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insaneoctane
Well-Known Member
All the data I have seen indicates tesla battery packs are the best in the industry. Low capacity loss for mileage or time... due in no small part to their excellent thermal management. I certainly looked into this when I first began looking at EVs. I think I might agree with you if we were discussing Nissan Leaf(s). I have convinced myself that with a Tesla I should be good past 200K miles before battery replacement might become a consideration. I am not saying it can't happen, I am saying that there is not data to support the concern being likely with a tesla
EDIT: I wrote this before I see that @SageBrush linked to the actual data. I might be late to the party, but there seems to be some agreement.
voip-ninja
Give me some sugar baby
FUD
It's not FUD. The model 3 uses a lower end battery than what is in the model S/X and it will eventually wear out and require costly replacement. All lithium batteries will. Will that be at 120,000 miles? 150,000?
The primary thing for owners to realize is that range will degrade over time and with the number of these cars that will be produced eventually some aftermarket options that cost less should be available.
Are you doubling down on your FUD or do you have references for the bold statement?
davedavedave
Member
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
My pleasure.Very good! Thanks for walking me through that
I call it my personal LCOE analysis for dummies (like me.)
Two points I should have clarified though:
1. Panels degrade by the year but easily last 35 years if from a quality manufacturer. I plopped the degradation data into a spreadsheet and came up with 30 years at new production as an equivalent value. An integral is a simpler way to solve the question for those so inclined.
2. Missing from the analysis is the possibility of inverter failure. Nowadays warranties are often 15 if not 20 years and their costs are dropping rapidly so I don't feel bad about ignoring them.
insaneoctane
Well-Known Member
JeffK
Well-Known Member
Consider that the Bolt 60 kWh battery is only $11,895.12 right now today.
Battery Assembly - GM (24285978)
Who knows what 60 kWh would cost in 15 - 20 years when your battery finally degrades to the point you'd want to replace it.
Unless I'm mistaken, we also have no idea what the annual service costs are for Model 3 yet.
According to edmunds 2017 BMW 3 Series 2.0L 4-cyl. Turbo 8-speed Automatic True Cost to Own
The maintenance on a BMW 3 series is $5,765 over 5 years...
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SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
xmetal
Member
I don't have a Tesla yet, but have had a Leaf for over 2 years and honestly, I struggle to see the cost reflected in my monthly power bill. Sure, it's there, but with a family of 4 in the constant-AC-running SW Florida with constant clothes-washing and dish-washing, electric hot water and 8-hours-a-day pool pumps, a few extra bucks for the car is barely noticeable. We use the Leaf for most of our day-to-day but also make use of free power at the mall, downtown, etc and rarely run the car down to 0 anyways, so I do not expect my Model 3 to be much different. While technically not true, I almost think of the Leaf as "free" to operate.
JeffK
Well-Known Member
Positive, it's the entire battery assembly part number 24285978
How much is a replacement Chevy Bolt EV electric-car battery?
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WhiskySTL
Member
I recommend getting a job where the office has free EV charging... Then your cost is $0, except for when you take off work and/or take the 3 on a road trip.
JeffK
Well-Known Member
You know my work has a few spots available, but see, I'd feel bad for all the little leaf owners who might not even be able to get back home without that charge at work...I recommend getting a job where the office has free EV charging... Then your cost is $0, except for when you take off work and/or take the 3 on a road trip.
mmd
Active Member
Then you haven't taken a look at your bill recently
The current EV rate in both plan A & B (separate meter) are no less than $0.12 from 11 p.m. to 7 a.m. Then add 5% tax. Rate plan B requires a separate meter ( ~$2k up front cost). Both bump up the rates for the peak and part-peak period, whennormal people actually live a life. There was also chatter about PG&E rate going up 11%.https://www.pge.com/tariffs/tm2/pdf/ELEC_SCHEDS_EV.pdf
OP's consumption is very low. If he moves to these EV -plans, his regular usage will then become lot more expensive because of his EV charging. This is exactly the stuff I argued about in another thread a while ago. If he just sticks to non-EV plan, he may get pushed into higher tiers, which will increase the per KWh rate for his charging at home.
There will be practically no saving; definitely negative saving compared to good hybrids. But I am surprised to learn that Tesla has already started exaggerating the gas savings for Model 3. They did it for years for Model S&X. Gas prices went down, but Tesla never adjusted those savings enough. Why does Tesla need to do this for Model 3? I thought they are trying to anti-sell it to reduce the queue for Model 3.
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That's my issue as well. The PG&E EV plan is useless for nearly everyone in my area, but me in particular.
We work from home. That means we need the a/c on during peak hours. The EV plan will kill us. This is also a bedroom school age community. Which means tons of stay at home parents and/or nannies taking care of school age kids. Who you don't want roasting after school. They can't really use the EV plan either. The other big population are the people in the giant active senior communities, who also are home during peak hours a lot. In this area, the PG&E EV plan just isn't viable.
I'm thinking that, economically, the best course of action is to just do most of the charging at a local Supercharger station and top off at home. Most people here gas up at the Costco gas station. Which is right on the other side of the freeway from the Supercharger. That one is gonna get slammed.
We work from home. That means we need the a/c on during peak hours. The EV plan will kill us. This is also a bedroom school age community. Which means tons of stay at home parents and/or nannies taking care of school age kids. Who you don't want roasting after school. They can't really use the EV plan either. The other big population are the people in the giant active senior communities, who also are home during peak hours a lot. In this area, the PG&E EV plan just isn't viable.
I'm thinking that, economically, the best course of action is to just do most of the charging at a local Supercharger station and top off at home. Most people here gas up at the Costco gas station. Which is right on the other side of the freeway from the Supercharger. That one is gonna get slammed.
mmd
Active Member
And you wonder why PG&E sends $500 to EV owners
Instead of being hostage of oil companies, EV drivers become hostage of utility companies I don't know if you are planning to buy or already own a Model S/X or 3. With model 3, supercharging is not free. I think $0.20/kwh or something, but no one knows the rate for Model 3 yet. Frequent charging may also constitute 'supercharger abuse', even if you pay for it. But the inconvenience of visiting a SC and possibly waiting for a spot + charging will far outweigh the couple of dollars you will save. Your best option is to install solar, if that is viable and your home is suitable for that. But that complicates the equations further.
BTW, how exactly are you planning to go to Costco while your car will be charging at a super charger across the Freeway? Are you by any chance talking of Costco in Fremont next to I-880 across Tesla factory? Also, do not forget the supercharger fees for over staying.
david_42
Member
Unfortunately, with an electric water heater, dryer and heatpump, time of day rates would actually increase my bills by $15. I looked into putting a timer on the water heater, but only the sites that sell them say there is a savings.
JSkrehot
Member
I did a 6.12 kW self install solar system from gogreensolar.com. I have 40 days left until I hit my 1 year solar production mark and I have so far produced 9.3 MWh (already 100 kWh more than what they estimated my yearly total to be!!!!), that is just under 2,000 more kWh than I have used (even running my AC all day basically as my wife works from home and I am a 12 hour RN with 4 days off each week). I also get 8 hours of free charging at work, so 24 hours/week, at 30 miles/hr, that is 720 miles/week, which I won't fully drive as my work is like 8 miles away, multiply that by 42 weeks after deducting 10 weeks vacation, that is 30,240 possible free miles from work charging. My work charging allows me to keep my car at 80-90% and charge at any time during the day or night at home with what will be greater than 2,000 excess kWh's from solar. When I get my Model 3 in Feb-Apr 2018 (per Tesla estimator), I should be driving that beauty for free!!Then you haven't taken a look at your bill recently
https://www.pge.com/tariffs/tm2/pdf/ELEC_SCHEDS_EV.pdf
View attachment 243966
View attachment 243967
OP's consumption is very low. If he moves to these EV -plans, his regular usage will then become lot more expensive because of his EV charging. This is exactly the stuff I argued about in another thread a while ago. If he just sticks to non-EV plan, he may get pushed into higher tiers, which will increase the per KWh rate for his charging at home.
There will be practically no saving; definitely negative saving compared to good hybrids. But I am surprised to learn that Tesla has already started exaggerating the gas savings for Model 3. They did it for years for Model S&X. Gas prices went down, but Tesla never adjusted those savings enough. Why does Tesla need to do this for Model 3? I thought they are trying to anti-sell it to reduce the queue for Model 3.
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