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Could Tesla be power limiting P3D?
- Thread starter Perry
- Start date
My 12 year old son loves it and often asks me to take him on one of my spirited mountain road drives after I pick him up from school. My wife and daughter though get sick after just two turns so I never take them.Could you imagine being a passenger in this dude’s car?
@Perry -After some testing last night at 40 degrees F(300 battery miles worth) I agree with your assessment, Tesla definitely has throttled the P3 normal mode and I am a bit concerned, mainly for the P3D Stealth folks because they cant access track mode. It feels like the full throttle capability has been limited such that only 2-3 full throttle runs are possible before power limitation. It looks like track mode allows much more power and heat for longer. The new "Normal mode" is very much not prepared for real 10/10ths driving. I really hope they release Track mode soon for you folks too.
Other P3D folks should try this themselves, and drive a spirited 8-9/10ths safely for 5-10 minutes, especially up a grade. I don't pretend to be the last data point. Others should try this themselves, as its only been 2 weeks since TM was released.
I am quite sure that before track mode there was more heat capacity in my P3D+. None of my previous canyon runs found the power limitation so quickly. The last time I went on a drive like this was just before track mode was released. However I admit I wasn't looking at the dots before either, just enjoying the ride.
I could repeatably hit the heat soaked point in 2 minutes or less making mad rushes from 20-80 while in normal mode. If I repeatedly went WOT 20-80 then slowed to 20 it only took 2-3 accelerations or about 30 seconds to cause power limitation. If the car wasn't being driven hard previously then it was more like 60-90 seconds and 5-7 rushes from 20-80.
When I switched on Track Mode, it was completely different. With a car that hadn't been driven very hard it would take 6-8 minutes to heat soak with similar acceleration. When the power limitation dots did show up, they went away pretty quickly, cruising at sporty speed, just not driving the car hard for a few minutes but still driving.
That said, I went from the quarry park to the mountain store in 15 minutes driving 8-9/10ths in TM after supercharging in los gatos. Saw 777 wh/mi average, and that was averaged over 30 minutes with 15 minutes of speed limit driving from the LG supercharger to the park in saratoga. I only saw power limiting dots at the very end in boulder creek just past the abandoned school. I only found 4 cars going up and over, and all pulled over quickly.
In Normal mode the dots were pretty slow to go away under normal driving, and really wanted to be parked for a few minutes to remove 4 dots. If the car was really being driven hard, switching from track mode to normal would immediately show up to 8 dots, that level of heat would take several minutes to totally clear and get back to 0 dots.
TL/DR : P3D Stealth folks can't get track mode and I think lost a significant ability to drive fast before getting the power limiting dots.
Other P3D folks should try this themselves, and drive a spirited 8-9/10ths safely for 5-10 minutes, especially up a grade. I don't pretend to be the last data point. Others should try this themselves, as its only been 2 weeks since TM was released.
I am quite sure that before track mode there was more heat capacity in my P3D+. None of my previous canyon runs found the power limitation so quickly. The last time I went on a drive like this was just before track mode was released. However I admit I wasn't looking at the dots before either, just enjoying the ride.
I could repeatably hit the heat soaked point in 2 minutes or less making mad rushes from 20-80 while in normal mode. If I repeatedly went WOT 20-80 then slowed to 20 it only took 2-3 accelerations or about 30 seconds to cause power limitation. If the car wasn't being driven hard previously then it was more like 60-90 seconds and 5-7 rushes from 20-80.
When I switched on Track Mode, it was completely different. With a car that hadn't been driven very hard it would take 6-8 minutes to heat soak with similar acceleration. When the power limitation dots did show up, they went away pretty quickly, cruising at sporty speed, just not driving the car hard for a few minutes but still driving.
That said, I went from the quarry park to the mountain store in 15 minutes driving 8-9/10ths in TM after supercharging in los gatos. Saw 777 wh/mi average, and that was averaged over 30 minutes with 15 minutes of speed limit driving from the LG supercharger to the park in saratoga. I only saw power limiting dots at the very end in boulder creek just past the abandoned school. I only found 4 cars going up and over, and all pulled over quickly.
In Normal mode the dots were pretty slow to go away under normal driving, and really wanted to be parked for a few minutes to remove 4 dots. If the car was really being driven hard, switching from track mode to normal would immediately show up to 8 dots, that level of heat would take several minutes to totally clear and get back to 0 dots.
TL/DR : P3D Stealth folks can't get track mode and I think lost a significant ability to drive fast before getting the power limiting dots.
paranoidroid
Member
It sounded like Perry said the A/C kicked in before to reduce dots quickly before, but that is not the case now. Perhaps Tesla changed the algorithm (inadvertently?) in normal mode for the recent update. It sounds like a regression that could be quickly fixed, I wonder what the best way is to get Tesla's attention on this.
Well if it was the sensor then he would not get the dot’s, he would overheat and melt the car. I think Tesla decided that for 99.99% of people reduced power was better than a noisy fan (99% of people would call complaining about a noisy fan as an isuue, but not notice reduced power). For those people that are pushing it really hard and want to continue (with a noisy fan) there is TM. Thanks software update. Unfortunately P3- does not have TM yet, TM will fix the problem. My 2c from a 260w/m P3- owner that has never seen reduced power dots.
paranoidroid
Member
This could be why they changed it, but then there is no option to cool things as previous but keep all the stability safety nannies on. I would prefer it if Track Mode gave us this level of configurability. Separate the cooling options from the stability options.
diamond.g
Active Member
Well TM should be a LOT more. Sliders for TC from off to 100%, front motor from off to 100%, a line lock, a launch, a regen slider, a regen delay slider, a mirror mode that displays all the cameras so you can take the mirrors off, a temp sensor indicator for all things that would reduce power so we can see where to adjust driving to keep within limits. It’s endless and promising, but super disappointing as a P- owner waiting.
I would not be surprised if they are limiting power at all. The S 75D is 518hp using the same capacity battery but different motors. I was disappointed we didn't get 500hp in the P to be more than anything else in its class and also get down to about 2.9sec 0-60. I wager that we could see an Insane Mode option to unlock the remaining 70hp, but it would be nice if it were just available on tap, not just for a launch mode.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
They don't though.
The fact folks swapping the P3D- from all seasons to sticky, wider, performance tires don't get any better 0-60 times proves the car isn't close to traction limited with current power.
Just a quick note, If you run the car constantly hard and that’s your day to day driving style, it’s possible you could have damaged the batteries. These cars are meant for speed but not on a constant never ending basis. They run the same batteries as all model 3’s and can get damaged with over heating/use.
Try constant video editing on a new iPad and run the battery hot non stop for a few weeks straight and you’ll see degradation in that time that most will see in years.
Try constant video editing on a new iPad and run the battery hot non stop for a few weeks straight and you’ll see degradation in that time that most will see in years.
I concur with some recent comments. I think what we see here is that after the excessive accelerations, after the recent firmware update, Tesla most likely implemented a safeguard for battery endurance and lifespan against these high battery discharges. It probably so happens that @Perry hit the newly implemented threshold of battery lifespan vs acceptable discharges.
I'm also guessing Supercharges also effected the battery's lifespan due to the high discharge and recharges. I wonder, is 120 kW still obtainable?
I'm not surprised if Tesla techs determined that everything is normal. After all, the battery management system is supposed to normalize the battery cells. I wonder what the Service Center isn't telling Perry about the quality state of the battery. Revealing such would be detrimental to the battery warranty though.
I'm also guessing Supercharges also effected the battery's lifespan due to the high discharge and recharges. I wonder, is 120 kW still obtainable?
I'm not surprised if Tesla techs determined that everything is normal. After all, the battery management system is supposed to normalize the battery cells. I wonder what the Service Center isn't telling Perry about the quality state of the battery. Revealing such would be detrimental to the battery warranty though.
paranoidroid
Member
I have a lot of experience with lithium cells in high power scenarios in other hobbies. The Model 3 has such a large pack, even driving the car hard is actually still a low C discharge rating for the cells that it shouldn't damage them. Even so, it's heat that degrades and the A/C should kick in to cool.
I think someones comment on making less noise during the A/C cooldown could be the reason for the change.
I think someones comment on making less noise during the A/C cooldown could be the reason for the change.
Jedi2155
Model 3 has Arrived.
Someone pulled the CAN bus data on a supercharge for a Model X100, and the peak temperature on the cells is around 40C during supercharge. Definitely not great but far from being terrible.
I agree with your entire assessment. I experienced the exact same thing minus the Track Mode which I don't have. My point was that before, my P3D- behaved more like Track Mode behaves for you now. I had a really had time getting the dots, not for lack of trying. And when they came after at least 40+ min of heavy driving they would go away in seconds just by letting up without having to stop. Now I get them after 2 minutes of heavy driving and have to stop for 2 minutes for them to go away.
I have been wondering the same. I tried to schedule a service appointment. They called me and said they did remote diagnostics and nothing was wrong. I tried my hardest even showing them proof with videos and they did not take me seriously and canceled my appointment.
Yea but I've had the car for only 2 months, and 6 weeks of that have been in the service center. How poorly made are these cars that the battery got damaged in a few weeks. Are you saying that I've put a life time (20 years) of ware on the batteries in a few weeks. I have less than 2000 miles on the car.
The other thing is that the fan no longer goes on when I get the dots. Why would that be if the battery was bad? If anything they should run more. Before the fan use to be glaringly loud and cooled the dots of in seconds.
paranoidroid
Member
Perhaps you should make a good concise video (less than 1 or 2m) explaining and describing the issue, then put it on youtube and send an email with Executive escalation with a short writeup and link to video.
I did more tests today. I noticed that sometimes when I push the car hard the fan goes on loud and others times it does not (same conditions). When the fan goes on loud I have a very hard time getting the dots no matter how hard I push it and this is how it used to behave all the time. Now this happens only about 10% of the time. The other 90% of the time the fan does not go on or if/when it does it is supper quiet. It is those times the heat soaking happens very quickly (2 minutes). So my conclusion is that my fan is not broken but there is a screwy algorithm, probably released with one of the last updates, that prevents the fan from engaging properly like it use to. In such instances not only is the heat soaking immediate but recovery from it is horrendously slow (sat by the side of the road for 5 min).
@Vines - have you taken account of how loud your fan is when you're getting the fast heat soaks?
