Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Disappointed with the D unveiling

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
People will get upset no matter how/when the updates are announced. It's in Tesla's best interest not to give an exact date, because people will hold off on ordering/taking delivery. As an investor, I agree with how they handled the situation.

Do you agree or disagree with Tesla making Dual Motor available to order immediately AFTER the Oct. 9th reveal of the P85D?

Do you think this discouraged people from ordering PRIOR to Oct. 9? Do you think people refused delivery after the reveal?
 
You have an agenda, I do not. If you ordered at the same time as others and they received sensors and you did not, that's a problem and Tesla should fix that. But if you took delivery of your car before the announcement, too bad. You got what you got. New things happen. Get over it. Sorry, but that's life. If you are advocating for those who were in the queue and didn't get the sensors, fine.

I have an agenda? That's news to me. :)

My Tesla order is still in the future. I knew AWD was coming and am waiting for that. If you are talking about my P85 then, sure, it doesn't have the sensors but its spec isn't quite what I would have ordered anyway - because I didn't order it, but bought it from a dealership. It was new, but dealer-specced. It's my stop-gap until I get the Model X. It is actually a very nice car, a very refreshing spec from what I usually do too and I had fun doing this side-step in car purchasing (compared to factory orders I always do), but my situation has nothing to do with people like breser who feel slighted for completely different reasons and an order of magnitude more compelling ones.

Trust me, I have absolutely no vested interest in this debate, because I expect everything and more to be available to me with the Model X Signature I have on reserve - all the better that I have new things to look forward to. And if Model X somehow misses this stuff, I always have the option to cancel that and order the P85D Model S of my dreams, this time with whatever exact specs I want. I'm in no rush, though, as that P85 is keeping me busy and Model X has got me hooked. If I eventually take a depreciation hit on the current Model S due to AutoPilot or whatnot, fine, but in reality I was going to take a depreciation hit anyway, planning to exchange vehicles so soon (well, who knows how long the X takes exactly). All this noise is insignificant for my personal purchase process, but I do find it significant as a community member. I think the response to some people's concerns has been appalling at times. I think support for these people and especially their point of view has been warranted and have offered it.

Look. People get disappointed. They can feel slighted and, yes, they do complain. Sometimes the complaints are even warranted. At other times they are worthy of listening to in any case. All that, too, is life.

I look beyond my own interest (because in this case I have hardly any) and beyond my own bias (really liking Tesla) - and seeing room for improvement in the customer experience. If I have an agenda, that's it.

But if you are advocating for folks who happened to take delivery before all of this happened, then you are totally off base.

I'm advocating, first and foremost, an understanding atmosphere of discussion for those who felt slighted by these events. I think that's the biggest thing we can affect here. I've felt people getting attacked quite harshly for outing their feelings on their new purchase and I think that kind of sucks. A supportive atmosphere is one where feedback and solutions could be hashed out, but also people could feel they can share their frustrations. Second, I'm advocating improvements - or at least solid discussion of improvements - to Tesla's process so that these changes could be handled with a little less disruption. Could there be, for example, some communications and sales policies in place to make these transitions more smooth for the customers. Say, offering info, discounts, perhaps delivery refusals or delayings in some cases to shield from disappointment where possible. This won't solve all cases, of course, but there is a real chance in my opinion of lessening dissatisfaction amongst customers. Finally, there have been a few cases where I think Tesla may have made mistakes in the sales process to a particular customer and have been advocating getting them fixed. It would be good PR.

One thing is for sure, I don't think pushing the complaints under the carpet would do good to anyone. Better to talk them through.

- - - Updated - - -

mhan00 said:
They clearly underestimated how selfish humans are and how people perceive other people's good fortune somehow as their own bad fortune.

That's the real world. People are the way that they are, not how we'd like them to be.

We are all subjective creatures. A lot of people have trouble being sympathetic towards those who felt their purchase experience soured by this. That, too, is a form of selfish - not understanding or probably even trying to understand where these people are coming from. Hopefully discussion has opened some avenues of understanding in all directions.

In other cases it is fighting windmills, so I think that's all I have to say about that. :)
 
Do you agree or disagree with Tesla making Dual Motor available to order immediately AFTER the Oct. 9th reveal of the P85D?

Do you think this discouraged people from ordering PRIOR to Oct. 9?

Do you think people refused delivery after the reveal?

1) I agree. They can do whatever they want as long as they stand by the contract they made with individual purchasers/owners. That is all the matters. The rest is speculation and whining about not having a new feature that wasn't part of a contract.

2) Yes, I think some people held off on ordering/confirming until after they heard the announcement.

3) I'm sure people (at least a couple) refused delivery after the reveal because they got upset and wanted the newest version. Several cancelled orders, took the $2,500 loss and re-ordered. Others changed their order (including price) and delivery date. That's their choice. Tesla has no legal obligation to them to do otherwise.
 
1) I agree. They can do whatever they want as long as they stand by the contract they made with individual purchasers/owners. That is all the matters. The rest is speculation and whining about not having a new feature that wasn't part of a contract.

2) Yes, I think some people held off on ordering/confirming until after they heard the announcement.

3) I'm sure people (at least a couple) refused delivery after the reveal because they got upset and wanted the newest version. Several cancelled orders, took the $2,500 loss and re-ordered. Others changed their order (including price) and delivery date. That's their choice. Tesla has no legal obligation to them to do otherwise.

The net result from 2) and 3) is people ultimately getting the car they want, with the latest tech. Having the choice to take the hit and reorder is less of a pain than having the car delivered and then realizing there's no way to upgrade short of another purchase (and associated trade-in costs).

Satisfied customers are better than upset customers for long-term company image.

Letting people have the chance to modify their order for Dual Motor also increases Tesla's profits.

The way Dual Motor was handled is win-win. The sensor suite feature could have been handled similarly.
 
Both Tesla people and Tesla buyers can be (and are) deserving at the same time. It is not an either/or kind of situation.

Exactly, and so my empathy goes to Elon Musk and his crew at Tesla. There's nothing quite like a rock and a hard place, especially after you've done something extraordinarily difficult and phenomenal for all.

Note: No Model S's were harmed in the making of D or something else. And interestingly enough, neither were any mammals.
 
The net result from 2) and 3) is people ultimately getting the car they want, with the latest tech. Having the choice to take the hit and reorder is less of a pain than having the car delivered and then realizing there's no way to upgrade short of another purchase (and associated trade-in costs).

Satisfied customers are better than upset customers for long-term company image.

Letting people have the chance to modify their order for Dual Motor also increases Tesla's profits.

The way Dual Motor was handled is win-win. The sensor suite feature could have been handled similarly.

Valid points all around.

To throw another issue into this discussion: the sensors don't actually increase the costs like the D, at least if you ordered tech package and other options. In fact, my car (confirmed end of May, delivery in early Nov) configured now is $1,000+ less expensive. I ordered when parcel shelf, parking sensors, and fog lights were separate.

Should I get the new hardware automatically? Contractually, no. Would I like it? Of course. Should Tesla add it AND change my price? Contractually, no. Would I like them to? Of course - That's new stuff AND a cheaper price!

It's a messy situation, which is why I'm focusing on the legal perspective. Is it (in some people's opinion) *morally* unfair? Perhaps. Does it suck for those that took delivery at the end of September rather than waiting? Sure, in some circumstances. Tesla may want to consider that and offer something to those owners, in consideration of long-term happiness of owners. But should they get refund/retrofit/buy-back? No.
 
I have an agenda? That's news to me. :)

My Tesla order is still in the future. I knew AWD was coming and am waiting for that. If you are talking about my P85 then, sure, it doesn't have the sensors but its spec isn't quite what I would have ordered anyway - because I didn't order it, but bought it from a dealership. It was new, but dealer-specced. It's my stop-gap until I get the Model X. It is actually a very nice car, a very refreshing spec from what I usually do too and I had fun doing this side-step in car purchasing (compared to factory orders I always do), but my situation has nothing to do with people like breser who feel slighted for completely different reasons and an order of magnitude more compelling ones.

Trust me, I have absolutely no vested interest in this debate, because I expect everything and more to be available to me with the Model X Signature I have on reserve - all the better that I have new things to look forward to. And if Model X somehow misses this stuff, I always have the option to cancel that and order the P85D Model S of my dreams, this time with whatever exact specs I want. I'm in no rush, though, as that P85 is keeping me busy and Model X has got me hooked. If I eventually take a depreciation hit on the current Model S due to AutoPilot or whatnot, fine, but in reality I was going to take a depreciation hit anyway, planning to exchange vehicles so soon (well, who knows how long the X takes exactly). All this noise is insignificant for my personal purchase process, but I do find it significant as a community member. I think the response to some people's concerns has been appalling at times. I think support for these people and especially their point of view has been warranted and have offered it.

Look. People get disappointed. They can feel slighted and, yes, they do complain. Sometimes the complaints are even warranted. At other times they are worthy of listening to in any case. All that, too, is life.

I look beyond my own interest (because in this case I have hardly any) and beyond my own bias (really liking Tesla) - and seeing room for improvement in the customer experience. If I have an agenda, that's it.



I'm advocating, first and foremost, an understanding atmosphere of discussion for those who felt slighted by these events. I think that's the biggest thing we can affect here. I've felt people getting attacked quite harshly for outing their feelings on their new purchase and I think that kind of sucks. A supportive atmosphere is one where feedback and solutions could be hashed out, but also people could feel they can share their frustrations. Second, I'm advocating improvements - or at least solid discussion of improvements - to Tesla's process so that these changes could be handled with a little less disruption. Could there be, for example, some communications and sales policies in place to make these transitions more smooth for the customers. Say, offering info, discounts, perhaps delivery refusals or delayings in some cases to shield from disappointment where possible. This won't solve all cases, of course, but there is a real chance in my opinion of lessening dissatisfaction amongst customers. Finally, there have been a few cases where I think Tesla may have made mistakes in the sales process to a particular customer and have been advocating getting them fixed. It would be good PR.

One thing is for sure, I don't think pushing the complaints under the carpet would do good to anyone. Better to talk them through.

- - - Updated - - -



We are all subjective creatures. A lot of people have trouble being sympathetic towards those who felt their purchase experience soured by this. That, too, is a form of selfish - not understanding or probably even trying to understand where these people are coming from. Hopefully discussion has opened some avenues of understanding in all directions.

In other cases it is fighting windmills, so I think that's all I have to say about that. :)

I understand feeling a little upset missing out on some new features. What I don't get is getting angry at Tesla and thinking you were tricked somehow. And I definitely don't get demanding Tesla somehow retrofit new, fairly complicated features into your car or demanding they buy back your car for what you paid for it, or for only a tiny loss, especially since a big chunk of depreciation occurs when you "drive it off the lot" so to speak.
 
1. Anyone who really wanted Model S with AWD would surely have done some basic research and would have known that it was coming. That was zero surprise for most of us.

2. I'm pretty sure nobody was actually tricked or deceived into buying a car.

3. I've been driving a Roadster for >3.5 years and my wife has been driving Model S VIN 00282 for >2 years now. We both agree that the autopilot functions are cool but we would really not use them because a) driving a Tesla is too much fun and b) we don't trust other crazy people on the road.

Publicly scheduling hardware changes is difficult and expensive at best so here's a free marketing suggestion to Tesla:

Keep doing what you're doing, but next time there's a new hardware feature just announce it and say that "...a number of random cars were already selected to get it for free...". The ones who get it will feel like they won the lottery while those who didn't get it may feel disappointed but they (hopefully) won't feel the need to start complaining.
 
I'm tired of these posts and the petition full of legal non-sense. You signed a legal contract with very precise wording. There is no breach of contract, and I can pretty much guarantee (without really knowing) that no one had all these 'promises' they claim in writing from any sales staff/executive.

Everyone on this thread agrees that Tesla legally did nothing wrong. Haven't heard of any petition. No idea what promises you're talking about (I guess the inventory car thread). But there's a world of difference between inciting buyer's remorse in your customers and breaking a contract. I've also been pretty clear that I don't expect Tesla to do anything for me. I would like them to acknowledge that they delivered a car with less value than the one they would have delivered to me with the originally agreed timeframe (actually November, that got pushed up to Late October). It would have been nice if they'd done so proactively by offering me a small discount. I would have really liked it if when they moved my order up they'd told me the consequences, so I had a choice. I hope they'll do better in the future, which is why I've talked about the situation here and why I've told Tesla how I feel about the situation.

What I'm tired of is people showing up all judgmental about people feeling bad about their purchase. Especially when they clearly haven't read the thread fully (I get it, it's long). I'm also really tired of people just presuming that Tesla can do no better. There's always room for improvement. If you don't want to talk about how Tesla can improve that's fine. Just ignore threads like this then.
 
Everyone on this thread agrees that Tesla legally did nothing wrong. Haven't heard of any petition. No idea what promises you're talking about (I guess the inventory car thread). But there's a world of difference between inciting buyer's remorse in your customers and breaking a contract. I've also been pretty clear that I don't expect Tesla to do anything for me. I would like them to acknowledge that they delivered a car with less value than the one they would have delivered to me with the originally agreed timeframe (actually November, that got pushed up to Late October). It would have been nice if they'd done so proactively by offering me a small discount. I would have really liked it if when they moved my order up they'd told me the consequences, so I had a choice. I hope they'll do better in the future, which is why I've talked about the situation here and why I've told Tesla how I feel about the situation.

What I'm tired of is people showing up all judgmental about people feeling bad about their purchase. Especially when they clearly haven't read the thread fully (I get it, it's long). I'm also really tired of people just presuming that Tesla can do no better. There's always room for improvement. If you don't want to talk about how Tesla can improve that's fine. Just ignore threads like this then.

I appreciate the response, and I do understand I am being a little judgmental at times about it. My apologies for that tone. I'm also referencing issues that have come up in the other 2+ threads about this (some say promises that retrofit would be given, other said sales people lied to them, etc, etc). There is a petition link somewhere around here, as well as one on Reddit.

Read my earlier response that in certain circumstances "Tesla may want to consider that and offer something to those owners, in consideration of long-term happiness." I just don't agree with the demands for forced retrofit, buyback, etc.

They can certainly do better with communication and keeping customers happy. As you said, always room for improvement.

Cheers
 
I appreciate the response, and I do understand I am being a little judgmental at times about it. My apologies for that tone. I'm also referencing issues that have come up in the other 2+ threads about this (some say promises that retrofit would be given, other said sales people lied to them, etc, etc). There is a petition link somewhere around here, as well as one on Reddit.

Yeah just got caught up on the other thread now. Was out showing the car to college students with another forum member.

Read my earlier response that in certain circumstances "Tesla may want to consider that and offer something to those owners, in consideration of long-term happiness." I just don't agree with the demands for forced retrofit, buyback, etc.

For what it's worth I'm sure some people will make a big public fuss, get media attention and probably get exactly what they want or darn close to it. Even though I'm not completely happy with how my situation went down, I don't feel that's fair to Tesla either. I've talked about my frustration and experiences and how I wished it would go down, but it's still a private matter between me and Tesla. Some people are just running straight to the immediate solution that forces a reaction on the part of Tesla for PR. That's too bad.
 
I have no issue with the D announcement and rollout.

The sensor issue could have been handled better. Tesla knew this all was coming and when, and was shutting down the factory to prepare for D, Model X, etc. Perhaps they could have announced the features were coming, and within the narrow window between that announcement and cars being delivered with the new features offered people a small discount to order and take delivery of non-updated cars vs. allowing delays of the orders for those who wanted them? Not the best thing for bottom line, but very nice in terms of customer satisfaction.

I think the magnitude of the update to the safety/convenience features of the car is huge, and retrofits were excluded. So, I think there was a little more responsibility on Tesla's part to not charge Customer A $100k for a car without this stuff and Customer B 100k for a car with the new stuff and deliver them side-by-side at the same time without any acknowledgement of the changes. Some have said customer A is getting "exactly what they paid for", which I understand, but I don't think is fully true. Customer B is getting the "new normal", or what 100k of Tesla is now worth. Customer A got a product that cost the same as Customer B's product but is instantly worth less even though it was proffered as being identical to both customers. The secrecy and such of all this was silly and didn't need to happen.

Do remember though that anyone who found out about this and was waiting on a car could have canceled their order right up until the point where they were staring their new car in the face at the Delivery Center and reordered an new one with what is now called Autopilot (and now +/- AWD) for a maximum cost of $2500 (forfeiture of deposit). Perhaps you would have even gotten lucky as some have mentioned and not lost your deposit when reordering. Doesn't fix it for those who took delivery just before the first leaks of the new features here and on TM forums, but there is a line somewhere.
 
I'm tired of these posts and the petition full of legal non-sense. You signed a legal contract with very precise wording. There is no breach of contract, and I can pretty much guarantee (without really knowing) that no one had all these 'promises' they claim in writing from any sales staff/executive.

I am tired of these pointless legal arguments. Sure, there is no breach of contract and I got exactly what I ordered and paid for. Guess what !? I have no intention of suing anyone either. But show me where is the law that prevents me from feeling disappointed when I see that some people who ordered the car later than me but got to pick it up earlier have the new autopilot features but I do not. I have seen posts with pictures of the camera/radar sensors on this very forum before I got my car delivered and the person has placed the order later than me according to the post.

Do I have the same great car I have ordered ? Yes, I do.
Do I feel just as happy about it as I felt before the 9th of October ? No I do not.
Now, go right ahead and prove that I have no right to feel disappointed. But guess what, it is not going to make me feel any better...

Sure, if its that important to me, I could order a new car and sell mine when the new one is delivered in about 3 months from now.
That switch would cost me about $10K-$15K, so I am probably not going to do it, so I just continue to feel like I had bad luck losing out on the feature by a few days totally out of my control.
 
I am tired of these pointless legal arguments. Sure, there is no breach of contract and I got exactly what I ordered and paid for. Guess what !? I have no intention of suing anyone either. But show me where is the law that prevents me from feeling disappointed when I see that some people who ordered the car later than me but got to pick it up earlier have the new autopilot features but I do not. I have seen posts with pictures of the camera/radar sensors on this very forum before I got my car delivered and the person has placed the order later than me according to the post.

Do I have the same great car I have ordered ? Yes, I do.
Do I feel just as happy about it as I felt before the 9th of October ? No I do not.
Now, go right ahead and prove that I have no right to feel disappointed. But guess what, it is not going to make me feel any better...

Sure, if its that important to me, I could order a new car and sell mine when the new one is delivered in about 3 months from now.
That switch would cost me about $10K-$15K, so I am probably not going to do it, so I just continue to feel like I had bad luck losing out on the feature by a few days totally out of my control.
I agree with every part of this post. You have the right to feel disappointed and I believe that the vast majority of people, me included, would feel the same way. I also think you're handling it in a mature, adult way. Folks impacted by this are still processing the emotions of the situation, folks not impacted are going into solution/logic mode (myself included). I think that's where a fair amount of the conflict is. There are exceptions on both sides of this divide where people are being unreasonable.

All I can say is that having an attitude like yours will go along way to simply enjoying the car. I went through a similar experience when I found out that I was ended up with an 'A' pack when folks who had deliveries before me got 'B' packs. It's a great car and a fantastic driving experience that will put these troubles in the rear view mirror pretty quickly.
 
I am tired of these pointless legal arguments. Sure, there is no breach of contract and I got exactly what I ordered and paid for. Guess what !? I have no intention of suing anyone either. But show me where is the law that prevents me from feeling disappointed when I see that some people who ordered the car later than me but got to pick it up earlier have the new autopilot features but I do not. I have seen posts with pictures of the camera/radar sensors on this very forum before I got my car delivered and the person has placed the order later than me according to the post.

Do I have the same great car I have ordered ? Yes, I do.
Do I feel just as happy about it as I felt before the 9th of October ? No I do not.
Now, go right ahead and prove that I have no right to feel disappointed. But guess what, it is not going to make me feel any better...

Sure, if its that important to me, I could order a new car and sell mine when the new one is delivered in about 3 months from now.
That switch would cost me about $10K-$15K, so I am probably not going to do it, so I just continue to feel like I had bad luck losing out on the feature by a few days totally out of my control.
I agree with you. I'm not sure why some here are angry, and for some reason got offended just because some others expressed their disappointment.

Let's agree to disagree. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. People tend to have different opinions and that's normal. If you don't like this topic, move on to the next one.
 
Just curious, I am new to Tesla, but have been watching the Model S for 2 years. Didn't everyone involved know that the AWD version was coming? Musk said as much back in February. I waited for it, as I live in Chicago and would not have bought a rear wheel drive version. I understand the people who are upset because they ordered earlier by a few days and someone else ordered a couple of days later and got new features. I probably would have refused delivery and eaten the $2500 if it were important to have those features. And I agree, it could have been handled better at least with the people who were in process, like giving them the option to change their order. But, I waited until the announcement thing was done, and then waited for the website to come back up early Friday am and ordered my new P85D at 3 am Chicago time. I just think that while the Autopilot is a surprise ( and not really since Mercedes S class and others have had something similar) but AWD was a no brainer. Tesla had to do it. Otherwise, the car is not that competitive in colder climates, no matter what Bjorn Nyland says. Everyone, especially the knowledgeable people on these boards knew it was a matter of time.
 
... but it's still a private matter between me and Tesla. Some people are just running straight to the immediate solution that forces a reaction on the part of Tesla for PR. That's too bad.

It ceased to be private between you and Tesla the moment you brought it to the Internet. You are as much a catalyst for forcing a reaction on the part of Tesla for PR than the person who started the petition, and the other guy who wants to start a class action lawsuit.