CPUC NEM 3.0 discussion

[RKCRLR]

Have solar prices fell actually? Prices I've seen have been higher than 2021 actually. Tesla prices, independent installers, all higher.

I wasn't talking near-term but further down the road as the technology improves.

 

[RKCRLR]

The utilities know this; which is why they've been amping up the campaign that 100% grid defection is very difficult and expensive. Those that share the IOU's perspective insist that as long as a home ever needs one microsecond of the grid, then the home needs to pay its fair share.

They use that normal playbook an abusive partner uses to keep victims around. They find a few reasons why they provide positive benefit and extend that to an all-encompassing "you're nothing without me ... blah blah blah".

Like look at h2ofun. Even with a ton of batteries and solar, he needs PG&E in the winter time to get energy. And he involves PG&E in the summertime for NEM. So PG&E says "See, you need me, you can't leave. And if you can't leave, then you need to be under my thumb because that's how things work around here."

The abusive mindset that PG&E uses then allows PG&E to ignore any avenues of self improvement to actually behave like an efficient and well intended PoCo. They have no reason to do things better because they hold the monopoly power while ratepayers are just idiots with cash. So PG&E can keep bribing for favorable policies, grifting through inflated PPAs, and telling ratepayers to pay up more $ since they're handcuffed to the PoCo.

That's sort of the point. Right now they have a captive audience since it isn't economically feasible to go off grid because of winter conditions. And they are trying to add fees that disproportionately impact solar customers. But if I tripled my solar and added a couple more batteries I could make it through the winter with fewer outages than I currently get from PG&E. Not a good ROI now but if utility rates continue to increase like they are now it may be a good ROI in the future.

 

[STS-134]

It will be interesting to se how this all plays out in the future. As utilities continue to raise their rates and solar+storage prices continue to fall we could get to a crossover point where it is cheaper to be off-grid than on-grid. This would be especially true for people that need backup power anyway due to the unreliability of the grid. Some places have requirements that a house has to be connected to the grid but many places don't. As people start defecting from the grid the burden of grid maintenance would fall on fewer people which would be a problem for many urban areas.

The solution to that is everyone should pay for grid maintenance, regardless of how much or little energy his or her houses use. Grid maintenance should be paid for through taxes, not through utility bills, and utility bills should reflect only the cost of providing the electricity (generation/transmission but NOT grid maintenance). So regardless of whether you are connected to the grid or not, you still pay for it. Just like you pay taxes to support the aqueducts even if you don't have water service.

 

[RKCRLR]

The solution to that is everyone should pay for grid maintenance, regardless of how much or little energy his or her houses use. Grid maintenance should be paid for through taxes, not through utility bills, and utility bills should reflect only the cost of providing the electricity (generation/transmission but NOT grid maintenance). So regardless of whether you are connected to the grid or not, you still pay for it. Just like you pay taxes to support the aqueducts even if you don't have water service.

I agree, but that doesn't seem the way we are heading. And even though we have aqueducts we still have water utility bills that charge for both connection and consumption. And when people are asked to conserve (and do conserve) the bill doesn't go down because of the increased charge.

The problem is as the costs go up it is a regressive tax on the lower income population so they provide subsidies to reduce those costs. The problem with that is they get those subsidies from people that are less impacted by the cost increase so their cost rises disproportionately. And those are the very people that would have the means to go off-grid if the ROI is there. The solution is to decrease costs for everyone but that is going to be hard with our current system.

 

[sunwarriors]

The main technology I want is vehicle to grid. If someone had a normal long range EVs with a 100 kWh battery, that's a massive power source that will allow you to ride out most things assuming you don't hit a week of total no sun.

This is area dependent of course, but I notice in So Cal, I get enough sun that winter wasn't really a problem since there is normally sun every other day worst case. No AC use helps a ton.

 

[holeydonut]

The main technology I want is vehicle to grid. If someone had a normal long range EVs with a 100 kWh battery, that's a massive power source that will allow you to ride out most things assuming you don't hit a week of total no sun.

This is area dependent of course, but I notice in So Cal, I get enough sun that winter wasn't really a problem since there is normally sun every other day worst case. No AC use helps a ton.

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2022/10/chevy-silverado-ev-to-offer-bidirectional-charging-capability/

Too bad it's partnered with SunPower, which means they won't touch a Tesla or Sunrun Poerwall system.

 

[h2ofun]

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2022/10/chevy-silverado-ev-to-offer-bidirectional-charging-capability/

Too bad it's partnered with SunPower, which means they won't touch a Tesla or Sunrun Poerwall system.

I just love all these announcements, but seems most if not all do not ship for at least a year.

 

[holeydonut]

I just love all these announcements, but seems most if not all do not ship for at least a year.

I've got a reservation and a pile o' cash waiting for either a Cybertruck or Silverado EV. One of these bloody trucks needs to come out hahaha.

 

[MJ_CA_2019]

I've got a reservation and a pile o' cash waiting for either a Cybertruck or Silverado EV. One of these bloody trucks needs to come out hahaha.

I have a reservation for a Silverado EV and our PV + Powerwall install was done by a SunPower installer.
I couldn't wait though and bought a 3/4 ton Diesel this summer If the Silverado EV takes long enough I might buy it as well.

 

[Sky Blue]

The solution to that is everyone should pay for grid maintenance, regardless of how much or little energy his or her houses use. Grid maintenance should be paid for through taxes, not through utility bills, and utility bills should reflect only the cost of providing the electricity (generation/transmission but NOT grid maintenance). So regardless of whether you are connected to the grid or not, you still pay for it. Just like you pay taxes to support the aqueducts even if you don't have water service.

I would support maintaining the grid with taxpayer dollars if the state owned and operated the grid. But where I live, PG&E owns "the grid", not the taxpayers. And as long as the grid belongs to private, for profit corporations like PG&E, SDG&E, and SCE, I think those corporations should pay to maintain their own property.

 

[RKCRLR]

I have a reservation for a Silverado EV and our PV + Powerwall install was done by a SunPower installer.
I couldn't wait though and bought a 3/4 ton Diesel this summer If the Silverado EV takes long enough I might buy it as well.

So far I haven't seen good reviews for EV trucks hauling or towing for long distances. I need a 1 ton truck to haul my camper and boat. I'd need to be able to get to the campsite and the campsite would need to have the capability to recharge my truck.

 

[Dave EV]

So far I haven't seen good reviews for EV trucks hauling or towing for long distances. I need a 1 ton truck to haul my camper and boat. I'd need to be able to get to the campsite and the campsite would need to have the capability to recharge my truck.

Getting way off topic here, but how big/heavy are your camper and boat and how much range do you need between charges?

The TFL YouTube channel just compared the Hummer EV and Ford Lightning - at the end of the day the huge battery in the Hummer makes it a better towing vehicle. Of course, that thing weighs nearly 10,000 lbs and it's almost a semi-truck in terms of weight. Probably need 300+ kWh batteries to be decent tow vehicles - the Hummer has a 200 kWh battery!

Back to your regularly scheduled programming!

 

[holeydonut]

Getting way off topic here, but how big/heavy are your camper and boat and how much range do you need between charges?

The TFL YouTube channel just compared the Hummer EV and Ford Lightning - at the end of the day the huge battery in the Hummer makes it a better towing vehicle. Of course, that thing weighs nearly 10,000 lbs and it's almost a semi-truck in terms of weight. Probably need 300+ kWh batteries to be decent tow vehicles - the Hummer has a 200 kWh battery!

Back to your regularly scheduled programming!

Even further off topic random musing... how come people with Tesla Model X's don't really use that for towing? It supports up to a Class III hitch/rating, but I've never seen anyone tow a fishing boat, ATV, or other smaller load with an X. And nobody ever complains "goddamn EVs suck at towing" with an X.

 

[sunwarriors]

Even further off topic random musing... how come people with Tesla Model X's don't really use that for towing? It supports up to a Class III hitch/rating, but I've never seen anyone tow a fishing boat, ATV, or other smaller load with an X. And nobody ever complains "goddamn EVs suck at towing" with an X.

My speculation is buyer makeup. Tesla X buyers are typically not towing people to begin with. I've never seen an X nor Y tow anything as well actually now that folks mention it. I'm sure there are some, but haven't seen them on the road (the few times I'm on the road).

 

[ohmman]

Even further off topic random musing... how come people with Tesla Model X's don't really use that for towing? It supports up to a Class III hitch/rating, but I've never seen anyone tow a fishing boat, ATV, or other smaller load with an X. And nobody ever complains "goddamn EVs suck at towing" with an X.

I see plenty of people towing with their X. Obviously I tow a camper, and have for the last 6 years. I've seen others pulling boats as well. I was once approached by a state trooper while fixing my LED adapter in Mt. Shasta, and he told me he towed his boat to Shasta Lake but had a hard time making the round trip in his X90D.

Most probably don't purchase them when they think "tow vehicle," but it's an excellent one.

 

[holeydonut]

I see plenty of people towing with their X. Obviously I tow a camper, and have for the last 6 years. I've seen others pulling boats as well. I was once approached by a state trooper while fixing my LED adapter in Mt. Shasta, and he told me he towed his boat to Shasta Lake but had a hard time making the round trip in his X90D.

Most probably don't purchase them when they think "tow vehicle," but it's an excellent one.

So your range doesn't take a major dive? And you are fine on your normal planning/range for trips?

Like there's that vid of a F150 Lightning towing an empty aluminum trailer and it's range dropped by like 1/3.

 

[Zabe]

I would support maintaining the grid with taxpayer dollars if the state owned and operated the grid. But where I live, PG&E owns "the grid", not the taxpayers. And as long as the grid belongs to private, for profit corporations like PG&E, SDG&E, and SCE, I think those corporations should pay to maintain their own property.

They do and then they send you the bill.

 

[Zabe]

So your range doesn't take a major dive? And you are fine on your normal planning/range for trips?

Like there's that vid of a F150 Lightning towing an empty aluminum trailer and it's range dropped by like 1/3.

Average Joe is pretty much not very smart. Even in a gas/diesel powered truck your mileage goes way down when towing. They are literally complaining that the computer range calculation is screwed up when the exact same thing happens in a dino fueled vehicle. Idiots...

 

[RKCRLR]

Getting way off topic here, but how big/heavy are your camper and boat and how much range do you need between charges?

The TFL YouTube channel just compared the Hummer EV and Ford Lightning - at the end of the day the huge battery in the Hummer makes it a better towing vehicle. Of course, that thing weighs nearly 10,000 lbs and it's almost a semi-truck in terms of weight. Probably need 300+ kWh batteries to be decent tow vehicles - the Hummer has a 200 kWh battery!

Back to your regularly scheduled programming!

My truck camper weighs about 4000 lbs and requires a long bed. I'd decided I'm going to go with dual rear wheels next time because my weight loading is just too restrictive with single rear wheels. The boat I'd get would weigh between 3500-4000 lbs (my current boat weighs less). I usually have to fill up at least at least once to get to my destination.

 

[STS-134]

I would support maintaining the grid with taxpayer dollars if the state owned and operated the grid. But where I live, PG&E owns "the grid", not the taxpayers. And as long as the grid belongs to private, for profit corporations like PG&E, SDG&E, and SCE, I think those corporations should pay to maintain their own property.

Well yeah, obviously the state or cities should seize the grid and operate it themselves, because PG&E has proven that they aren't capable of doing so safely. Eminent domain exists for a reason. I want to see PG&E's lawyers trying to argue that the grid is not worth very much due to poor maintenance when they ask for rate increases while simultaneously arguing that it's worth a lot in the eminent domain case and the entire company getting called out on it in the courts.