Cruise control inappropriately slamming on brakes

[sleepydoc]

So, Toyota will kill you driving off the road and slamming into stopped cars

What are you talking about? I'm talking about adaptive cruise control - You're the one steering the car.

By the way, according to my experience, ACC without AP eliminates phantom breaking in Tesla.

I've tried using ACC with AP, without AP, as well as completely disabling AEB, object aware acceleration, and every other safety feature it can categorically state that it did not eliminate the problem.

As full disclosure, I'm on 2022.12.3.20, FSD 10.12, so I'm on an older version of the software. I don't know if there is any interaction between the TACC and FSD when FSD is disabled. Also, being in FSDb puts me on an older firmware version so it's possible that the newer ones have improved; I have no way to judge that personally until I get s software update.

Regardless, My bar for TACC is that it holds the car at the set speed unless there's a car in the lane in front of it. It's actually not that high of a bar, but Toyota meets it and Tesla doesn't.

 

[sleepydoc]

I do not understand that it is legal to drive a car on the road with a safty problem like that.

I was sooooooooooooo close to ordering a model y until I read and saw all the videos about autopilot, auto wipers and auto high beam which are all useless.

I am absolutely stunned that a company which constantly brags of there smart cars cant make these things work.

I have a 10 years old mercedes c, I have had it for 6 years and driven 100000 km in it.
The adaptive cruise control and lane assist have not failed once.
The auto high beam also have never failed.
Maybe 2-3 times a year the wipers will wipe for a short time when there is no rain.

Damn shame I really liked the car.

I would strongly recommend you check on renting a Tesla for a week to try it out for yourself. After owning a MY for 2 years, My major complaints are the crappy adaptive cruise control and a suspension that makes a horse and buggy seem like a Rolls Royce. If you're used to a MB C class I suspect you won't be thrilled with it. The automatic wipers are average in my opinion. The wipers in my Audi A4 were better but I've also had worse. Likewise I haven't had more than occasional issues with the auto headlights.

 

[nvx1977]

Yes it is my first post and yes I created the account today, the past week I have been searching like crazy for info on this and I found this forum.
I am definitely not a Tesla hater, I really wanted a model Y and as I wrote I was so close to place the order.
I am just very surprised and sad to find out about the problems with cruise control, auto high beam and auto wipers. It is not what you expect when you have a 10 years old car where it works flawless.

I do hope that some day they will find a way to make these things work so that I can get a Tesla

If you come to these forums for problems, you'll find tons of it. Doesn't exactly give a balanced perspective. The cruise control issues are blown out of proportion IMO. No it's not perfect, but it would hardly cause me to weigh it over all the other advantages a Tesla has to offer. Same with auto headlights and wipers. I have some minor gripes with them, but they are such superficial issues. If you can test drive a Y, you really should.

Also keep in mind that these issues that you might have with Tesla are not static as they are with pretty much any other car. Your car will be improving over time. I also encourage people to leave feedback with tesla regarding anything that doesn't work well. Sure complaining on these forums is cathartic, but no one at Tesla will act on it if you post here.

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[Boye]

If you come to these forums for problems, you'll find tons of it. Doesn't exactly give a balanced perspective. The cruise control issues are blown out of proportion IMO. No it's not perfect, but it would hardly cause me to weigh it over all the other advantages a Tesla has to offer. Same with auto headlights and wipers. I have some minor gripes with them, but they are such superficial issues. If you can test drive a Y, you really should.

Also keep in mind that these issues that you might have with Tesla are not static as they are with pretty much any other car. Your car will be improving over time. I also encourage people to leave feedback with tesla regarding anything that doesn't work well. Sure complaining on these forums is cathartic, but no one at Tesla will act on it if you post here.

Tesla SSO - Sign In

(log in, then submit your issue / feature request)

Yes you are right, you can read anything to death on any forum if it is problems you are looking for.
I have test driven a model Y and I liked it, that sound system and having my Tidal account on that big screen nearly made me shed a tear.
The thing is that one of the things I like most about my C class is the adaptive cruise control witch never fails or phantom brakes, so it is kind of a dealbreaker for me.
Unfortunately I do not think that they will be able to make it work without a radar, no matter how many sw updates they make.
I have now read several post witch states that auto high bean is not that bad, and it is great to hear. it is strange tough. I do not know if it is a regional thing but here in Denmark almost everyone turns it off because it keeps hitting passing cars with a high beam and when it doesn`t it takes a long time before it comes back on again.

 

[Dewg]

If you come to these forums for problems, you'll find tons of it. Doesn't exactly give a balanced perspective. The cruise control issues are blown out of proportion IMO. No it's not perfect, but it would hardly cause me to weigh it over all the other advantages a Tesla has to offer. Same with auto headlights and wipers. I have some minor gripes with them, but they are such superficial issues. If you can test drive a Y, you really should.

Also keep in mind that these issues that you might have with Tesla are not static as they are with pretty much any other car. Your car will be improving over time. I also encourage people to leave feedback with tesla regarding anything that doesn't work well. Sure complaining on these forums is cathartic, but no one at Tesla will act on it if you post here.

Tesla SSO - Sign In

(log in, then submit your issue / feature request)

It's why I try to post my positive experiences. I'm in a dense suburban area, so my experience is different from others in less dense, or rural areas. My auto-high beams work great, but they're not on too long when they do come on due to volume of traffic. My auto-wipers are great - just had a thunderstorm and they worked exactly as I'd expect. I still get phantom braking periodically, but much more gentle (1-5MPH) than it used to be.

 

[alexgr]

I've tried using ACC with AP, without AP, as well as completely disabling AEB, object aware acceleration, and every other safety feature it can categorically state that it did not eliminate the problem.

Are you saying that you had phantom breaking issues in TACC mode while steering the car yourself?

 

[alexgr]

If you're used to a MB C class I suspect you won't be thrilled with it.

a C class .... hmm ... considering I wasn't thrilled with GLS suspension.

 

[alexgr]

Yes it is my first post and yes I created the account today, the past week I have been searching like crazy for info on this and I found this forum.
I am definitely not a Tesla hater, I really wanted a model Y and as I wrote I was so close to place the order.
I am just very surprised and sad to find out about the problems with cruise control, auto high beam and auto wipers. It is not what you expect when you have a 10 years old car where it works flawless.

I do hope that some day they will find a way to make these things work so that I can get a Tesla

So, you say you decided against placing an order for a car based on messages on forum critical of operation of SECONDARY car systems.
You should be in a very hard position as I know of no vehicle that receives no criticism on forums for one or another secondary system operation.

 

[sleepydoc]

Are you saying that you had phantom breaking issues in TACC mode while steering the car yourself?

Yes - some time ago I started trying to figure out of phantom braking/phantom slowing was actually due to the AEB system, intrinsic to the TACC system itself or due to another safety feature that was erroneously activating. I disabled every safety feature I could think of and drove solely with TACC (steering myself) and still had random slow downs. They seemed to be somewhat less frequent, but given the random nature of them it was hard to tell. In any case, to the extent that I could take other systems out of the equation it appears that it was intrinsic to the TACC system.

I definitely have more when I'm using FSDb, but I chalk those up to the FSD system still being beta and don't count those.

Edit: If you are referring to Toyota's lane keep assist features, I've only used them once or twice on a rental car. I was less than impressed and ended up disabling them because it seemed like they actually made things worse. Regardless, Tesla's AutoPilot is far better than Toyota's lane keep assist.

 

[newcarbuyer123]

The safety problem is imaginary.

If it wasn't just drama queens over-reacting to the normal unexpected braking every such system does, and warns you about in every brands manual then there'd be actual reports of widespread accidents caused by it in Teslas.

There's not though. OTHER brands have had actual safety issues with numerous documented accidents and even recalls over this stuff-(I linked to many of them just a few posts ago)-- Tesla has not.


Interesting only-ever post from an account created today though

Yes it is my first post and yes I created the account today, the past week I have been searching like crazy for info on this and I found this forum.
I am definitely not a Tesla hater, I really wanted a model Y and as I wrote I was so close to place the order.
I am just very surprised and sad to find out about the problems with cruise control, auto high beam and auto wipers. It is not what you expect when you have a 10 years old car where it works flawless.

I do hope that some day they will find a way to make these things work so that I can get a Tesla

Have had a model Y two years and would recommend to anybody. But TACC and wipers are a problem. Don't use TACC much due to phantom braking and no not a 'drama queen' when the car suddenly brakes on the freeway for no reason.Never had another car do that. Lucky nobody was behind me when it happened a few times. Wiper control is poor. Both these issues should be fixed. But many positives to the car.

 

[newcarbuyer123]

Yes - some time ago I started trying to figure out of phantom braking/phantom slowing was actually due to the AEB system, intrinsic to the TACC system itself or due to another safety feature that was erroneously activating. I disabled every safety feature I could think of and drove solely with TACC (steering myself) and still had random slow downs. They seemed to be somewhat less frequent, but given the random nature of them it was hard to tell. In any case, to the extent that I could take other systems out of the equation it appears that it was intrinsic to the TACC system.

I definitely have more when I'm using FSDb, but I chalk those up to the FSD system still being beta and don't count those.

Edit: If you are referring to Toyota's lane keep assist features, I've only used them once or twice on a rental car. I was less than impressed and ended up disabling them because it seemed like they actually made things worse. Regardless, Tesla's AutoPilot is far better than Toyota's lane keep assist.

I also suspected having autosteer enabled increased chances of phantom breaking, so disabled it for good. Phantom braking using TACC seemed to be less frequent but still happened. This is all empirical from small sample size. Who knows. So don't use TACC much either. Safety first.

 

[Knightshade]

I bet Mazda and Nissan fixed the problem.

<citation required>

I do not understand that it is legal to drive a car on the road with a safety problem like that.

I do not understand why you have 5 total posts here, all today, 4 of them almost word-for-word copies of each other- all about how you don't understand how a problem you can't show has ever caused an accident is dangerous to the point of being illegal.

If you're a bot, someone overpaid to rent you.

I was soooo close to ordering a model y

until I read and saw the videos about autopilot, auto wipers and auto high beam which are all useless.

I saw a video about how global warming is causing bigfoot to move further north. Lots of amazing stuff on the internet that turns out not to actually be true. Might wanna look into learning to tell the difference.

I have a 10 years old Mercedes c, I have had it for 6 years and driven 100000 km in it.
The adaptive cruise control and lane assist have not failed once.

Weird.

Lots of other folks have had those problems in a Mercedes.

Almost like every brand of car with adaptive cruise has it or something

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/another-scary-phantom-braking-episode-captured-by-2022-mercedes-benz-cla-driver-192903.html

I was driving at 30 mph, and all of a sudden, the car decided to hit the brakes and halt. Any idea what could have led to it? Glad I didn’t have vehicles behind me else. It would’ve been a collision for sure

https://www.aboutautomobile.com/Consumer-Complaint/2022/Mercedes-Benz/S580/Automatic-Emergency-Braking

The contact owns a 2022 mercedes-benz s580. The contact stated while driving 35 mph, the vehicle experienced phantom braking with the active brake assist warning light illuminated.

2021 Mercedes Benz A-Class Problems and Top Complaints - Is Your Car A Lemon?

Reported issues for the 2021 Mercedes-Benz A-Class include brake & electrical problems. Lemberg Law can help you get lemon justice!

lemberglaw.com

Phantom braking. This has happened twice traveling past the same offramp. Since, I have turned the Speed Limit Adoption OFF. Note that this particular off ramp has more than one speed limit sign (yellow) visible from the freeway. My guess is that the Mercedes (car) is reading the offramp signs and interpreting them to be for the freeway and not for the offramp. I consider the sudden deceleration to be dangerous

 

[Kevy Baby]

I have 58K miles on my Model 3 and I feel safe saying that at least 90% of those miles have been with TACC.

1. The phantom braking is virtually gone. I have issues in two specific spots on my daily commute and since they are in EXACTLY the same place, I would think the issue stems from a map issue (but that is just my speculation).
2. While it is a bit surprising when it does happen, I have never experienced anything close to what one could call a "safety hazard" from phantom braking. The concept that a car BRAKING could be considering a safety hazard is a stretch (other than pissing off the driver behind you to the point of road rage and they shoot at you or something).
3. Auto Pilot is not a chauffer, it is a driver assistance tool: you are still responsible for the car. In fact every time you engage AP you get a reminder to maintain control and be aware.
4. Other than some occasional confusion (mostly when two lanes merge), Auto Steer works damned good as well. Just like TACC, it isn't perfect but it damned good.

And for anyone who maintains that AP is "dangerous", I counter with the utmost of confidence that it is still a better overall driver than you (oh, that one will stir some people up)

 

[Knightshade]

BTW speaking of safety-

Tesla Model Y receives top safety rating

Tesla continues to receive accolades for its safety ratings with the Model Y receiving the top safety rating from Australia's ANCAP.

electrek.co

Not only did Model Y score the top safety rating from Euro NCAP and Australia’s ANCAP- but ANCAP specifically gave the highest scores in automated safety systems to the Tesla, specifically for preventing or mitigating crashes.


Almost like the FUD OMG DANGEROUS narrative continues to be utterly unsupported by any actual facts and data or something.

 

[heavyD]

I haven't really travelled on the highway in my car but at 5:30 AM I use cruise on an expressway daily and haven't had any major issues outside of the car slowing down a few km/hr for no apparent reason when I come to an overpass. However a co-worker who just picked up his long range last week that lives 30 minutes outside of the city told me this morning he had his first phantom brake episode on the highway. No oncoming traffic or anything. Just slammed on the brakes for no apparent reason.

 

[Mikecm1]

I have 58K miles on my Model 3 and I feel safe saying that at least 90% of those miles have been with TACC.

1. The phantom braking is virtually gone. I have issues in two specific spots on my daily commute and since they are in EXACTLY the same place, I would think the issue stems from a map issue (but that is just my speculation).
2. While it is a bit surprising when it does happen, I have never experienced anything close to what one could call a "safety hazard" from phantom braking. The concept that a car BRAKING could be considering a safety hazard is a stretch (other than pissing off the driver behind you to the point of road rage and they shoot at you or something).
3. Auto Pilot is not a chauffer, it is a driver assistance tool: you are still responsible for the car. In fact every time you engage AP you get a reminder to maintain control and be aware.
4. Other than some occasional confusion (mostly when two lanes merge), Auto Steer works damned good as well. Just like TACC, it isn't perfect but it damned good.

And for anyone who maintains that AP is "dangerous", I counter with the utmost of confidence that it is still a better overall driver than you (oh, that one will stir some people up)

Have you updated your car to 24.6 yet, so your radar is disabled? I’ve had the same 9.8/10 experience with autopilot, and I’m really concerned that this update is going to rapidly drop my high opinion of it.

 

[eli_]

The only time vision-based TACC felt broken and "regressed from radar" to me was when driving on two-lane country roads without a center median. It would just constantly brake for oncoming cars, especially if there was a bend in the road. It was terrible, I had to turn everything off. Otherwise there are many things that can cause slowdown because of some "feature" that Tesla added and is not necessarily a bug or bad prediction. Many depend on accurate map data and are super brittle. There's a ton of stuff that can cause slowdowns (or "phantom braking"), i.e...

1. Car slows down when passing slow traffic in an adjacent lane
2. Car slows down for cars in merging lanes (subject to poor map data), this one bites me a lot and is super annoying. I always get on the throttle in advance to override it. The adjacent car is shaded in a dark color when this happens.
3. Car slows down if it thinks it sees a traffic signal for your lane
4. Car slows down for crowd-sourced speeds for highway on/off-ramps
5. Car slows down for high lane curvature
6. Car slows down when it thinks it sees emergency vehicles

I think NOA can cause more slowdown as well, like for upcoming lane changes and taking forks. And that is subject to poor map data too. There's probably some other "features" that cause slowdown that I don't know about.

 

[Kevy Baby]

The only time vision-based TACC felt broken and "regressed from radar" to me was when driving on two-lane country roads without a center median.

1. Car slows down for high lane curvature

From the TACC section of the Owner's Manual:

Traffic-Aware Cruise Control is primarily intended for driving on dry, straight roads, such as highways.

Warning
Do not use Traffic-Aware Cruise Control on winding roads with sharp curves, on icy or slippery road surfaces, or when weather conditions (such as heavy rain, snow, fog, etc.) make it inappropriate to drive at a consistent speed. Traffic-Aware Cruise Control does not adapt driving speed based on road and driving conditions.

 

[sleepydoc]

From the TACC section of the Owner's Manual:

TACC will gladly slow down on straight roads, too. It also doesn’t require oncoming traffic - it’s perfectly happy to slow down on a dry straight road on a sunny day with no traffic.

 

[johnm]

Regardless, My bar for TACC is that it holds the car at the set speed unless there's a car in the lane in front of it. It's actually not that high of a bar, but Toyota meets it and Tesla doesn't.

So a big part of the problem is that what you want TACC to do and what Tesla wants TACC to do are quite different.
Tesla seems to want TACC to also:
adjust speed for speed limits
adjust speed for curves (and maybe sometimes hills?)
stop for red lights/stop signs
stop for pedestrians
stop for UFOs
slow for construction? (maybe just a side effect of barrels in the lane or no lane lines?)
[Probably many, many more things.]

I think 2019 was probably the peak for [dumb] TACC.