Korea is reporting ever-rising numbers of new coronavirus cases...

CHEN: (Through interpreter) They can't come to China. Before, they didn't dare; now they're not allowed.

E FENG: So now the equipment is just sitting in his factory unused. Chen says long-term plans are now impossible to make. The situation is just changing too fast.

 

[lascavarian]

I wonder if the US is more at risk because some people with symptoms do not see a doctor because they cannot afford it. Others do not call in sick because they do not get paid during sick leave, so they continue working and infect co-workers and customers.

I used to travel the EU regularly a decade or so ago. When I would explain how I had to work at my employer for 20 yrs to get 5 wks vacation it would seem unreal to them.

Taking time off for illness is looked down upon. One day they dropped off a sheet on every desk from personnel that confirmed that we understood that we could be fired at any time for any reason or no reason, completely legal. It is slightly better now but historically it was brutal at times. It seems a mindset with some generations.

 

[AZRI11]

This is gonna sound like paranoia so take this with a grain of salt. At my workplace in Mansfield Massachusetts we have about 60 employees and at least 4 have developed pneumonia in the last 4 weeks. I'd say close to half have had a cold in the same time frame. Two more called in sick yesterday, one of the two has never called in sick in the 12 years I've worked with him. First employee to develop pneumonia lives in Sharon Mass. Many physicians live there some of them are Chinese. I know I'm being paranoid, but I've had a bug for a week now (upper respiratory) not that bad, haven't gone to a physician yet. In conclusion, I believe it's been spreading for a least a month in the USA. Where's my tin foil hat? One of the people who did go to a doctor and was diagnosed with pneumonia has 8 people in her household, they all got sick only she had pneumonia, this employee suffers from Sarcoidosis. She is lucky to have not been hospitalized. I'm nutz, but that's besides the point seriously everyone take good care of yourselves.

 

[guidooo]

Well, guess where the masks for the world are produced? In China! An of course they have a supply issue right now and can't deliver. The mask you buy hinders someone in the world that may have the virus to get one.

Asia is gearing up facemask production faster then you can buy them.

Only if you have the virus you should use and buy a mask.

Looks untrue to me.... Also because

People usually catch it with their hands and when they touch their face next the virus is near your mouth or nose and can enter.

Even if you dispute the fact that a facemask could prevent transmission through breathing, it does prevent your hands touching your mouth/nose area unintentionally.

Actually one of the few things about Corona that bothers me is the total unpreparedness or willingness of western society to deal with it on the preventive side to avoid quick spreading (As far as I know, in the Netherlands, only when we see a confirmed case, spreading from that particular case is mitigated)...

It shouldn't be difficult to slow down a spreading significantly. But in the Netherlands, I even haven't seen something as simple as freely available hand sanitizer in (semi) public areas, expect the toilet area where it usually is. Maybe we think it costs too much..... Or it cann't happen to us....

 

[lascavarian]

I know I'm being paranoid, but I've had a bug for a week now (upper respiratory) not that bad, haven't gone to a physician yet.

COVID-19 as i have heard is more lower respiratory so not sore throat or sinus so much but not a Dr so YMMV.

 

[EVNow]

I'd say close to half have had a cold in the same time frame.

This is the problem. There will be a hundred normal cold cases for every CV (actually a lot more). That's what makes this difficult.

Now that we have a CV related death nearby - we are debating how much to go out. Decided not to go to Costco today - will go on Monday when there are fewer people. Didn't go to a mall food court for lunch that kids wanted to.

 

[SarahsDad]

Very interesting (and sobering) 2017 Smithsonian article about the Spanish Flu.

How the Horrific 1918 Flu Spread Across America | History | Smithsonian Magazine

Eerie similarities to our current situation, including the delayed/dishonest governmental response. I would not suggest reading this if you tend toward paranoia - you may not want to leave the house.

 

[Right_Said_Fred]

This is the problem. There will be a hundred normal cold cases for every CV (actually a lot more). That's what makes this difficult.

Now that we have a CV related death nearby - we are debating how much to go out. Decided not to go to Costco today - will go on Monday when there are fewer people. Didn't go to a mall food court for lunch that kids wanted to.

Also a problem: how do you identify those few corona cases among those hundreds of normal cold cases? The CDC just sent California 1,000 test kits, but I wonder if that is enough if community spread gets worse and hundreds if not thousands of people start seeing their doctors about their cold and respitory problems.

 

[Snapdragon III]

I don't want to say much in a public forum, but it is worse on the ground than this article implies. Expect more confirmed cases soon.

2YXV65ZP6VBSZDVX53SUWXLYYU

 

[Right_Said_Fred]

I wonder if corona is going to break Trump’s back. Bloomberg just bought 3 minutes of air time during prime time on the big national channels to talk about corona and Trump. Corona could become Trump’s hurricane Catherina, especially if it turns out the administration dropped the ball on this one.

 

[SageBrush]

For people who continue to try and draw parallels between CoronaVirus and Influenza, here is a nice primer on the mechanisms underlying influenza genetic diversity
Genetics of the Influenza Virus | Learn Science at Scitable

I don't really know if laypeople can read this but have a go, and I"ll try to answer questions along the way.
Once that is under your belt we can discuss the important ways that CoronaVirus are different.

Not your cup of tea ?
OK, then just take this message home: the two virus families different in multiple, important ways and it is silly to draw comparisons.

 

[SageBrush]

Antigenic drift is what makes the flu require a new vaccine every year, so it is highly clinically consequential.

It is much more than that. See my post above for a primer.

 

[avoigt]

While # of people infected in Germany not surprisingly continue to increase it may be interesting to hear that in the TV news (not private but Government funded) the news about the Corona Virus comes in the meantime on rank # 8th.

On German websites its not a headline any more too its now just one news out of many.

That will of course change if new exciting developments appear but it does show that its not the #1 news any more.

People are calming down and I hope that to continue.

 

[KarenRei]

One thing that's interesting that I saw in the news here in Iceland was about how home quarantine is done. A lot of people may be hesitant to call in a possible COVID-19 case out of fear about being stuck in their bedroom for weeks, like it's a prison sentence. But at least here in Iceland:

• You can go outside - just not near people.
• You can go for a drive - just so long as nobody shares the same car at the same time or within a given length of time of you using it
• You can go for walks - with restrictions in populated areas, but with no restrictions in the countryside. Main rule just being to avoid close proximity to others.

It's important that people know these sort of things so that they don't fear quarantine. If you feel bad, take your temperature. If it's high, call a doctor. Don't be afraid of being quarantined.