Decreasing rated range.

[ACDriveMotor]

I see. As a relative newbie owner I think I kind of missed the "A pack" thing. Scanning TMC, this is the 90KW limit on SC usage? And something about battery life? What is the VIN cut-off for B packs and how can I tell if I have one other than SC?

@brianman - I kind of hear you. When I was researching TM before ordering there was a lot of love and loyalty reflecting back on TM from owners. That was part of what captivated me. Now as a result of a series of events TM seems to have lost some luster. Maybe this is what "reckless expansion" inevitably generates - but it seems potentially self-limiting on growth if you can't keep the early adopters happy. The area under the curve of their voice is huge.

Here is to hoping that we can move beyond this current stage to a better place post the NHTSA investigation.

 

[Gear]

I see. As a relative newbie owner I think I kind of missed the "A pack" thing. Scanning TMC, this is the 90KW limit on SC usage? And something about battery life? What is the VIN cut-off for B packs and how can I tell if I have one other than SC?

@brianman - I kind of hear you. When I was researching TM before ordering there was a lot of love and loyalty reflecting back on TM from owners. That was part of what captivated me. Now as a result of a series of events TM seems to have lost some luster. Maybe this is what "reckless expansion" inevitably generates - but it seems potentially self-limiting on growth if you can't keep the early adopters happy. The area under the curve of their voice is huge.

Here is to hoping that we can move beyond this current stage to a better place post the NHTSA investigation.

There's no real VIN cut-off, which is part of the problem. There's about a 4-5 month period between January and May 2013 where they were shipping both, so it was kind of luck of the draw between those dates. Since you just got yours a couple months ago, you're safe.

 

[napabill]

Indeed. Obviously I'd still buy a Tesla again, but definitely not a Sig and probably not even an early production model. This whole A pack debacle served as a reality check for me.

+1 Amen, brother!

 

[apacheguy]

Do you mean from a "trust in Tesla" perspective, or from a "dealing with beta/early products generally" perspective?

Mostly it boils down to a trust issue. The Sig promise of hardware upgrades and support failed to pull through here. I bought a service plan that includes hardware upgrades just as icing on the cake. I trusted my DS and Elon when they said they were working on better supercharging software for my car. No longer.

I put down 40 K for a reservation on a car that was years away because I believed in showing support for the mission of Tesla. That was my show of trust in the company. The loyalty and trust I got back in return was disappointing.

 

[TylerCA]

Mostly it boils down to a trust issue. The Sig promise of hardware upgrades and support failed to pull through here. I bought a service plan that includes hardware upgrades just as icing on the cake. I trusted my DS and Elon when they said they were working on better supercharging software for my car. No longer.

I put down 40 K for a reservation on a car that was years away because I believed in showing support for the mission of Tesla. That was my show of trust in the company. The loyalty and trust I got back in return was disappointing.

This unfortunately will be increasingly the case as Tesla continues to grow

 

[gg_got_a_tesla]

Quick break from the Sig Angst and the 85 kWh range numbers.

A new 60 kWh owner reported here that Standard gets him 180 miles. I'm at 173 miles after 1 year and 18,000 miles with no special efforts to rebalance.

 

[SFOTurtle]

My numbers have been the same for the last week -- 90% charge yields 169 rated miles (with my last range charge at 193 - done because I needed the extra charge for a lot of driving and not done to rebalance, although I did let the car complete charging). With Islandbayy at nearly twice my mileage and consistently yielding 205+ numbers at 100% SOC, either my battery pack has degraded or it has been severely out of balance forever and no sign of getting back to normal and no way to change that. As with other laments expressed in this thread, I simply wish to have better visibility into what is happening and not be told the mantra "driving conditions vary."

 

[hans]

Quick break from the Sig Angst and the 85 kWh range numbers.

A new 60 kWh owner reported here that Standard gets him 180 miles. I'm at 173 miles after 1 year and 18,000 miles with no special efforts to rebalance.

My year old S60 with 12,000 miles on it gets 191 rated miles@100% SOC and 164 rated miles@90% SOC. I have it in for the annual service and specifically pointed out the degradation and the vampire loss (even with sleep mode on). I will let you know what they say when I get it back.

 

[rjcbox]

My year old S60 with 12,000 miles on it gets 191 rated miles@100% SOC and 164 rated miles@90% SOC. I have it in for the annual service and specifically pointed out the degradation and the vampire loss (even with sleep mode on). I will let you know what they say when I get it back.

An apparent 10% decrease in range on such a new car is concerning, please post a follow up. ?Have you seen this thread: http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/26330-Rated-Range-at-20-500-miles-on-60kW-battery-pack with the complete opposite experience

 

[Zextraterrestrial]

here is my 100% charge
If I remember right, the rated miles at 99% was 240 and that last 1% and more than 1 hour gained 2 miles
turned on heater @ 10:00 and ~ 11:00 and when done.
dark blue is mi/hr charge, lt blue is Amps -charging @ ~240V

I would think an hour at > 15mi/hr would add more than 2 mi

 

[islandbayy]

My numbers have been the same for the last week -- 90% charge yields 169 rated miles (with my last range charge at 193 - done because I needed the extra charge for a lot of driving and not done to rebalance, although I did let the car complete charging). With Islandbayy at nearly twice my mileage and consistently yielding 205+ numbers at 100% SOC, either my battery pack has degraded or it has been severely out of balance forever and no sign of getting back to normal and no way to change that. As with other laments expressed in this thread, I simply wish to have better visibility into what is happening and not be told the mantra "driving conditions vary."

Since I've posted my range numbers at (now 21,000 miles), I've been getting hammered with messages how I keep my pack in such good shape despite my, we'll, not really abuse of my pack, but excessive use of my pack. because of this, I will be making one of my famous videos talking about charging habits, battery balancing, effects of a unbalanced pack, effects of range/100% charges etc... I do have extensive experience with lithium packs and even more so with lead battery packs in electric vehicles, and despite many differences I was able to carry the experiences with lead over to lithium with a few modifications

I will post the video in the video section for everyone and then post here. I hope that helps you all. I will almost guarantee that your lowered rand is not degradation. I almost guarantee that the range losses are from a few things, Temperature,
and Out if balance. Being out of balance can actually damage battery packs on the long run. I personally believe the battery management system in the MS will not let it get to that point, but I will talk about tips to help speed up the process and why a out of balance pack can be damaged. also, those of you experiencing a perceived sluggish acceleration, out if balance pack can cause that degradation in the acceleration crispness, and make it feel more spongy.

Video will ill be ready tomorrow.

 

[lloyds]

Since I've posted my range numbers at (now 21,000 miles), I've been getting hammered with messages how I keep my pack in such good shape despite my, we'll, not really abuse of my pack, but excessive use of my pack. because of this, I will be making one of my famous videos talking about charging habits, battery balancing, effects of a unbalanced pack, effects of range/100% charges etc... I do have extensive experience with lithium packs and even more so with lead battery packs in electric vehicles, and despite many differences I was able to carry the experiences with lead over to lithium with a few modifications

I will post the video in the video section for everyone and then post here. I hope that helps you all. I will almost guarantee that your lowered rand is not degradation. I almost guarantee that the range losses are from a few things, Temperature,
and Out if balance. Being out of balance can actually damage battery packs on the long run. I personally believe the battery management system in the MS will not let it get to that point, but I will talk about tips to help speed up the process and why a out of balance pack can be damaged. also, those of you experiencing a perceived sluggish acceleration, out if balance pack can cause that degradation in the acceleration crispness, and make it feel more spongy.

Video will ill be ready tomorrow.

Thank you for your contribution to this forum!

 

[Iz]

A new 60 kWh owner reported here that Standard gets him 180 miles. I'm at 173 miles after 1 year and 18,000 miles with no special efforts to rebalance.

Same here. After 11 months and 8100 miles the standard is also 173. Range charge is ~ 193. Will have to balance the pack before summer. Last year I "squeezed" 221 miles out of it with 7 remaining. Still having vampire drain issues with 5.8.

 

[AndreyATC]

85kw
230 standard / 262 range
6K miles on ODO

 

[SFOTurtle]

My year old S60 with 12,000 miles on it gets 191 rated miles@100% SOC and 164 rated miles@90% SOC. I have it in for the annual service and specifically pointed out the degradation and the vampire loss (even with sleep mode on). I will let you know what they say when I get it back.

Yes, I am very interested to hear what they say.

 

[markb]

So any suggestions for a 40 owner (limited to 72% charge on a 60kwh battery) who has seen >15% range loss after 9000 miles?

 

[tdiggity]

So any suggestions for a 40 owner (limited to 72% charge on a 60kwh battery) who has seen >15% range loss after 9000 miles?

You should call the nearest service center. From the info gathered on the forums, you need to hit 100% to start the balancing function. Those of us who also limit charge are not seeing balanced battery packs.

 

[islandbayy]

So any suggestions for a 40 owner (limited to 72% charge on a 60kwh battery) who has seen >15% range loss after 9000 miles?

That is a conundrum... Do you get to select your charge %?,

 

[Zextraterrestrial]

That is a conundrum... Do you get to select your charge %?,

66%.... max 0f a 60kW battery for only the 40kW, right?

oh he said 72%. my math is bad:smile:
I thought it was 2/3 maybe

 

[islandbayy]

66%.... max 0f a 60kW battery for only the 40kW, right?

oh he said 72%. my math is bad:smile:
I thought it was 2/3 maybe

Yah, not sure what to say on this one. Drain it down to 0-5 miles, then do a slow charge back up to max, let it sit at your maximum for a day to let voltages equalize. Thats about all I can think of I will ponder this one more.