Decreasing rated range.

[qwk]

One thing I noticed is that power is no longer limited at 30+ miles of remaining range. I now see the yellow limit line at approximately 17 miles. I think that with the newer batteries Tesla was getting more than 265 rated range (saw much higher on a loaner). I believe the extra miles may have been pushed to give a buffer once 0 miles range is reached.

This could very well be the explanation.

 

[cinergi]

The power limit also doesn't show at a fixed # of miles left -- it depends on temperature (and possibly other factors), too.

 

[deonb]

Ok, so right after my car was upgraded from Firmware 4.5(.59) to 4.5(.61) the standard 90% rated miles went from 239 to 230. It happened instantly, so that tells us Tesla must be calculating rated range differently.

239 is not a normal / usual rating at 90%. (It was a normal rating for the old "Standard charge", but that was more than 90%.)

 

[brianman]

239 is not a normal / usual rating at 90%. (It was a normal rating for the old "Standard charge", but that was more than 90%.)

93%

 

[qwk]

239 is not a normal / usual rating at 90%. (It was a normal rating for the old "Standard charge", but that was more than 90%.)

It was normal for my car. Every battery is different.

 

[dave]

Here are my numbers:

224 @ 90%
255 @ 100%
8677 Miles
343 Average kWh
P85, 21's, VIN 3236
FW 4.5.61
Daily Charge - 75%

I am disappointed with the range loss, and my relatively high average kWh. Not only does it seem that my range is lower than most people's, I can never seem to get rated range on road trips. Very disappointing, since this is where I thought I'd be in several years, not in the first year of ownership. I already can't make 240 mile round trips to adjacent cities (Indianapolis) that I was counting on being able to make when I decided to go for the 85kw battery.

 

[FredTMC]

Here are my numbers:

224 @ 90%
255 @ 100%
8677 Miles
343 Average kWh
P85, 21's, VIN 3236
FW 4.5.61
Daily Charge - 75%

I am disappointed with the range loss, and my relatively high average kWh. Not only does it seem that my range is lower than most people's, I can never seem to get rated range on road trips. Very disappointing, since this is where I thought I'd be in several years, not in the first year of ownership. I already can't make 240 mile round trips to adjacent cities (Indianapolis) that I was counting on being able to make when I decided to go for the 85kw battery.

My lifetime avg Wh/mi is 342. So, we are nearly identical. I live in SoCal and I'm on the freeway a lot going over 70 mph.
This is the main reason why my Wh/mi is very high. I find that I can absolutely get rated range if I slow down. for example, in rush hour traffic, I can easily get under 300 Wh/mi. Sometimes it's 265 Wh/mi in slow traffic.

 

[dave]

My lifetime avg Wh/mi is 342. So, we are nearly identical. I live in SoCal and I'm on the freeway a lot going over 70 mph.
This is the main reason why my Wh/mi is very high. I find that I can absolutely get rated range if I slow down. for example, in rush hour traffic, I can easily get under 300 Wh/mi. Sometimes it's 265 Wh/mi in slow traffic.

Hey Fred, thanks for the feedback. Yes I can get under 300 Wh/mi as well if I drive slow enough. I can't quite get there going 65 MPH though, which is what I need to do on road trips. This compounds with my decreasing range to leave me slightly irritated... What is your rated range at 90% charge? I know mine is not horrendous or anything, but it's lower than I thought it would be at this point.

 

[FredTMC]

Hey Fred, thanks for the feedback. Yes I can get under 300 Wh/mi as well if I drive slow enough. I can't quite get there going 65 MPH though, which is what I need to do on road trips. This compounds with my decreasing range to leave me slightly irritated... What is your rated range at 90% charge? I know mine is not horrendous or anything, but it's lower than I thought it would be at this point.

I'm only a 60, not an 85. Sorry, nothing comparable. I have ~13k mi on odo and I get ~ 176mi at 90%. I haven't done a 100% "range charge" recently.

 

[dave]

Seems that 60's have lower Wh/mileage in general. Possibly due to lower weight?

 

[islandbayy]

I just hit 11,000 miles at 4 months and 6 days of ownership. I now have CONFIRMED loss of 4 miles on a range charge. 204 miles on Range instead of 209 new. That means I am at 97.6% of original capacity. My Standard charge now ranges from 177 to 183.

My Charge slider now does not show full when range charged. Before, when full, the green battery charge state would be all the way, now, their is a small potion of white space, which may mean that is my lost capacity.
Even with my mileage, I was not expecting such a sudden drop. I was charging to 209 miles up to 9,000 on the odo, the drop came SUDDEN. Saw a 3 mile drop right at a range charge at 10k, and now 4 miles at 11k. I have done balance charges, this has worked in the past, but no effect this time. I would love to get the passcode to get in the service mode on the center console. It has a menu that shows each battery bank in the pack and wat state of charge they are in, but noone will give me the code

 

[yobigd20]

None of you are seeing real range loss. It's simply how the battery packs are balanced (or rather slight imbalance). Once the first cell reaches charge level, all cells within that pack stop charging. This "looks" like range loss but it is in fact NOT. Over time, the MS's sophisticated battery pack management system will "rebalance" these cells. So you'll come out and suddenly see the opposite of what you're calling range loss, aka "range gain" lol. This is easier for the battery management system to do at lower charge rates (implying that the worst thing you could do is supercharge everyday bc it can't balance itself as well). I've heard that some MS's that do nothing but charge at 110v for over 6 months straight have over 300 rated range due to this. I don't know if that statement is true or not (that was from a lead service tech manager...I doubt he's "lie" about that).

 

[bluetinc]

None of you

You don't mean this as everyone posting in this thread, do you?

The service manager might well have been telling the strait truth, speaking in ideal numbers, and considering that someone who charges with nothing but 110V for 6 months likely doesn't have the significant mileage that others of us have.


Peter

 

[ckessel]

At 12k, I'm seeing about 2% loss. I suppose that's within the 20-30% loss expected over 10 years/100k.

 

[Benjamin Brooks]

I'm at 12K too, seeing 231-232 consistently at 90%, haven't done a range charge in a long while... but if I temporarily switch to range mode while charging under 90% it seems to extrapolate the charge remaining time to hitting ~262 @ 100%

 

[cinergi]

None of you are seeing real range loss. It's simply how the battery packs are balanced (or rather slight imbalance). Once the first cell reaches charge level, all cells within that pack stop charging. This "looks" like range loss but it is in fact NOT. Over time, the MS's sophisticated battery pack management system will "rebalance" these cells. So you'll come out and suddenly see the opposite of what you're calling range loss, aka "range gain" lol. This is easier for the battery management system to do at lower charge rates (implying that the worst thing you could do is supercharge everyday bc it can't balance itself as well). I've heard that some MS's that do nothing but charge at 110v for over 6 months straight have over 300 rated range due to this. I don't know if that statement is true or not (that was from a lead service tech manager...I doubt he's "lie" about that).

I wouldn't call 242 -> 219 a slight imbalance ...
(those are my numbers, and yes, adjusted for firmware differences)

 

[telsa_baddz]

Has anyone noticed that while charging on a level2 30A charger, the rated range will say "X", but as soon as you unplug, the rated range drops by 3 miles? So for example if you charge up to 233, but when you unplug, it'll immediately drop to 230 before you even start moving.

 

[mnx]

Has anyone noticed that while charging on a level2 30A charger, the rated range will say "X", but as soon as you unplug, the rated range drops by 3 miles? So for example if you charge up to 233, but when you unplug, it'll immediately drop to 230 before you even start moving.

Yes I've seen that frequently after unplugging my UMC, in my case it's 3km I believe. I've also seen the inverse, after plugging the car in range instantly jumps by a few km.

 

[dave]

None of you are seeing real range loss. It's simply how the battery packs are balanced (or rather slight imbalance).

I don't see how you can possibly know that, or make such a blanket statement. Please qualify what your source of knowledge is. My biggest problem with researching battery care and maintenance is sweeping statements and assumptions posted by people without references. Many times they are just personal opinion or conclusions they have made based on external studies or things they have "heard" from other people.

For what it's worth, I have tried doing a range charge at 110V (starting at about 50%) and it didn't change my numbers one bit.

 

[yobigd20]

I don't see how you can possibly know that, or make such a blanket statement. Please qualify what your source of knowledge is. My biggest problem with researching battery care and maintenance is sweeping statements and assumptions posted by people without references.

a Tesla service manager