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Define "reliable,"
and
Understand the difference between droplet and airborne.

You can also go back in this thread and read the links I provided from medical studies that showed surgical mask efficacy in reducing spread during other respiratory droplet infections.

Let me put this in manner a layperson should be able to understand:
Given a choice of social distancing of 3 or 6 feet, which do you choose ?
Is either distance "reliable" ?

There is another, very important advantage of wearing a mask to cover your mouth and nose - it effectively prevents the wearer from touching their own mouth and nose. Touching infected surfaces and then touching your face is often the way many infections spread. We are repeatedly told to wash our hands and avoid touching our face/mouth/nose area to avoid infections. But, touching your face, rubbing your nose is often a subconscious mannerism that people are accustomed to. They do it without even realizing they are doing so.

Well, wear a mask and you simply cannot touch your mouth and nose, not unless you do it with intention.

Last weekend I wore a surgical mask while grocery shopping - less than 10% of the folks shopping were wearing a mask. That was also my first time wearing a mask. It was an eye-opener how many times unconsciously my hands would go to my face. Even more educational - I struggled to open those thin plastic bags that you get from a roll dispenser. It seems that previously i was just in the habit of touching my finger to my tongue to wet it and then easily open the bag by rubbing between the moist fingers. Yikes - sounds really gross now, but I am certain I am not the only one. Well, wear a mask, any mask, and you won't be doing that again!

So, wearing a mask reduces your chance of infection in more ways than just filtering out droplets!
 
There are about 2 million police officers and firefighters in the USA. How many are infected? How many will be infected in the near future? PPE shortage is the biggest problem. First responders will keep spreading this virus, even with our country locked down. Nurses and Doctors will mostly spread it inside health care facilities. This is a cluster f@#*
 
France still has a either an abnormally high death rate or an abnormally low infected rate. Either way those numbers look anomalous.

View attachment 528159
Keep in mind that France introduced very drastic quarantine measures very early on (maybe because of the realisation that their early hot spot in the Elzas shouldn’t spread in that magnitude to the rest of France). As a result, their death rate is lower than in Belgium and The Netherlands. So what you call an ‘abnormally high death rate’ may actually be a low death rate when this thing is over.
 
There are about 2 million police officers and firefighters in the USA. How many are infected? How many will be infected in the near future? PPE shortage is the biggest problem. First responders will keep spreading this virus, even with our country locked down. Nurses and Doctors will mostly spread it inside health care facilities. This is a cluster f@#*
Police officers have already largely vanished from the freeways here.

Good for Tesla owners in one way, I suppose. The new speed limit is now 80-100 mph in WA state.
 
that's not a 3rd option, low testing rate is a cause for one of the two options I mentioned.

France still has a either an abnormally high death rate or an abnormally low infected rate.

Note: I mean as displayed in the table, not in number of people that are actually infected.

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/attachments/upload_2020-3-31_22-44-54-png.528159/

The fact that they remain anomalous in that table should earn them a mark with footnote or a different color row to highlight how bad those numbers are compared to reality or compared to other countries (either way via insufficient testing or high death rate).

Compared to China, France might have less testing so far, but perhaps will catch up.
Compared to the US, the US might be in an earlier phase where there are not as many deaths yet, but the outbreak is larger.
 
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It's at least 33.

From the captain's letter:

"As an illustration, of the first 33 TR Sailors diagnosed with COVID-19, 21% (7 of those
33) infected Sailors were negative on a test, then subsequently presented with
of COVID-19 infection within 1-3 days post-test."

I don't have any doubt that that many (more than 5) would die. There's no magic bullet for this disease. I'm assuming "let it rip through the ship" means that everyone on board gets it, with that number. Young people die, quite commonly, and as far as I can tell it is not always limited to co-morbitities. And of course there are older sailors on the ship as well (35 and up).

I've no doubt there are more than 33 sailors who have, or had, the virus. As I said in my initial posts, Navy ships are basically plague boats.

But I highly, highly doubt that even 5 sailors will pass from the disease from the ship, let alone 15.

Lets look at the statistics. Worldometers has roughly 95% of the population who test positive, have minor symptoms. We're going to ignore that the data is likely skewed to severe cases since a lot of areas won't test you without showing severe symptoms (ie; Oregon) and use that as a base line. So, if all 4k sailors get it on ship, that would end up being 200 people who have more severe reactions.

To get the possible death cases, we have to break up those 200 people into age brackets. Theoretically, most will be the older members, but we can't guarantee that little ol' Booter SN Schmuckatelly won't have the same reaction, so lets look at the over all age differences of the ship, and use that to extrapolate. I don't know the TR's demographics first hand, but we can use the over all US navy demographics as a base line. It will be skewed to younger on ship in reality. The career of a Sailor goes "Sea duty, shore duty, sea duty, shore duty" on average, but 'sea duty' could also be non-ship going locations, like my own in Souda Bay. Those locations most often go to 2nd sea tour sailors because it's nicer and the Navy doesn't always try to screw us. Not always, mind, but it tries when it can.

45% of the Navy population, in 2017, was under 25. 26-30 is another 21%, 31-35 is another 15.1%, and 36-40 is 10.4%. Added together that's 91.6% who are 40 and under. Multiply 91.4% to 200 is 16 people who are not the younger generation and may be a higher death rate, so 184 young who are severe, and we'll say for argument that the 16 people are in the age range of 40-70. I highly doubt someone aboard is older than 70, since you have joining age limitations, and career limitations. Join limit is 35 for enlisted (and the join age drops significantly after 25, we had two 30+ people in my 200 person boot camp troop, and one dropped out mid-way), and 36 years enlistment--so about 70 max. Officers are a bit different, but older ones tend to be doctors on shore duty at a hospital, or admirals in the pentagon, not aboard a ship.

Worldometer has a death percentage* chance for members 10-19 is .2%, 20-29 also .2%, as well as 30-39%. 40-49 is barely more at .4%, but for this guess we'll use the 39 and under at .2%. We'll average the death rate of 40-69 to make life easier (though it'd really be skewed towards younger, again) and get 1.8% for the older group.

184* .2% is 0.368 of a person, so rounded to NONE. 16* 1.8% is 0.288 of a person, so rounded to NONE. Even combined it's less than 1. Even attributing it to entire 4k people sick, 336 older, 3,664 younger, * respective percentages directly, it's only 7.3 for young and 6 older. So, combined, rounded to 15.

However, you have to remember that no only is the population young, but that they are also screened for health prior to being assigned a ship (as in, you actually go to medical and see a doctor, screening). They don't even having nursing mothers, or pregnant sailors aboard a ship--they're removed once the pregnancy is determined, and sent to shore duty (the Ike baby notwithstanding). Worldometers also has a list of conditions that make you more likely to die if you catch the disease--largely each are disqualifying status for service, let alone service on a ship. Cardiovascular disease, diabetes, chronic respiratory disease, cancer, etc. As blunt as it may be, the Navy doesn't want sickly people in it's force (such as cancer). It's too expensive to treat when they can just replace that person, and they need able bodies. Such members are generally denied entry if found prior, or quickly terminated if discovered after.

So, we'll remove the preexisting condition percentage from the higher 15 bodies count, since they'd over all not have it. 2 removed for cardio, 1 removed from diabetes, 1 from chronic resp, 1 from Hypertension, and 1 from cancer. 6 removed total, so 9. At most. The meter has a no preexisting conditions modifier at 0.9%, so the 9 is probably still too high; it'd likely be 1.35, rounded to 1 person.

That's IF the entire ship gets it, and IF they get it all at roughly the same time, and IF they can only get enough medical responses to match the civilian sector, and IF the ship doesn't go underway, and IF the attributing numbers are all combined into one perfect death storm. This isn't even calculating the fact that ships are, as a whole, trained for disaster response (being a military fighting unit) so they'd be able to triage in a much more organized manner, and they're a part of the federal government who can and will simply order/take other government people to assist/supply. Guam even has a military hospital, not a clinic, a full hospital.

I'm not saying some won't pass, worst case, but it'll be significantly less than the population at large. That's why I'm interested in how this ship handles it. The ship gives a pretty much opposite bias case than the cruise lines had, with the tight quarters and younger, healthier, mostly isolated population.

*Worldometer isn't percentage of those who have died, but percentage of a given age of dying. Since this example is built off everyone getting it, it's applied as a blanket number.
 
The IHME forecast for the peak deaths per day number already seems to have gone up, since the White House task force presentation, 1 day later:

In the WH presentation, the peak deaths per day were expected to be:
2,214 on April 15.

The current number I find on the website is:
2,607 on April 16.

I'll non-scientifically predict that it will be pushed further back and further up.
 
That report was from 4 years ago. What's taken them so long if the results were so good?

They are on the market. Italy has been buying and a few US hospitals. Simple device with limitations. No Electronics, dirt cheap, seems to use an oxygen connection. Patient communication may be better. I think they are approved. Link was mostly for the picture since unfamiliar to me but interesting technology.
 
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That sounds like he is quite confused.
Assuming that the disadvantaged people will have a higher death rate than others, the Florida Governor is likely following the "eliminate poverty by eliminating poor folks" strategy. Which is why he doesn't want to take any action unless it's more-or-less mandated.
 
I think this question was asked in the briefing today (do the fatality projections account for lack of ventilators) and I think it was conveniently not answered (as I recall). You'd have to check the transcript.

It seems possible that we might not run out of ventilators. I might be succumbing to the happy talk though. We'll see I guess.

What I "heard" was a bit vague, but that they don't make the availability of ventilators part of the model. That would be difficult to predict anyway, since they attempt to move them around, make more, and so on. Also they seem to hope that there won't be a big shortage.
 
Lol....how do you think all that Whole Foods stuff got in the bags? Someone that's been roving around a supermarket 8 hours a day for this entire pandemic touched every single item, and then you brought them into your house. That's like sharing a beer at a bar with an ER nurse.

Going to Whole Foods would probably be better.
Especially now that Whole Foods is limiting the number of people in the store and taking a few other measures that I haven't seen in other stores. Even then, you should use the dirty surface, clean surface method: Divide a table in half. Sanitize both halves. Put the groceries you just brought in (this is only the ones that are perishable, the others you don't bring in till you need them--if that's not for several days, they are now likely decontaminated). Wash fruits and hard vegetables (such as squash) for twenty seconds with soap. For items in containers (such as milk) or plastic bags (such as frozen veggies), spray with surface sanitizer and then transfer to the clean side of the table. For items in packages with an inner package, open the package and dump the inner package on the clean side (it's unlikely to have been touched by a human) Note the outer packaging must not come in contact with the clean side surface. When all the contaminated items have been sanitized and are on the clean side, get rid of the items (bags and boxes) that remain on the dirty side. Sanitize the dirty side, sanitize your hands again, put away the items that are on the clean side.
 
Just a quick thought I told my wife before we head off to do our 'essential jobs'......

It would be nice to get info on CEOs, actors, sports players etc., the people who can (afford to) truly isolate, to see how the curve flattens for them vs. our rocket of a chart....
 
https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/pdfs/UnderstandingDifference3-508.pdf

Surgical masks:
Does NOT provide the wearer
with a reliable level of protection
from inhaling smaller airborne
particles and is not considered
respiratory protection
I could be wrong, but I see it this way:

Masks are multipurpose. They capture much of the water droplets you emit involuntarily. They intercept larger droplets. And they remind people there is an infectious disease on the prowl.

Perhaps it's like helmets. You don't wear them in cars on the street, even though head injuries are the most common fatality.
You wear a toy helmet on a bicycle.
You wear a good helmet on a motorcycle.
You wear a great helmet in a race car.

To save the most lives, all helmets should be racing helmets and all vehicles should require them. But we don't do that. And people die because of it.

But, racing helmets are such a PITA (ever put a HANS on? ughh) that people would only wear them in the most dire situations. A bicycle helmet is not a hassle.

Until real N95's become widely available, they are best reserved for first responders and medical staff.

Tidbit - The goofball that came by to check my compressor for taxation a week ago was wearing a 3M N95 mask. This is a California State Employee who should not have been working to begin with. So at least California believes in masks for non-critical employees.
 
There are about 2 million police officers and firefighters in the USA. How many are infected? How many will be infected in the near future? PPE shortage is the biggest problem. First responders will keep spreading this virus, even with our country locked down. Nurses and Doctors will mostly spread it inside health care facilities. This is a cluster f@#*

Until America considers our industries to be important for our survival, it will get worse not better. We went from the #1 medical supply company in the world to producing <5% of the masks, and <2% of the gloves. And that's just those two items. When I opened my lab, nearly all my customers made their medical products in the USA. Now very few do. They export the mfr'g. We still stay busy because we do validation of the devices regardless of where they are made. In fact we stay busier because many imports are tragically poor quality.

We should have built up a strategic reserve of medical supplies after the last great flu pandemic. And subsidize companies to keep tooling and jigs ready for the next outbreak. Hopefully we learn the lesson this time.
 
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