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Did I Make a Mistake?
- Thread starter DSMLVNV
- Start date
I'm quite familiar with Vegas and am certainly not advocating driving on Las Vegas Blvd, it sucks. That said, the following casinos/hotels on the strip have destination chargers:
Four Seasons
Mandalay Bay
MGM Grand
The Mansion at MGM
Waldorf Astoria (formerly the Mandarin Oriental)
Elara
The Cosmopolitan
Bellagio
Mirage
Venetian
Palazzo
I'm quite familiar with Vegas and am certainly not advocating driving on Las Vegas Blvd, it sucks. That said, the following casinos/hotels on the strip have destination chargers:
Four Seasons
Mandalay Bay
MGM Grand
The Mansion at MGM
Waldorf Astoria (formerly the Mandarin Oriental)
Elara
The Cosmopolitan
Bellagio
Mirage
Venetian
Palazzo
They all charge for parking now. Not to mention, these wouldn't be fast chargers, right?
Four Seasons
Mandalay Bay
MGM Grand
The Mansion at MGM
Waldorf Astoria (formerly the Mandarin Oriental)
Elara
The Cosmopolitan
Bellagio
Mirage
Venetian
Palazzo
They all charge for parking now. Not to mention, these wouldn't be fast chargers, right?
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
To be clear:
Since you have the Performance M3 with sticky PS4S tires, your range is limited to about 250-260 miles already (100% to 0%) in a best case scenario. And perhaps you'll see that drop a few % over the first year of ownership or so, due to battery aging (data is limited on this at the moment). But it doesn't matter too much on these specific runs since you have access to several Superchargers.
For your general question, at least you only drive 6000 miles per year; it's probably workable to do a mix of destination & Supercharging. Use Plugshare, and you'll just have to find opportunities to use these charging locations (look for J1772 chargers on Plugshare - they're less reliable and of course much slower than Superchargers in my experience, though). Ideally you find places you can plug in while you're doing something else that way there is minimal overhead and there are no special trips. There may not be that many options right now, but on the upside, there will be more and more options (and they probably will become more reliable) over the next couple years. You'll be paying more than what you would be charging at home, but as long as you don't mind that, it should be fine
Those are all destination chargers, so not superchargers, but still quite fast (eg. the one at MGM Grand is 16KW).
MGM offers the first hour of parking free, so there is that. If you have the Mlife Credit card (with no annual fee) you get Pearl status in Mlife and get free parking. There are similar setups with the other casinos as well.
Edit: While I frequent Vegas, my Model S is safely parked about 2,000 miles away when I'm there, so I have not used any of these destination chargers.
Depends on the setup. When using AC current, the most you get will be about 44 miles per hour on a model 3.
Tesla Wall Charger Information Page said:
Half the charge rate? No, that’s quite an exaggeration. A small number of 90 kWh S and X cars had their PEAK charge rate reduced slightly after hundreds of DC charging sessions to protect the battery. On a typical 40 minute charging session I think the calculation was it added 8 minutes. If someone arrived at the supercharger with enough SOC that they didn’t start at the full rate anyway, it wouldn’t add anything at all. It’s just not a concern for most people.
Well we are both correct. It gets capped at 90kw instead of 120kw. I would not call that exactly slight. But on average you are correct it's not that big of a deal. Sorry, I mis-recalled how the limit was applied. But it is something that someone planning 100% super charging should be aware of. It could affect resale value as well if it's permanently capped.
Tesla explains why it limits Supercharging speed after high numbers of DC charges
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Electricfan
Active Member
Oh, what MSWLOGO said - I meant to say that... If you're stuck with only supercharging, then charge to max of 80%, don't let it drop below 20% (the higher you can limit this the better). 70 - 30 even better. Protect your battery while you can only supercharge. One day you'll be able to plug in where you live and you'll be much better off at that point.
Why should he give up ~60 miles of range? I don't see any benefit to only charging to 80% because it's supercharging (vs. home charging). I guess it's some magic whereby the upper end of the battery is affected with SC? It doesn't make any sense. Supercharging is just distributing more current over the battery cells at the same time. There is current going into each cell. The higher the current the more heat will be generated (current*resistance). As the heat goes up the battery management system will either throttle the current or engage the battery cooling mechanism. Either way it will be within the safety margins.
What difference is the top 20% of the battery versus below 80%?
By the time you get over 80% the taper doesn't have many kW going into the battery. If supercharging is a concern, and I think it's overblown anyway given Tesla's battery management system, it would be at the lower states of charge when you're drawing close to 120 kW not at the end of the taper. No reason not to charge to 90% routinely at a supercharger just as you would do at home (or maybe you wouldn't, but I would and have done so for almost six years over two Teslas).
lencap
Member
DSMLVNV -
As you can see from the forum posts there is a lot of confusion about the long term effect of SuperCharging. Part of the confusion is likely due to a lack of a precise guideline from Tesla itself. There are lots of comments about Elon's tweets suggesting 30-80% charging range as ideal, and various anecdotal commentary about SuperCharging, both pro and con.
It's been hard to find anything definitive, but I'd not worry about it very much. The M3 cars have a different battery design from the original Model S and Model X and those older cars have many owners with over 100,000 miles on their cars and very minimal battery degradation, even with lots of SuperCharing time - which was and is free for the life of the car. The newer Model 3 battery packs improve upon that with a more efficient design. Also consider that the Model 3 Long Range charges faster than almost any Model S or Model X - that efficiency suggests that Tesla considered longevity in its basic design plan, and charging will be faster with less time needed. Charge as suggested - when you get to 30% top off to 80% and keep repeating that schedule. You have a manufacturers warranty on your brand new car. There are no warnings anywhere in the Owners Manual that charging exclusively on the SuperCharger is forbidden, or will invalidate your warranty. If Tesla didn't prohibit it, why be concerned? Anything else is speculation, often based on incomplete information.
In terms of J1722 chargers (standard used by most third party charging networks), with a 40AMP 240v connection you should get 30 miles of range per hour. If you can park 10-15 minutes from your office and plug into one of these chargers you'll be full by the time your work day is over. Even if that's not available today, it likely will be soon as EV growth is very strong.
For what it's worth I've owned a Nissan Leaf and two BMW i3s before buying the Model 3. The Nissan charger was terrible - the original ones were 3.3KW capacity. It took longer to charge their 80 mile range battery than it takes me to charge my 310 mile range M3. The i3 was better, but not as fast as the Tesla. It took 3.5 to 4 hours to charge 80 miles on that car. My M3 at home on a 40 AMP circuit gets 30 miles an hour easily.
Relax; Drive and Enjoy; Repeat! Not much different from shampoo instructions.
As you can see from the forum posts there is a lot of confusion about the long term effect of SuperCharging. Part of the confusion is likely due to a lack of a precise guideline from Tesla itself. There are lots of comments about Elon's tweets suggesting 30-80% charging range as ideal, and various anecdotal commentary about SuperCharging, both pro and con.
It's been hard to find anything definitive, but I'd not worry about it very much. The M3 cars have a different battery design from the original Model S and Model X and those older cars have many owners with over 100,000 miles on their cars and very minimal battery degradation, even with lots of SuperCharing time - which was and is free for the life of the car. The newer Model 3 battery packs improve upon that with a more efficient design. Also consider that the Model 3 Long Range charges faster than almost any Model S or Model X - that efficiency suggests that Tesla considered longevity in its basic design plan, and charging will be faster with less time needed. Charge as suggested - when you get to 30% top off to 80% and keep repeating that schedule. You have a manufacturers warranty on your brand new car. There are no warnings anywhere in the Owners Manual that charging exclusively on the SuperCharger is forbidden, or will invalidate your warranty. If Tesla didn't prohibit it, why be concerned? Anything else is speculation, often based on incomplete information.
In terms of J1722 chargers (standard used by most third party charging networks), with a 40AMP 240v connection you should get 30 miles of range per hour. If you can park 10-15 minutes from your office and plug into one of these chargers you'll be full by the time your work day is over. Even if that's not available today, it likely will be soon as EV growth is very strong.
For what it's worth I've owned a Nissan Leaf and two BMW i3s before buying the Model 3. The Nissan charger was terrible - the original ones were 3.3KW capacity. It took longer to charge their 80 mile range battery than it takes me to charge my 310 mile range M3. The i3 was better, but not as fast as the Tesla. It took 3.5 to 4 hours to charge 80 miles on that car. My M3 at home on a 40 AMP circuit gets 30 miles an hour easily.
Relax; Drive and Enjoy; Repeat! Not much different from shampoo instructions.
Electricfan
Active Member
I think its fair to ask the question, and not wise at all to assume just because Tesla doesn't advise against it doesn't necessarily mean its ok. They do state clearly that supercharging is intended for long distance trips. That could be all they think they need to say on the subject.
I have got to believe there is a solution if presented in a certain way. Do they pay for your electricity? If so, arm yourself with knowledge and present how little it costs in electricity to charge and offer to pay a fair share. Or were they concerned about a charge cord being a trip hazard? There are remedies for that too! Try to give us exact reasons why they denied you. Tesla would provide them with wall charger(s) at the complex probably for free! ChargePoint is another company that works with apartments to provide charging. Contact them and let them "sell" your Building Management. If you don't know exactly why they denied you, find out so you can work at complying or proving to them why they should let you. Also you may have a legal leg to stand on to get them to let you charge. The old saying "When there is a will there's a way." Rather than feeling defeated, empower yourself with knowledge and go after what you want. In this case it is charging where you reside. Don't automatically resign yourself to take "no" as the "end all". Fight for what you need!
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eprosenx
Active Member
So apartments are hard since they don't want you mucking with their buildings and most folks don't stay that long so working with a tenant on a solution is not high on their list.
With that being said, as others have mentioned, this is the future so they will have to come up with something eventually. This will become a selling point for the smart apartment owners here soon. Some states now have laws requiring them to not block you from putting in charging at least in condo's and such.
I should call out that with your limited milage needs you might be completely fine on a 120v even only 15a circuit (though 20a is better). Even if once in a blue moon you had to supercharge that is better than having to do it all the time.
I take it where you park your car has some kind of limited power, but it is off a common meter rather than your own dedicated meter? Other than the obvious issue of who pays, there is also the issue of overloading the circuit which is probably only intended for lighting and garage door openers.
From the cost standpoint, one "outside the box" thing could be to offer to pay for the entire meter that feeds the garage - there is a good chance it is a very small amount of power normally if it is only for openers. You can't pull much power off a 120v outlet. ;-) Or it would be easy for the apartment to figure out what they have paid on that meter for years and then have you pay everything above and beyond some base rate that they know is their responsibility?
I agree with others that in the short term, supercharging once a week is probably fine. I would just be working toward a home charging solution in the future. No way you could switch apartment complexes to someone more accommodating? Others will be asking these questions soon if not already.
A question to the owner or management should also be: "How do you plan to offer EV charging to remain competitive in the future?" This is happening now over much of the country in multi-dwelling living situations. Also point out that Nevada is home to a multi-billion dollar Tesla factory. 14-50 outlets are the cheapest solutions for home charging and are generic so all EVs can use them.
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